Is Dempster becoming a liability?

[The OtherThommo]

It's a but of a lame bump to be honest...

What's wrong with Dempster being criticised for playing a few average games?

He's been better since then and good on him... Doesn't mean the criticism wasn't warranted. The reality is Dempster isn't is not a part of the future. That means that essentially, if he is not playing well, there is no point to playing him at all.

By playing better, he has removed room for criticism and rightly so

There is another reality - there ain't no future without the present.

[The OtherThommo]

So GWS get 62 x I50 entries and Cameron kicks 5 and it is all Tom Lee's fault.

But

Melbourne only get 55 entries and Hogan kicks 7 and it is nobodies fault.

Just as long as we have cleared that up then. One rule for Tom Lee and one for everyone else.

And, you're suggesting what exactly, Con? That a third tall defender is responsible for a damn good young forward kicking 7?

Not sure I see how that line of argument works. We are clearly using a coupla of older, never been key defenders, to provide time until others develop.

I thought Lee was stiff, too, but really....?

[skeptic]

It's a but of a lame bump to be honest...

What's wrong with Dempster being criticised for playing a few average games?

He's been better since then and good on him... Doesn't mean the criticism wasn't warranted. The reality is Dempster isn't is not a part of the future. That means that essentially, if he is not playing well, there is no point to playing him at all.

By playing better, he has removed room for criticism and rightly so

There is another reality - there ain't no future without the present.

Thank you for isolating that one sentence in the post, and referring to it out of of context...

Please answer the following question. If Dempster was consistently playing poorly... Would you play him?

[stonecold]

Ask Jarrad Waite, Drew Petrie or Ben Brown?????

Sure they would say Dempster is no liability!!!!!

[Bluthy]

Ah yes, the cowardly out of date bump. You soon work out who the gutless hindsighters on the board are - don't have the cahoonas to put anything on the line. Very sad. Jealous that this was a 6 page thread full of interesting and passionate analysis? As opposed to your trolling brain-fart waste of space spew topics "Acres is in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

[stonecold]

Ah yes, the cowardly out of date bump. You soon work out who the gutless hindsighters on the board are - don't have the cahoonas to put anything on the line. Very sad. Jealous that this was a 6 page thread full of interesting and passionate analysis? As opposed to your trolling brain-fart waste of space spew topics "Acres is in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

Or your call to drop Skunky?????

[BigMart]

Dempster is an asset

Professional Athlete
Gun defender

[stonecold]

Dempster is an asset

Professional Athlete
Gun defender

HERE HERE, well said!!!!!

[magnifisaint]

Dempster is a huge liability to the opposition.

[stonecold]

AFL TEAM OF THE WEEK MEMBER Rnd 7

SEAN DEMPSTER (St Kilda) – Continued his late-career purple patch by shutting down the in-form Jarrad Waite (one goal) as the Saints pushed the undefeated Kangas to the brink of defeat.  

If this guy is a liability, carn't wait to see our assests play!!!!!

[Dis Believer]

AFL TEAM OF THE WEEK MEMBER Rnd 7

SEAN DEMPSTER (St Kilda) – Continued his late-career purple patch by shutting down the in-form Jarrad Waite (one goal) as the Saints pushed the undefeated Kangas to the brink of defeat.  

If this guy is a liability, carn't wait to see our assests play!!!!!

Well after handing Waite's assets to him, I think Sean has handed their assets to a few critics of his on here.....

[stonecold]

AFL TEAM OF THE WEEK MEMBER Rnd 7

SEAN DEMPSTER (St Kilda) – Continued his late-career purple patch by shutting down the in-form Jarrad Waite (one goal) as the Saints pushed the undefeated Kangas to the brink of defeat.  

If this guy is a liability, carn't wait to see our assests play!!!!!

Well after handing Waite's assets to him, I think Sean has handed their assets to a few critics of his on here.....

Some Critics on hear might not have any assests to hand over from what I've read!!!!!
;-);-)

[ace]

AFL TEAM OF THE WEEK MEMBER Rnd 7

SEAN DEMPSTER (St Kilda) – Continued his late-career purple patch by shutting down the in-form Jarrad Waite (one goal) as the Saints pushed the undefeated Kangas to the brink of defeat.  

If this guy is a liability, carn't wait to see our assests play!!!!!

Who the hell is assests ?

[The OtherThommo]

It's a but of a lame bump to be honest...

What's wrong with Dempster being criticised for playing a few average games?

He's been better since then and good on him... Doesn't mean the criticism wasn't warranted. The reality is Dempster isn't is not a part of the future. That means that essentially, if he is not playing well, there is no point to playing him at all.

By playing better, he has removed room for criticism and rightly so

There is another reality - there ain't no future without the present.

Thank you for isolating that one sentence in the post, and referring to it out of of context...

Please answer the following question. If Dempster was consistently playing poorly... Would you play him?

Apologies if you took the highlighting to be a cheap shot at your framing of your point, skeptic, but that was not my intention.

It really was a simple reference to what I'd said before - Chips and Shinner are being used in key defence roles, roles they've only come to late on, and are not ideally suited, to protect guys who aren't ready, and give them time to develop. They're dealing with the present so there might be a better future.

And, I still dispute this season's criticism was warranted.

[evertonfc]

Dempster is an asset

Professional Athlete
Gun defender

HERE HERE, well said!!!!!

Can't for the life of me understand the criticism of Dempster.

Reliable. Defensively solid. Uses the ball really well. Still delivering on a weekly basis.

Not the fastest, or the flashiest, but one of the most effective pound-for-pound defenders we've had.

Turns 33 in January and I would expect to see him go around one more time while others bed themselves in.

[Bluthy]

Dempster is an asset

Professional Athlete
Gun defender

HERE HERE, well said!!!!!

Can't for the life of me understand the criticism of Dempster.

Reliable. Defensively solid. Uses the ball really well. Still delivering on a weekly basis.

Not the fastest, or the flashiest, but one of the most effective pound-for-pound defenders we've had.

Turns 33 in January and I would expect to see him go around one more time while others bed themselves in.

He doesn't use the ball well. Doesn't take high-risk high-reward kicks - lets others do it simply because he can't. Is quite slow. Watch how quick Gibson peels off his man to get to the marking contest. Demps doesn't have speed to provide that level of support as we saw with Hogan kicking a bag on Fish.

I love Demps, he is a warrior. I shouldn't have used the word liability. But he is not elite or a gun as some say. This strange glorification also happened to Schneider last year. I think people get scared of the future and start to look back. But we are a much better team without Schneider just as I predicted. We need to become much more attacking from our backline as that is fast becoming the most important facet of good footy teams. We need to look forward, not back.

[The OtherThommo]

Dempster is an asset

Professional Athlete
Gun defender

HERE HERE, well said!!!!!

Can't for the life of me understand the criticism of Dempster.

Reliable. Defensively solid. Uses the ball really well. Still delivering on a weekly basis.

Not the fastest, or the flashiest, but one of the most effective pound-for-pound defenders we've had.

Turns 33 in January and I would expect to see him go around one more time while others bed themselves in.

He doesn't use the ball well. Doesn't take high-risk high-reward kicks - lets others do it simply because he can't. Is quite slow. Watch how quick Gibson peels off his man to get to the marking contest. Demps doesn't have speed to provide that level of support as we saw with Hogan kicking a bag on Fish.

I love Demps, he is a warrior. I shouldn't have used the word liability. But he is not elite or a gun as some say. This strange glorification also happened to Schneider last year. I think people get scared of the future and start to look back. But we are a much better team without Schneider just as I predicted. We need to become much more attacking from our backline as that is fast becoming the most important facet of good footy teams. We need to look forward, not back.

Here we go again, Bluthy.

You say "strange glorification", I say "reasoned recognition".

You also laud your own 'prediction' about the side being better without Schneider, as if you alone spotted the fact Schneider's body was done some years ago. To stick with relativism, Shinner's body is just a tad different to Schneider's, and any attempt to compare the 2 is flat out irrelevant. It is also has the whiff of struggling for confirmation bias. Even Matthew Lloyd has had to admit he struggled with seeing the future, back when he suggested Roo was close to done 5 or 6 years ago.

I'd also suggest the term elite is also damned by its own rhetorical inferences. Who or what is elite? Some players have facets of their game that are elite, yet deficiencies that abound.

If we want to stick with jargon, how about we use "value"? Plenty of players with elite facets get paid as if they approach perfection in every facet....say Kurt Tippet. And, when it comes to "value", we can reasonably preface or append with words like "for money" or "to the team" (even add "at this stage of the team's development").

I reckon Shinner's real "value", with any number of words leading into, or hanging off the back.

It was a bulls*** argument to start with, and neither the efflux of time, nor the jaunty little mea culpas, make it any more reasonable.

[BigMart]

His last 4 B&F finishes and AA recognition seem to point towards gun!!

Rarely beaten

[magnifisaint]

I agree he's a bloody champ in our team. He just keeps getting better. I hope he plays 200 games for the Saints

[Bluthy]

Here we go again, Bluthy.

You say "strange glorification", I say "reasoned recognition".

You also laud your own 'prediction' about the side being better without Schneider, as if you alone spotted the fact Schneider's body was done some years ago. To stick with relativism, Shinner's body is just a tad different to Schneider's, and any attempt to compare the 2 is flat out irrelevant. It is also has the whiff of struggling for confirmation bias. Even Matthew Lloyd has had to admit he struggled with seeing the future, back when he suggested Roo was close to done 5 or 6 years ago.

I'd also suggest the term elite is also damned by its own rhetorical inferences. Who or what is elite? Some players have facets of their game that are elite, yet deficiencies that abound.

If we want to stick with jargon, how about we use "value"? Plenty of players with elite facets get paid as if they approach perfection in every facet....say Kurt Tippet. And, when it comes to "value", we can reasonably preface or append with words like "for money" or "to the team" (even add "at this stage of the team's development").

I reckon Shinner's real "value", with any number of words leading into, or hanging off the back.

It was a bulls*** argument to start with, and neither the efflux of time, nor the jaunty little mea culpas, make it any more reasonable.

Value is indeed a good word to describe Mr Dempster. It's also a word I associate with the Lyon era. Maybe that's why I'm a bit antagonistic towards Demps as I see him very much a product of Lyon's toughness and reliability over skill backline approach. Demps was/is an absolute selfless warrior but lacked good footskills and is a bit slow. I think it was one of the big chinks in our armour during the Lyon premiership tilt. Geelong and Collingwood had better kicking teams, including all their backline players. Their backline could work the ball up the field from the back and didn't need to use their midfield to flood back and work it up.

Whereas we had Demps, Dawson, Gilbo. We worked so hard to win the footy only to turn it over with bombing kicks. Our backline just wasn't enough of a threat. That's why I'm passionate about this. We need all our backline players to be weapons with the ball in their hand. As you get into finals it becomes more and more important with less space of the field with the insane pressure. The ability to keep the footy is vital.

You can keep playing this reliable, experienced backline and they will do a job week in, week out. But where does that get you in the long run? Doesn't have to be a complete revolution, but at least try a bit of an evolution some weeks.

[evertonfc]

This strange glorification also happened to Schneider last year. I think people get scared of the future and start to look back.

That's a bizarre claim if ever I've heard one.

If I was "glorifying" players, I'd be pumping up Sam Gilbert in the other thread. I'm doing the exact opposite.

Schneider? Well, he had a very strong season last year and had a huge impact on Jack Lonie and Jack Sinclair. Statistically, it was his best since 2011 and he was described by Alan Richardson as being "like an assistant coach" out on the field.

I mean, come on. Let's be realistic about our senior players.

They're aging, but if they're giving plenty - look at Roo, Montagna and Fisher - there's no reason to push them to the exit door prematurely. I though we handled the Schneider-to-Lonie/Sinclair transition superbly.

No reason we can't do the same with others.

[#gosaintas]

Uses the ball well???? He is shocking with the ball in hand. Always takes the safe option. Kicks it slow and high and seems to specialize in kicking it OOF. He's a liability with the ball in hand.

[damienc]

Ask Jarrad Waite, Drew Petrie or Ben Brown?????

Sure they would say Dempster is no liability!!!!!

Well said. Sean Dempster is a warrior and a fabulous defender and a great asset still going strong in the twilight of his footy career. Enough said.

[White Winmar]

He's no liability and does his job, week in week out, but I can see what Bluthy is driving at. When you combine the kicking skills of a defensive group, you get a fairly stark reminder of a team's rebounding potential. At various times, we have Geary, Dempster, and Gilbert in the defensive set up. As much as I see the individual assets of each of these players, it would be fair to say that none of them could be described as an elite kick, or even very good. You can carry one in the modern game, whose job is to shut an opposition star down, but you really can't afford to have any more who can't hurt the opposition going the other way. At some point, we're going to have to start replacing the veterans, Dempster, Gilbo, Joey and, gulp, Rooey.

I just hope Webster continues to improve. He has the deadly foot that is needed. I have high hopes for Brandon White as well. Savage appears to be ok in this regard while Goddard looks reasonably reliable and is also a good decision maker. Throw Carlisle in as the main tall and the future starts to take shape. For the time being, though, I think Richo is hamstrung by being caught "between eras". The new is not quite there while the old still has some miles left in it.

[SainterK]

He's only in the side cause he's a coaches pet...

Oh hang on, Ross left didn't he?