Is Dempster becoming a liability?

[dragit]

At least you put yourself on the line bluth... And also returned to the scene of the crime

[saintsRrising]

Dempster bar one kick... was incredible yesterday. he is a general back there. I've never worried about him.

If you mean that last kick, I suspect that he was stuffed and so just could not get the normal force into his kick making it drop way short of his intended target. Case of mind being willing, but the body not.

[The OtherThommo]

At least you put yourself on the line bluth... And also returned to the scene of the crime

Maybe Richo had visited the crime scene too, d, given his comments in the post match members' message.

[The OtherThommo]

Demps was great yesterday - made me look a little silly a couple of his trademark key marks in the second half were brilliant. But its an on-going debate that's not decided by one game when everyone played great. Lets see how we go getting it out against hawks suffocating zone. Robbo's injury opens up a spot for Goddard or Lee anyway.

As previously mentioned, Bluthy, I'd also like to see Lee get a chance.

But, I'm not sure it would be for Roberton against the Dorks - bit skinny for biggish key forwards, just ATM, the Dorks. It seems to be a resting ruckman (Fisher, mostly, I would think) Schoenmakers and a bit of Gunston who floats up and back. Nor sure we'd want to go with 3 bigger types - we might be a bit vulnerable. Although, (and just to drive home the odd previous point!) given Dempster is so versatile (e.g. Bruest), maybe Lee could be given Shoenmakers.

Another route for Lee might become available. If Roo and/or Paddy don't come up (and I doubt the medicos would fancy them having to fly to play, if any hint of lingering effects), then maybe Lee's opportunity might come anyway - he does have an ability to go forward or back.

[Harvey To Hayes]

He's one of the most dangerous forwards in the comp, probably the hardest to match up on because of his versatility and explosiveness... He kicked 5 goals the week before and only 2 against us when the dogs dominated the midfield and had 58 i50's.

I think if we had a player anywhere remotely better than Dempster to play on stringer then we should play him. Dempster is the least of our problems at this stage... In our best few this year.

Well Webster actually picked Stringer up when he pushed higher up but lets just give Dempster all the credit because apparently he is now an irreplaceable AA defender that if we left out would make us lose by 100+ pts . The Dempster glorification is getting out of hand. He has been a utility player his whole career - only in the last few has he transitioned into a genuine defender where his experience and play reading has been handy. A lot of his marks (he only had 5 last week and 4 the week before) are uncontested taken going back on the last line of defense. Handy, but not threatening, attacking intercepts marks at CHB that Goddard is capable of. Dempster doesn't rack up huge possessions, doesn't want to kick anymore because he struggles to hit targets. He's become extremely risk averse and its hurting our rebound.

We rely too much on Webster and Savage for rebound and moving it out of the back and its predictable. If you want the team to show dare and risk, you need to but your balls on the line at the selection table and give them tools to do it otherwise its empty rhetoric.[/quote]

Most of Dempster's marks are uncontested? How many St Kilda games have you actually watched? He takes so many contested intercept marks its ridiculous

[samuraisaint]

I think Dempster and Fisher have both well and truly earned their positions in the side, but Geary's disposal and a few skill errors by Gilbo over the past year or so certainly had me thinking that having Lee and perhaps Delaney in to play on Cloke would've been a good idea, if for no other reason than it is important for the team if we can see what Lee is capable of playing a key defensive post as we gave up a high pick to draft him to the club. This is about individual player and team development not bagging the players. Dempster in particular is a stunning defensive mark. The best we have in the side at present.
For the first time in years, Cloke was beaten in a game against us yesterday, Gilbo was excellent and kicked a goal reminiscent of the one he kicked in the third quarter of the 2010 GF, and Geary stuck mainly to dishing out handballs to advantage, so perhaps that is the coach's directives. With the unfortunate injury to Roberton though, there is a chance for Lee to come into the side, especially as AR said that Hugh is still building his fitness at Sandy for the short term future.

[Trev from the Bush]

Dempster bar one kick... was incredible yesterday. he is a general back there. I've never worried about him.

That one kick came when I thought his leg was going to fall off in the last quarter. His second half was phenomenal and cramp and fatigue were setting in across the ground in the last quarter. Luke Dunstan could barely break into a jog and was one of just a handful of rotations in the final quarter.

Dempster was just playing keepings-off, Billings was one of the few with any run left in him and was the key go-to man coming out of defence.

And, no, Shaun is NOT becoming a liability. Keep this thread running for a few years, though, and you will be proved right.

[saynta]

The op was extremely disrespectful to a club great.

[Sainternist]

Granted, Dempster wasn't great in the first two rounds, but he was terrific yesterday. Absolutely dour in defense. Hopefully back to the Dempster of old.

[Bluthy]

Most of Dempster's marks are uncontested? How many St Kilda games have you actually watched? He takes so many contested intercept marks its ridiculous

Maybe get your facts right before you throw such pathetic shade - Dempster 2016 marks 15 contested marks 3 (average of 1 a game - he averaged 1.3 last year)

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-s ... ter?advv=Y

Do you actually go to games or do you just watch on tv? You're getting confused with the marks he takes where he is backing back with the flight of the ball. He does that well reading the flight but they are not contested marks. Dempster is 191 cm so he's not going to be taking the number of contested intercept marks that Carlisle and eventually Goddard will be capable of with their height.

[Bluthy]

The op was extremely disrespectful to a club great.

You lecturing about respect is like <edited by mods> lecturing about racial equality.

[saynta]

The op was extremely disrespectful to a club great.

You lecturing about respect is like Hitler lecturing about racial equality.[/quote ]

Whatever. I'm right though and you ended up with mud on your silly face.

[Bluthy]

Whatever. I'm right though and you ended up with mud on your silly face.

I do have a silly face but there is no mud on it. I posed a question - its an open-ended up question for which there is really no right answer (although obvs Richo is happy with Demps in the team). We had an older team than Collingwood on Sat - are we playing a young enough team to benefit us down the track? How will we go getting through Hawks ruthless zoning this week - Dempster and Geary both struggle to get the ball out of the back well. Everyone played well last week- the test is when other players are down do guys that struggle to use the ball well become a liability for us? Lets see how we go this week shall we?

[The OtherThommo]

Whatever. I'm right though and you ended up with mud on your silly face.

I do have a silly face but there is no mud on it. I posed a question - its an open-ended up question for which there is really no right answer (although obvs Richo is happy with Demps in the team). We had an older team than Collingwood on Sat - are we playing a young enough team to benefit us down the track? How will we go getting through Hawks ruthless zoning this week - Dempster and Geary both struggle to get the ball out of the back well. Everyone played well last week- the test is when other players are down do guys that struggle to use the ball well become a liability for us? Lets see how we go this week shall we?

Oh, come on, Bluthy - are you trying to suggest your 'question' was devoid of all rhetoric? Without bothering to go back and look, if that claim were to stand up, you'd win a gong for being the first person ever, in the history of fora on the interwebs, to have done so. If so, well done, and help yourself to the till.

OTOH, I also get the feeling you need to paddle harder.

But, as someone said earlier, you do put yourself forward, so saulgood.

[The Fireman]

Dempster is a bloody good footballer. Anyone who bags this bloke is a peanut.

[Bluthy]

Oh, come on, Bluthy - are you trying to suggest your 'question' was devoid of all rhetoric? Without bothering to go back and look, if that claim were to stand up, you'd win a gong for being the first person ever, in the history of fora on the interwebs, to have done so. If so, well done, and help yourself to the till.

OTOH, I also get the feeling you need to paddle harder.

But, as someone said earlier, you do put yourself forward, so saulgood.

Well TOT I am humble enough to realise that high level footy selection and list management is a complex equation where I may not have all information required or capable of doing the sums properly. Hence I try not to make too definitive statements but it doesn't stop me exploring these issue. If you don't think these are some of the questions that would get thrown around in the inner sanctum then you are in lala land.

It's been an age old question in sport since cavemen were kicking a rock around in the CRL (Caveman Rock League) - do you play the young player who is more risky but with more future or the older guy with experience and will be more solid. People who simply say "Dempster is great!" completely miss the point. You get something by playing him, and you lose something by playing him. Even in that first half last week he did some fumbly handballs under pressure that he tends to do these days with his reaction speed diminished. He'll be under pressure this week for sure. Lets see how he goes under that acid.

[BigMart]

Dempster is an asset

[Bluthy]

Dempster is an asset

But how much has he been depreciated?

[BigMart]

From AA to experienced, solid citizen who does his job most weeks. How many of them do we have?

He's in our top 6 players. Don't believe me, ask some of the players. Dempster is only behind Joey, Roo and probably equal with Sam F as far as respect goes.

Armo and Jack are our only mid - age players who even compare to the veteran group

[dragit]

The op was extremely disrespectful to a club great.

You lecturing about respect is like Pol Pot or Robert Mugabe lecturing about racial equality.

Stick to Cambodian & Zimbabwe genocide gags bluthy

[The Fireman]

The op was extremely disrespectful to a club great.

You lecturing about respect is like Pol Pot or Robert Mugabe lecturing about racial equality.

Stick to Cambodian & Zimbabwe genocide gags bluthy

I'm still in shock that Bluthy thinks I'm not funny

[The OtherThommo]

Oh, come on, Bluthy - are you trying to suggest your 'question' was devoid of all rhetoric? Without bothering to go back and look, if that claim were to stand up, you'd win a gong for being the first person ever, in the history of fora on the interwebs, to have done so. If so, well done, and help yourself to the till.

OTOH, I also get the feeling you need to paddle harder.

But, as someone said earlier, you do put yourself forward, so saulgood.

Well TOT I am humble enough to realise that high level footy selection and list management is a complex equation where I may not have all information required or capable of doing the sums properly. Hence I try not to make too definitive statements but it doesn't stop me exploring these issue. If you don't think these are some of the questions that would get thrown around in the inner sanctum then you are in lala land.

It's been an age old question in sport since cavemen were kicking a rock around in the CRL (Caveman Rock League) - do you play the young player who is more risky but with more future or the older guy with experience and will be more solid. People who simply say "Dempster is great!" completely miss the point. You get something by playing him, and you lose something by playing him. Even in that first half last week he did some fumbly handballs under pressure that he tends to do these days with his reaction speed diminished. He'll be under pressure this week for sure. Lets see how he goes under that acid.

A bump from "lala land".

I missed "lala land" last week - misattributed pejoratives rarely make good paddles, Bluthy. Of course the questioning is constant, but I'm very comfortable they don't take long to reach the obvious consensus in Dempster's case. "Asked and answered"in very short order, based on another age old criterion - performance.

[loris]

From that great saving mark in the early stages of the the first quarter I think Dempster showed the courage and determination that was going to be the hallmark of the Saints play for the rest of the day. Dempster stood up and 'said' ........ this is the standard boys!

[Bluthy]

The questions keep getting asked as our younger players develop. If Webster is right how do we fit him in next week - does Lee stay? Remember we've got Goddard we will want to get some AFL games into this year. Dempster was a bit dodgy in the first quarter but as solid as a rock after that - couple of brilliant contested marks. His experience and play reading is a huge asset no doubt - that over rides any weakness in his kicking at the moment.

[samuraisaint]

Lee stays in.
Dempster is the best defensive mark we have in the side. He stays.