McCartin - The biggest recruiting disaster of all time

[longtimesaint]

Imagine being a lead up forward at StK for 300 games... Now that's an effort

On Paddy
He hasn't shown an elite attribute as yet, he is slow and has little endurance. But he looks a competitor in the air, and is sometimes clever. Let's hope Petracca does not turn out a matchwinner.

Judd, Bartel, Stevie J, Jack Riewoldt/James Frawley, Dangerfield/Rioli, Shuey/Trengove, Darling, Bontempelli
All went within a pick or two after
Ball, Clarke, Maguire, Armo, McEvoy, Lynch, Cripps, billings

Plus we traded out picks
16 Pittard (Fyfe three after that)
12 & 13 2012 jaksh and Lonergan
Pick 5 Parish

Not Parish. As has been stated multiple times.

Geez,
Can we start a thread stating that we couldn't have drafted Parish as he was gone by the time our pick (which turned into pick 6) came..

This can't be right as Essendon chose Parish with pick 5 which they got from us.
Surely if we had kept pick 5 we could also have recruited Parish.

[Myron Gaines]

Imagine being a lead up forward at StK for 300 games... Now that's an effort

On Paddy
He hasn't shown an elite attribute as yet, he is slow and has little endurance. But he looks a competitor in the air, and is sometimes clever. Let's hope Petracca does not turn out a matchwinner.

Judd, Bartel, Stevie J, Jack Riewoldt/James Frawley, Dangerfield/Rioli, Shuey/Trengove, Darling, Bontempelli
All went within a pick or two after
Ball, Clarke, Maguire, Armo, McEvoy, Lynch, Cripps, billings

Plus we traded out picks
16 Pittard (Fyfe three after that)
12 & 13 2012 jaksh and Lonergan
Pick 5 Parish

Not Parish. As has been stated multiple times.

Geez,
Can we start a thread stating that we couldn't have drafted Parish as he was gone by the time our pick (which turned into pick 6) came..

This can't be right as Essendon chose Parish with pick 5 which they got from us.
Surely if we had kept pick 5 we could also have recruited Parish.

You are wrong.

Pick 1 - Carlton - Weitering
Pick 2 - Brisbane - Schache
Pick 3 - Sydney - Mills (BID BY MELB MATCHED)
Pick 4 - Melbourne - Oliver
Pick 5 - Essendon - Parish
Pick 6 - Essendon - Francis (THIS IS STK ORIGINAL PICK)

[MC Gusto]

I felt paddy played well - especially the first half. Had 5 or so strong marks at that stage. Played better than Boyd in reality. If he'd had the ball coming in like Boyd did he would've hit the scoreboard hard.

He is the least of our worries

Our trouble lies in the midfield

Where are newnes, dunstan, acres, ross et al taking us? Longer term I mean? Are these guys premiership players? I don't see it. Whilst they will continue to improve they just don't have the class of a bont, stringer billings etc.
The dogs have a number of players you could safely bet will be A grade. We have one

[samoht]

Let's be philosophical about this ...
Young "saint Christian" (Petracca) doesn't have the same ring as young "demon Christian".

... and Parish the thought (last draft), our recruiters would have still gone for whoever they went with. They always get it right (and might yet, who knows? - but it doesn't look good at this stage).
Parish is averaging 23 possessions and 7 tackles - in his first 2 games.

[cwrcyn]

To me McCartin looks no worse than Tom Boyd. Seriously, Boyd is getting paid monstrous money and he's been in the system a year longer than Paddy. Don't write off a young key forward after half a dozen games. There have been quite a few who have taken a while to get going. Boyd did almost nothing last year, but no-one wrote him off.

The Bulldogs are flying, and we butchered the ball so badly going forward that a young key forward in his 7th game was unlikely to show a great deal

[stkfc1]

I felt paddy played well - especially the first half. Had 5 or so strong marks at that stage. Played better than Boyd in reality. If he'd had the ball coming in like Boyd did he would've hit the scoreboard hard.

He is the least of our worries

Our trouble lies in the midfield

Where are newnes, dunstan, acres, ross et al taking us? Longer term I mean? Are these guys premiership players? I don't see it. Whilst they will continue to improve they just don't have the class of a bont, stringer billings etc.
The dogs have a number of players you could safely bet will be A grade. We have one

Newnes is a beauty. He's a lock. We cant have Ross and Dunstan in the same team. Too similar. One goes out either if Freeman turns out to be ok or Minch or Eli get going.

[cwrcyn]

Our midfield is a far bigger concern, with only one player with real breakaway speed from the stoppages. As for our kicking, well it's the usual suspects like Geary, Dempster, Gilbert, and Weller.

If we replace three of those guys with players who can kick well, it will make a huge difference.

[samoht]

We cant have Ross and Dunstan in the same team. Too similar.

Exactly ... Armo, Ross and Dunstan are all dour, hard-at-it midfielders. We needed a Parish, a Milera, a Motlop, a Hill or a Rioli along the way - at least a couple of these type of dashing playmakers - but our recruiters thought better of it.

We've also got 4 ruckmen - only one of which is ok around the ground.

Maybe our problem is we've recruited the wrong recruiters.

[cwrcyn]

Long term, who can we be genuinely confident about being in this team a being a solid contributor every week?

Ross...who knows
Dunstan..who knows
Billings...yes
Newnes...yes
Lonie...yes
Acres...who knows
Lee...no
Murdoch...no
Shenton...no
Minchington---unlikely
Webster...maybe
Roberton...probably
Savage...yes
Goddard...maybe
McCartin...maybe
Wright...probably not
Longer...probably
Gresham...who knows
Curren...no
Bruce...yes
Hickey...probably
Sinclair...maybe
Templeton..who knows
Pierce... highly unlikely

That's 24 players, and only 5 that I am absolutely sold on. Most of the others could go either way, with a few who just won't make it

[samoht]

Our recruiters themselves may be the recruiting disaster. Doubling up, even quadrupling up on the same (dour) type of midfielders (and do we need 4 ruckmen?), with no sense of team balance.

[BigMart]

Ok

Let's not get hung up on Parish... It's only an example

Let's go with Francis.... That's not the point.
Point is, drafting out High end DPs is a risk

And our top end recruiting has been ordinary in hindsight .... Hopefully Paddy doesn't add to that.

[BigMart]

But

It is way too early to measure that

Real value of a mid cannot be measured until year 3 (freaks aside)

KPPs until year 4-5

[Myron Gaines]

Our recruiters themselves may be the recruiting disaster. Doubling up, even quadrupling up on the same type of midfielders (and do we need 4 ruckmen?), with no sense of team balance.

I think you're onto something. I've got NFI why we didn't pick Darcy Tucker with our first pick we got in the Carlisle deal. He's extremely quick, excellent lateral movement in traffic & a deadly left boot. He's exactly what we needed. Gresham better be something....

[Joffa Burns]

I went last night with the view of watching Paddy closely as I haven't been overly impressed by what he had shown to date and I don't like knocking young kids trying to find their way in the game.

The concerns I saw with Paddy:
- Not quick
- Not agile
- Not an endurance athlete
- Not a big spring or jump
- second efforts were non existent

You don't have to be all of those, I don't expect another Rooey, it would be like Cam White and Steve Smith replacing Warnie. I did hope he had something elite that made him stand out.

Difference with Boyd or Patton is they are 200cm and can jump, Paddy is 194 so a small KPP in this era who lacks the athletic gifts you look for when hoping for upside. No doubt he monsters the back men in juniors, but he has to have more than that at AFL level.

I was hoping for Pettracca just from watching his Dangerfield like highlights, really I have no clue about recruiting, but I've watched footy for a long time and I hope I am wrong but I am not seeing anything in Paddy that excites or shows why he was taken at #1.

[saintkid]

I went last night with the view of watching Paddy closely as I haven't been overly impressed by what he had shown to date and I don't like knocking young kids trying to find their way in the game.

The concerns I saw with Paddy:
- Not quick
- Not agile
- Not an endurance athlete
- Not a big spring or jump
- second efforts were non existent

You don't have to be all of those, I don't expect another Rooey, it would be like Cam White and Steve Smith replacing Warnie. I did hope he had something elite that made him stand out.

Difference with Boyd or Patton is they are 200cm and can jump, Paddy is 194 so a small KPP in this era who lacks the athletic gifts you look for when hoping for upside. No doubt he monsters the back men in juniors, but he has to have more than that at AFL level.

I was hoping for Pettracca just from watching his Dangerfield like highlights, really I have no clue about recruiting, but I've watched footy for a long time and I hope I am wrong but I am not seeing anything in Paddy that excites or shows why he was taken at #1.

Well said. My old man thinks the same. Rooey showed agility and quickness early. He tells me that Plugger at the very beginning had everyone excited as a raw 16 year old with his glimpses of speed and raw power. McCartin's first efforts to him last night were like a 2nd or 3rd effort to Roo in the twilight of his career.

[Joffa Burns]

Well said. My old man thinks the same. Rooey showed agility and quickness early. He tells me that Plugger at the very beginning had everyone excited as a raw 16 year old with his glimpses of speed and raw power. McCartin's first efforts to him last night were like a 2nd or 3rd effort to Roo in the twilight of his career.

Yep, a few games were all that were needed to tell those two would be stars, but we can't expect Paddy to match those two who would be all time top five Saint players.

In the 2nd quarter there was an exchange on the wing opposite to the bench side of the ground where Rooey ran from half back, Paddy was in the play at half forward, the ball went forward and Rooey competed in the forward pocket while Paddy was still standing at half forward and had barely moved.

I don't know team structure but I do know Paddy stopped after the ball left his zone many times last night where Rooey and Bruce do not stop.

[saintkid]

Well said. My old man thinks the same. Rooey showed agility and quickness early. He tells me that Plugger at the very beginning had everyone excited as a raw 16 year old with his glimpses of speed and raw power. McCartin's first efforts to him last night were like a 2nd or 3rd effort to Roo in the twilight of his career.

Yep, a few games were all that were needed to tell those two would be stars, but we can't expect Paddy to match those two who would be all time top five Saint players.

In the 2nd quarter there was an exchange on the wing opposite to the bench side of the ground where Rooey ran from half back, Paddy was in the play at half forward, the ball went forward and Rooey competed in the forward pocket while Paddy was still standing at half forward and had barely moved.

I don't know team structure but I do know Paddy stopped after the ball left his zone many times last night where Rooey and Bruce do not stop.

Yes we remember that passage of play too. Hope Paddy proves his worth as a No.1 pick but he showed very little raw excitement last night looking at his game objectively.

[The Recruit]

Imagine being a lead up forward at StK for 300 games... Now that's an effort

On Paddy
He hasn't shown an elite attribute as yet, he is slow and has little endurance. But he looks a competitor in the air, and is sometimes clever. Let's hope Petracca does not turn out a matchwinner.

Judd, Bartel, Stevie J, Jack Riewoldt/James Frawley, Dangerfield/Rioli, Shuey/Trengove, Darling, Bontempelli
All went within a pick or two after
Ball, Clarke, Maguire, Armo, McEvoy, Lynch, Cripps, billings

Plus we traded out picks
16 Pittard (Fyfe three after that)
12 & 13 2012 jaksh and Lonergan
Pick 5 Parish

Not Parish. As has been stated multiple times.

Geez,
Can we start a thread stating that we couldn't have drafted Parish as he was gone by the time our pick (which turned into pick 6) came..

This can't be right as Essendon chose Parish with pick 5 which they got from us.
Surely if we had kept pick 5 we could also have recruited Parish.

Seriously the Parish for Carlise thing is ridiculous......we got Carlisle instead of these players

Aaron Francis
Jacob Hopper
Callum Ah Chee
Sam Weiderman
Harry Mackay
Wayne Milera
Charlie Curnow
Matthew Kennedy
Eric Hipwood
Daniel Rioli
Harrison Himmelberg
Tom Doedee

NOT DARCY PARISH! We had 0% chance of getting him

[Milne]

I think Paddy is a confidence player. I hope it's not in the Rhys Stanley mould though.

[Con Gorozidis]

Our recruiters themselves may be the recruiting disaster. Doubling up, even quadrupling up on the same type of midfielders (and do we need 4 ruckmen?), with no sense of team balance.

I think you're onto something. I've got NFI why we didn't pick Darcy Tucker with our first pick we got in the Carlisle deal. He's extremely quick, excellent lateral movement in traffic & a deadly left boot. He's exactly what we needed. Gresham better be something....

Tend to agree. I found it odd we went past Tucker who sames a safe bet with pace and a nice kick - just what we wanted at 14. Do Richo and Elshaugh like players that remind them of themselves? I bloody hope not because if that is the case we are in some strife. It seems our recruiters dont like anyone who is both fast and can kick it well. If you are slow and kick it (Billings and Lonie) you are ok - or fast but cant kick (Wright) you are ok but we just CANT have someone who can do both. Not on my watch! It is against team rules.

[Dr Spaceman]

Yes the Parish stuff just keeps coming up and some people just don't get it. Maybe it's the Academy thingy that's confusing it for them.

Let's simplify it a bit and simply ignore the bidding process.

In 2015 the Bombers finished one place below us and had the pick just before our one. In the Carlisle deal they secured up our pick. So now they had their initial pick, for finishing below us, and the next pick which had been ours (for finishing above them)

With their first pick they took Parish. This was the pick they always had. With their next pick, which originally was ours, they took Francis.

As many have stated, Parish was not available at the pick we had prior to the commencement of the trading period.

Hence we could not have got him regardless.

Move on

[matrix]

Someone start a thread on how we couldnt pick him

[MC Gusto]

i think some are being incredibly harsh on paddy.

he's played what 8 games?

KPPs typically take how long?

Even hogan had 2-3 seasons in the ressies before he showed anything...Tom Hawkins? how long did he take? 5 seasons?

Paddy has shown more than boyd for mine...give the kid (and he is a kid) a break.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think Paddy is the least of our problems right at this minute.

[matrix]

Agreed
Played stuff all, got stuff all delivery, had how many afl pre seasons?..only just got the diabetic thing 100% correct so has been playing in ressies etc with stuffed blood sugar level
So in reality land he has had nott much prep