Saints v Giants match thread

[kalsaint]

Some of the selections really need to be questioned.

I'm in Richo's bandwagon, but the obsessions with small forwards is astounding.
Lonie - 10 touches, NO TACKLES, No influence. He can't go through the middle at all. At least Sinclair and Minchinton can.

I have no idea why they don't pick Acres.
Didn't play in the VFL so got no game time this weekend.

Talk around that he doesn't meet some team rules, but Jesus Christ, Lonie has provided NOTHING

Nothing against Paddy but in the lead up to that #1 draft pick I was always thinking that #1 and a late second round pick would have been more valuable to building our midfield with taller stocks. I was big on Cripps given his strong inside junior game, height and strength. He would have been one pick and another could have been Bontempelli. I miss the youth experience in Melbourne but review of those videos provided showed Bontempeli time and again working hard, chasing down others and creating plays for the team or taking a good mark. He was th pick from Vic in my opinion. I know hinsight was a wonderful thing but my posts and facebook comments back up my opinion here.

Given we couldn't get the deal for pick 1, I would have gone to the young Bull Petracca. Tall strong midfielder that marks well and kicks goals. Same height as Membrey.

We needed to get a person who could really impact our midfield or at least draw enough attention to allow others to be stronger and more effective.
I think we have had too many shorter players selected. That against the tide of opinion from other clubs. Taller players don't get shorter but smaller players get tired quickly in major contests. A swag of this player type leads to good and bad times but stalls any meaningful finals wins IMO as they cant match the intensity for the same timeframe as athletic talls.

[kalsaint]

GWS woke up to Richo's game plan- you can attack all you like, and if you have control of the ball you look great, but once you lose control of the ball, you're gone, and Richo doesn't seem to value defensive football, and when the midfield is getting totally pantsed, the there's no hope. Poor tackling, terrible skills, and only a massive effort from Roo helping us out. Got a problem with our last quarters, and it's not a fitness thing.

Don't think it's richos fault, 10meter hand passes to the ground, 15m kicks to the ground, 25m kicks to opposition.you can't build any game plan around that.

Agree mostly with Griggsy bar the fact that Richo does seem to play a lot of smaller players and they are the passengers in games we get flogged. We have drafted this issue.

Big issue is our complete inability to handball and kick to a team mate to ensure the team grows in confidence. Someone mentioned that should we call ourselves the Turnovers? No, we should be working out ways to create time to allow the best option for licking and handballs. Smaller players, when getting tired, cant achieve this for a long as bigger players. I look at the Eagles last year and saw this happen all the time. Its called protecting the ball carrier. Neen my trailer here for many years now. It was key to our success in 2009 because even then our licking skills couldn't be called sublime, as several here attest to the Giants.

[kosifantutti]

Geary's manager spun some utter s*** about Geelong being interested in him back when his contract was due and we were dumb enough to sign him until through 2018 on good coin.
Dodoro made up that Hawthorn were interested in Carlisle so our club was dumb enough to give up pick 5 for him.
Our club are suckers and dumb. One flag in 120 years isn't just 'bad luck'.

So Dodoro made up that story about Clarkson turning up at Jake's hotel. Even though Clarkson confirmed it.

[Devilhead]

Taller players don't get shorter but smaller players get tired quickly in major contests. A swag of this player type leads to good and bad times but stalls any meaningful finals wins IMO as they cant match the intensity for the same timeframe as athletic talls.

Tell that to Gary Ablett, Sam Mitchell, Brent Harvey, Paul Kelly, Ben Cousins, Daniel Kerr, Leigh Montagna, Joel Selwood, Dan Hanneberry, Marc Murphy, Scott West, Paul Chapman, Gregg Williams, Brad Johnson, Shane Crawford, Andrew McLeod, Tony Liberatore and ................ Robert Harvey - all players under 6 ft

Don't see many tall midfielders rack up over 40 possessions

[spert]

GWS woke up to Richo's game plan- you can attack all you like, and if you have control of the ball you look great, but once you lose control of the ball, you're gone, and Richo doesn't seem to value defensive football, and when the midfield is getting totally pantsed, the there's no hope. Poor tackling, terrible skills, and only a massive effort from Roo helping us out. Got a problem with our last quarters, and it's not a fitness thing.

Don't think it's richos fault, 10meter hand passes to the ground, 15m kicks to the ground, 25m kicks to opposition.you can't build any game plan around that.

Agree mostly with Griggsy bar the fact that Richo does seem to play a lot of smaller players and they are the passengers in games we get flogged. We have drafted this issue.

Big issue is our complete inability to handball and kick to a team mate to ensure the team grows in confidence. Someone mentioned that should we call ourselves the Turnovers? No, we should be working out ways to create time to allow the best option for licking and handballs. Smaller players, when getting tired, cant achieve this for a long as bigger players. I look at the Eagles last year and saw this happen all the time. Its called protecting the ball carrier. Neen my trailer here for many years now. It was key to our success in 2009 because even then our licking skills couldn't be called sublime, as several here attest to the Giants.

Poor disposal by hand or foot on an ongoing basis is something any coach has to take responsibility for- they are basic football skill errors that are a very big team weakness- the coach has to address the issue. It's not like this has just started happening.
The poor setup in our forward half is another coaching issue- we have three big forwards all trying to compete in the air- no proper hard leads to the player coming down the ground with the ball- that's a real team discipline thing that just did not happen today. I don't think we can play three big forwards on Etihad, though it works better on bigger wider grounds.

[Griggsy]

GWS woke up to Richo's game plan- you can attack all you like, and if you have control of the ball you look great, but once you lose control of the ball, you're gone, and Richo doesn't seem to value defensive football, and when the midfield is getting totally pantsed, the there's no hope. Poor tackling, terrible skills, and only a massive effort from Roo helping us out. Got a problem with our last quarters, and it's not a fitness thing.

Don't think it's richos fault, 10meter hand passes to the ground, 15m kicks to the ground, 25m kicks to opposition.you can't build any game plan around that.

Agree mostly with Griggsy bar the fact that Richo does seem to play a lot of smaller players and they are the passengers in games we get flogged. We have drafted this issue.

Big issue is our complete inability to handball and kick to a team mate to ensure the team grows in confidence. Someone mentioned that should we call ourselves the Turnovers? No, we should be working out ways to create time to allow the best option for licking and handballs. Smaller players, when getting tired, cant achieve this for a long as bigger players. I look at the Eagles last year and saw this happen all the time. Its called protecting the ball carrier. Neen my trailer here for many years now. It was key to our success in 2009 because even then our licking skills couldn't be called sublime, as several here attest to the Giants.

Poor disposal by hand or foot on an ongoing basis is something any coach has to take responsibility for- they are basic football skill errors that are a very big team weakness- the coach has to address the issue. It's not like this has just started happening.
The poor setup in our forward half is another coaching issue- we have three big forwards all trying to compete in the air- no proper hard leads to the player coming down the ground with the ball- that's a real team discipline thing that just did not happen today. I don't think we can play three big forwards on Etihad, though it works better on bigger wider grounds.

If players can't take responsibility to sort out their own disposal there is an issue, they aren't teenagers and this is the top level of the game. Aside from the coach setting time for some drills there's not much more he can do.

[kalsaint]

Taller players don't get shorter but smaller players get tired quickly in major contests. A swag of this player type leads to good and bad times but stalls any meaningful finals wins IMO as they cant match the intensity for the same timeframe as athletic talls.

Tell that to Gary Ablett, Sam Mitchell, Brent Harvey, Paul Kelly, Ben Cousins, Daniel Kerr, Leigh Montagna, Joel Selwood, Dan Hanneberry, Marc Murphy, Scott West, Paul Chapman, Gregg Williams, Brad Johnson, Shane Crawford, Andrew McLeod, Tony Liberatore and ................ Robert Harvey - all players under 6 ft

Don't see many tall midfielders rack up over 40 possessions

I don't believe I was insinuating that we need all +6ft midfielders, just some. We have many less than 6ft and appear to have less than other teams.

[cwrcyn]

Got smashed in clearances in the last. Our lack of leg speed through the middle was telling. There's also the problem of having three small forwards who can't rotate through the midfield at the clearances. Puts quite a burden on a handful of guys. No quick fix there, though. Freeman a long way off, Gresham still a baby, Acres with poor concentration, and Templeton not really an option. Given Weller's form at half forward, why not throw him in there at the centre bounces?

[asaint]

Did anyone see no.16, Nathan Wilson, push Roo from behind, after a marking contest. Roo chased him & threw a punch, I think. There was a small melee after.

It was a fair way away from me, so please feel free to correct my version of events.

[terry smith rules]

Geary is such <<< MOD EDIT >>>

Completely unacceptable comment.. mods?

[asiu]

GWS and Dogs are both a lot closer to a flag than us.

Shirley that was beyond obvious before the bloody pill was bounced to start the game.
... fair dink.

believers in our flag threatening abilities are like young girls thinking that a dodger swells 10 times larger
when the game starts
... expectations meeting reality aint usually pretty.

suck it up , at least that'll be easier.

[Toy Saint]

No idea why Greary is copping so much on this forum, I thought he was quite solid this afternoon. If pressed I could probably name at least half a dozen who were worse than Geary today.

Our forward structure was just disfunctional today. There seemed numerous occasions when our forwards were out of position and didn't present,we kicked the ball to an ubcontested GWS defender. Worse still GWS launched powerfull attacks when clearing the ball (from our forward line), without much forward pressure.

[The_President]

Geary is such <<< MOD EDIT >>>

Completely unacceptable comment.. mods?

It's not unacceptable.

Geary is terribly ordinary player and the only other club he'd get a game for is Carlton

[st.byron]

Geary is such <<< MOD EDIT >>>

Completely unacceptable comment.. mods?

It's not unacceptable.

Geary is terribly ordinary player and the only other club he'd get a game for is Carlton

President, it's not acceptable to call someone a 'spastic'. It's an unacceptable term covered by this rule :
"There will be zero tolerance for teasing, mocking, baiting, belittling, badgering, bullying or any insulting, abusive, sexist, racist, ageist, homophobic, religiously or culturally offensive, or threatening behaviour ......."

It's fine to give a player a serve, but not in offensive language. That term may be acceptable to you, but it's regarded as offensive by many.

Also, I notice you telling another poster to "Shut up" and calling another poster an "idiot".

This is not ok on the forum. Further use of offensive language or insulting other posters will draw a warning.

[Con Gorozidis]

Geary's manager spun some utter s*** about Geelong being interested in him back when his contract was due and we were dumb enough to sign him until through 2018 on good coin.
Dodoro made up that Hawthorn were interested in Carlisle so our club was dumb enough to give up pick 5 for him.
Our club are suckers and dumb. One flag in 120 years isn't just 'bad luck'.

So Dodoro made up that story about Clarkson turning up at Jake's hotel. Even though Clarkson confirmed it.

That is true. Ill concede that one. But it doesn't mean signing Geary up through 2018 was a good idea does it? 2018 is ridiculous. Insane almost. 2017 seems very reasonable.

[kosifantutti]

It doesn't make your theory on Geary's manager right.

[Con Gorozidis]

It doesn't make your theory on Geary's manager right.

Dosnt make it wrong. You think a 2018 contract was sensible???? Yay or Nay? It is objectively foolish. Find me one person who isnt a one-eyed Saint who thinks it is a good idea. Just one.

[BringBackMadDog]

Geary's manager spun some utter s*** about Geelong being interested in him back when his contract was due and we were dumb enough to sign him until through 2018 on good coin.
Dodoro made up that Hawthorn were interested in Carlisle so our club was dumb enough to give up pick 5 for him.
Our club are suckers and dumb. One flag in 120 years isn't just 'bad luck'.

so Clarkson, who admitted he made a personal visit to jake in the USA was just part of the conspiracy to get us to overpay. God you talk some crap sometimes

[Con Gorozidis]

Some perspective - GWS are probably 16-28 months away from a flag.

[Con Gorozidis]

Geary's manager spun some utter s*** about Geelong being interested in him back when his contract was due and we were dumb enough to sign him until through 2018 on good coin.
Dodoro made up that Hawthorn were interested in Carlisle so our club was dumb enough to give up pick 5 for him.
Our club are suckers and dumb. One flag in 120 years isn't just 'bad luck'.

so Clarkson, who admitted he made a personal visit to jake in the USA was just part of the conspiracy to get us to overpay. God you talk some crap sometimes

He was already there. It wasnt a special trip. And we dont know a contract was offered either. For all we know Jake was on the marching powder before the meeting.

Either way giving Geary a contract through 2018 is moronic, foolish, irresponsible and unreasonable. I love how people focus on irrelevant ad hominem things. Find me a single (unbiased) person who thinks contracting Geary through 2018 is even slightly sensible or prudent. Just one.

[samuraisaint]

GWS woke up to Richo's game plan- you can attack all you like, and if you have control of the ball you look great, but once you lose control of the ball, you're gone, and Richo doesn't seem to value defensive football, and when the midfield is getting totally pantsed, the there's no hope. Poor tackling, terrible skills, and only a massive effort from Roo helping us out. Got a problem with our last quarters, and it's not a fitness thing.

Don't think it's richos fault, 10meter hand passes to the ground, 15m kicks to the ground, 25m kicks to opposition.you can't build any game plan around that.

Agree mostly with Griggsy bar the fact that Richo does seem to play a lot of smaller players and they are the passengers in games we get flogged. We have drafted this issue.

Big issue is our complete inability to handball and kick to a team mate to ensure the team grows in confidence. Someone mentioned that should we call ourselves the Turnovers? No, we should be working out ways to create time to allow the best option for licking and handballs. Smaller players, when getting tired, cant achieve this for a long as bigger players. I look at the Eagles last year and saw this happen all the time. Its called protecting the ball carrier. Neen my trailer here for many years now. It was key to our success in 2009 because even then our licking skills couldn't be called sublime, as several here attest to the Giants.

I was at the game today Kalsaint and I would not call the Giants' skills sublime. In fact, many times we turned them inside out. What hurt us was disposal going into the forward half, turning the ball over, one too many handballs to guys surrounded by three players, and players dribbling the ball in the middle of the ground when they were out on their own. Oftentimes we were controlling the ball, turned it over, only to have the Giants lose the ball, then we turn it over again, eventually leading to the Giants having a shot on goal.

I did notice however, that when Hickey went off at the end of the second quarter for a while, the Giants steadied.

[samuraisaint]

Taller players don't get shorter but smaller players get tired quickly in major contests. A swag of this player type leads to good and bad times but stalls any meaningful finals wins IMO as they cant match the intensity for the same timeframe as athletic talls.

Tell that to Gary Ablett, Sam Mitchell, Brent Harvey, Paul Kelly, Ben Cousins, Daniel Kerr, Leigh Montagna, Joel Selwood, Dan Hanneberry, Marc Murphy, Scott West, Paul Chapman, Gregg Williams, Brad Johnson, Shane Crawford, Andrew McLeod, Tony Liberatore and ................ Robert Harvey - all players under 6 ft

Don't see many tall midfielders rack up over 40 possessions

Agree Devilhead, old bean. We have recruited talls - McCartin, Goddard, Carlisle, Hickey, Longer, Lee. We can get the tall midfielder in this years draft when we finish fourth or fifth last anyway. The club are going to attack free agency at the end of the year as well.


Our younger players are still raw - they are going to have bad games. Today could be a result of being robbed last week. We will respond next week against the Dees I'm sure. We always do.

[samuraisaint]

Some perspective - GWS are probably 16-28 months away from a flag.

But they have to actually do it Con. Admittedly they have been gifted 25 of the best players in the country and then have added Callan Ward, Mumford, and Stevie J, which you would assume will put them in the top 4 soon, but the sharks are going to start circling and we'll see how many stay. But I take your point and others should too - they are a seriously talented side, and we matched them in effort for the first three quarters today- after the first ten minutes.
There's also the little thing of sides paying them more respect, and when that happens the element of surprise wears off.

[samuraisaint]

GWS and Dogs are both a lot closer to a flag than us.

Shirley that was beyond obvious before the bloody pill was bounced to start the game.
... fair dink.

believers in our flag threatening abilities are like young girls thinking that a dodger swells 10 times larger
when the game starts
... expectations meeting reality aint usually pretty.

suck it up , at least that'll be easier.

Yep. Spot on Windsister. Bottom five this year - win a third of our matches next year, half the year after that, and hopefully back into the top 4 in 2019. Like we did in 1997, 2004, and 2008 when we re-entered finals after a hiatus. I'm not interested in just making up the numbers. Let's do this rebuild properly.

[saintsRrising]

That Giants Team is dripping in quality. If they do not win a flag eventually I will be surprised.

They have managed their list much better than the Suns. Part of their strategy has been to trade to get even more early picks, and all that adds up to a lot of class. I mean do they even one poor ball user in atht team?

Heath Shaw and Mummy have been great "older" aqusitions for them and SJ is just basically a free pick up that can really ice the opportunities that all that other talent feeds him.


Against that we can only be competitive if we are at the top of our game and make the most of our opportunties. That was not the case with a lot of our players quite flat today and errors abounding.

Special mention to Hickey who continues to grow as our No1 ruck. Lee in only his second game in the seniors in his role was impressive too I thought.
Our midfield was outgunned in number and quality. Heath Shaw way too good for our fleet of small forwards.