Two way street

[tony74]

It's not just the supporters who are hurting, and wondering what went wrong on Saturday night. I can assure the players, coaches and club in general were devastated in the performance on the weekend. The players were as low as I can remember. It was quite ironical that Roo was nearly our best player and to be brutally honest he perhaps may not have played if it had been any other match.
No one can quite work out what went wrong, perhaps the coaches planned too deeply ( a lot of work went into this game ), and maybe the players tried just too hard. Who knows, but I will reiterate , the coaches and players really hurt.
They've all moved on though. Good training session today ( a couple a bit sore but I won't name them ). Lots of young Saints supporters for the clinic afterwards who all met their heroes and brightened everyone up with their contagious enthusiasm.
Remember a week is a long time in football.

[Myron Gaines]

How's Freeman going mang?

[tony74]

How's Freeman going mang?

Full training, no strapping.

[Myron Gaines]

Nice. Close to playing VFL?

[Griggsy]

It would have been a huge reality check for the players, I'm sure they must have mentioned last years comeback at half time to fire up, then followed it up with a 2 goal 2nd half. Hopefully they use this as a motivator to work harder and not use it to get down on themselves and their ability.

[chook23]

It's not just the supporters who are hurting, and wondering what went wrong on Saturday night. I can assure the players, coaches and club in general were devastated in the performance on the weekend. The players were as low as I can remember. It was quite ironical that Roo was nearly our best player and to be brutally honest he perhaps may not have played if it had been any other match.
No one can quite work out what went wrong, perhaps the coaches planned too deeply ( a lot of work went into this game ), and maybe the players tried just too hard. Who knows, but I will reiterate , the coaches and players really hurt.
They've all moved on though. Good training session today ( a couple a bit sore but I won't name them ). Lots of young Saints supporters for the clinic afterwards who all met their heroes and brightened everyone up with their contagious enthusiasm.
Remember a week is a long time in football.

Thanks Tony74

But it can not explain or be used as an excuse for the terrible disposal/lack of spread(speed) and decision making.

We were just so poor in these areas.

[Playon]

Whats up with Goddard Tony? Surely it cant be related to heat stroke from one match weeks and weeks ago. Wouldn't he of been fine the following day? It seems like there's more to it.

[chook23]

Whats up with Goddard Tony? Surely it cant be related to heat stroke from one match weeks and weeks ago. Wouldn't he of been fine the following day? It seems like there's more to it.

it was well before Xmas

the cynic in me is telling me he may have been suffering similar to Rice and McKenzie

[tony74]

Nice. Close to playing VFL?

Don't think it will be this week. Perhaps a half the following week, but it will be in the development league.

[Myron Gaines]

Nice. Close to playing VFL?

Don't think it will be this week. Perhaps a half the following week, but it will be in the development league.

Cheers Big Tone.

[Playon]

Whats up with Goddard Tony? Surely it cant be related to heat stroke from one match weeks and weeks ago. Wouldn't he of been fine the following day? It seems like there's more to it.

it was well before Xmas

the cynic in me is telling me he may have been suffering similar to Rice and McKenzie

Well its not like he was lost in the bush for 2 months so it makes me wonder whats going on

[tony74]

Whats up with Goddard Tony? Surely it cant be related to heat stroke from one match weeks and weeks ago. Wouldn't he of been fine the following day? It seems like there's more to it.

Missing two weeks pre season takes Four weeks to get it back. Nothing sinister. It will all be about match ups. Darcy Moore? But I doubt it.

[MC Gusto]

Tony

The dropping of acres seemed right out of order and not in keeping with the way the coach usually operates.

Any thoughts on this? Was it really required for him to be singled out? Surely after what was his best game he deserved another go and some continuity?

Just felt really at odds with previous decisions and richos style in general

I feel we lost this match before we even started with really poor selections

[Playon]

Whats up with Goddard Tony? Surely it cant be related to heat stroke from one match weeks and weeks ago. Wouldn't he of been fine the following day? It seems like there's more to it.

Missing two weeks pre season takes Four weeks to get it back. Nothing sinister. It will all be about match ups. Darcy Moore? But I doubt it.

Well forever just seems like forever, will be good to see him back

[BigMart]

The dropping of Acres was bizarre, has to more to it??

Gresham retained??

[ROLS-LEE]

Whats up with Goddard Tony? Surely it cant be related to heat stroke from one match weeks and weeks ago. Wouldn't he of been fine the following day? It seems like there's more to it.

Missing two weeks pre season takes Four weeks to get it back. Nothing sinister. It will all be about match ups. Darcy Moore? But I doubt it.

Well forever just seems like forever, will be good to see him back

2 weeks

[fugazi]

The dropping of Acres was bizarre, has to more to it??

Gresham retained??

yep had his best game for the club ....then dropped?

[spert]

Good report Tony74, but any team I played in was always devastated when they lost what they thought they could have won, and in reality the Saints have not won a lot of games over the last couple of seasons, and have been totally uncompetitive in some, and now put in a totally uncompetitive effort in a game which should have seen us fight it out for Roo. I'm starting to hear the same old excuses about outside run hurting us and stopping the ball coming back our of our forward line etc etc, seems to a standard Richo response- how about getting a game plan and structures together to address these issues fellas!

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

No one can quite work out what went wrong, perhaps the coaches planned too deeply ( a lot of work went into this game ), and maybe the players tried just too hard. Who knows, but I will reiterate , the coaches and players really hurt.

Do people forget that the Dogs were a couple of kicks away from a Semi Final birth last year? And we've already seen they've gone up a gear or two this year so far. What I'm saying is: as much as the Saints were disappointing, we were never a realistic shot to win this game. It's no shock that we got pantsed; the Dogs are at a different point in their development.

[saintsRrising]

No one can quite work out what went wrong, perhaps the coaches planned too deeply ( a lot of work went into this game ), and maybe the players tried just too hard. Who knows, but I will reiterate , the coaches and players really hurt.

Do people forget that the Dogs were a couple of kicks away from a Semi Final birth last year? And we've already seen they've gone up a gear or two this year so far. What I'm saying is: as much as the Saints were disappointing, we were never a realistic shot to win this game. It's no shock that we got pantsed; the Dogs are at a different point in their development.

The question is not have we forgotten that Dogs are good and improving (we have not), nor that we lost to them (as all but the most "rose tinted glasses brigade" would have have expected to lose), BUT very much HOW we lost.

One can lose, but we were absolutely pitiful with ball use and decision making and often when under little pressure as well. If we roll that type of game out we will lose to everyone including Dons.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

The question is not have we forgotten that Dogs are good and improving (we have not), nor that we lost to them (as all but the most "rose tinted glasses brigade" would have have expected to lose), BUT very much HOW we lost.

One can lose, but we were absolately pitiful with ball use and decison making and often when under little pressure as well. If we role that type of game out we will lose to everyone including Dons.

I agree it was indeed pitiful, but we're still looking at a side who rely on a few players (mostly who are 30+) to play a great game in order to be able to have the chance to beat anyone. Riewoldt was our clearly our best player on saturday. That says a lot about him, but even more about where our list is at.

A more pertinent discussion would be: how long will it be until the match committe and coaching staff start to think about really clearing out some of the dead wood in this side? Until now they've backed in the likes of Geary, Gilbert, Roberton (Ray last year) etc to provide solidity and to make young players "earn" their spot in the side. But when you watch games like saturday night you question whether that approach is worth it.

[BackFromUSA]

Tony74. they don't know why or how they lost? Seriously. OK without getting too complicated ...

WB had a new zone set up when the ball went into their forward line with effectively super (speedy) sweepers ready to close in and solid above their head sweepers at the back of the zone for high balls. beacuse of their speed they can close in quickly on:

1) short sharp handballs
2) short 10o'clock a nd 2 o'clock kicks

What did we do all night? We took the run and gun approach and failed and then we tried the short kicks and failed then we tried the long kick and had minor success.

Zones are great defence because unless teams are drilled against them then they make players think on the spot - not our greatest attribute and 75% of the time the zone wins.

To beat a zone like WB have you have to first take the zone out of shape!

How? You play the outnumber game. They place a zone - where they have 4-6 you double the number in a cluster and then the defence HAS TO KNOW they can kick to the cluster and get the outnumber and WIN 75% of the time.

Soon the zone gets changed in shape to minimise the outnumber which opens it up for switching / short kicks and run and gun. But only after thet zone has been taken out of shape regularly to overcome the cluster.

Our issue was we just went run and gun because it worked last year.

But this year they are stronger, fitter, faster and better drilled as a zone.

We have to be better drilled on ways to beat a zone defence.

If I picked this up after 20 minutes of footy - what the hell were our so called coaches doing?

Send them all off to basketball and NFL coaching seminars so they can learn all about zones and beating them!

Perhaps the Saints should invest in a NFL coach to start teaching our coaches how to coach and drill rolling plays like this?

[dragit]

Oh god, now I'm terrified bfusa!

[Saint wagga]

"Missing two weeks of pre season = 4 weeks to catchup" I've never heard such a complete load of Balone rhetoric. How would missing a couple of weeks back in November/December (not even due to injury) have any bearing on a young 20 year old playing footy, even at Vfl level in early April!! Bollocks! Makes zero sense. A guy pings a hammy in mid February and he's still back by round 1. There was more too it for sure, heat stroke isn't even that big a deal if recognised and treated quickly which it was.

[Con Gorozidis]

Tony74. they don't know why or how they lost? Seriously. OK without getting too complicated ...

WB had a new zone set up when the ball went into their forward line with effectively super (speedy) sweepers ready to close in and solid above their head sweepers at the back of the zone for high balls. beacuse of their speed they can close in quickly on:

1) short sharp handballs
2) short 10o'clock a nd 2 o'clock kicks

What did we do all night? We took the run and gun approach and failed and then we tried the short kicks and failed then we tried the long kick and had minor success.

Zones are great defence because unless teams are drilled against them then they make players think on the spot - not our greatest attribute and 75% of the time the zone wins.

To beat a zone like WB have you have to first take the zone out of shape!

How? You play the outnumber game. They place a zone - where they have 4-6 you double the number in a cluster and then the defence HAS TO KNOW they can kick to the cluster and get the outnumber and WIN 75% of the time.

Soon the zone gets changed in shape to minimise the outnumber which opens it up for switching / short kicks and run and gun. But only after thet zone has been taken out of shape regularly to overcome the cluster.

Our issue was we just went run and gun because it worked last year.

But this year they are stronger, fitter, faster and better drilled as a zone.

We have to be better drilled on ways to beat a zone defence.

If I picked this up after 20 minutes of footy - what the hell were our so called coaches doing?

Send them all off to basketball and NFL coaching seminars so they can learn all about zones and beating them!

Perhaps the Saints should invest in a NFL coach to start teaching our coaches how to coach and drill rolling plays like this?

Wow. What an impressive post. You certainly know your stuff. Interesting reading. It might take me a while to figure it out. But nice work. I have read it twice already. I think I'll need a white board....