Can We Win More Than Six Games in 2016?

[To the top]

Point taken.

But as we sit here today we have a chronic lack of AFL quality depth. - and, today, that is telling.

With the "B" team named, we would look to McKenzie, Wright, Ross, Sinclair, White and Rice, who still all have their careers ahead of them, to address that depth over coming seasons - and, hopefully, some others may put their hands up.

Plus we will continue to Draft - and Trade and seek Free Agency players.

So the work continues (as it always should - Birss, Polo, McQualter - the list unfortunately goes on and on = big problem as the work stopped) because, even allowing for a 100% strike rate with the half dozen named there are still yawning gaps - including structural.

We have (still) gone along the path of recruiting players who could not command regular spots with their previous Clubs (Delaney, Savage, Weller, Membrey) and that is why each of those players is in my "B" side.

In my view that is NOT the model.

We have mature age recruits from State Leagues in Lee and Shenton and we have the "exotic" in Holmes and Baker-Thomas.

So the result is we have a fractured list of bits and pieces which was indicative of a lack of vision over the past years - and which Richardson is on board to address - not overnight but by process.

So now we have Goddard, Billings, McCartin, Acres, Lonie, Dunstan and Gresham - and we have Roberton, Carlisle, Freeman, Bruce, Hickey and Longer so we have been better at "picking the eyes out of" other Clubs and targetting.

So the worm is turning.

But, as we sit here on the cusp of Season 2016, we still have a problem with depth - including particularly structural.

Look at Delaney, Lee, Coughlan and Payne as our alternate "spine"

[CQ SAINT]

I find that if you take away the number of wins and focus on the probability of Billings, Dunstan, McCartin, Goddard, Newnes, Ross, Acres, Lee, Weller, Sinclair, Lonie and even Gresham improving on what they did last year things look a lot brighter. I dont care how many we win for the year. I wanna see 3 wins in a row in the secong half of the season. Id like to see an all out offensive gameplan in the first half and then a high pressure defensive style in the second half. If this team can do that then we would have taken a huge step forward. If all the above mentioned improve 20 percent on last year could see 8-10 wins. On the weekend there was a huge attack bias in the game plan. North took a punt and stayed behind St.Kildas momentum looking for easy turn overs and rebound footy. Good on North. But in the first half there was plenty to like about St.Kilda at times. Mark my words. This squad is only 50 games and the best free agent Tall defender available in 2018 from playing deep finals. (I look at Goddard and see a powerful third tall forward that would thrive in between Roo/McCartin & Bruce) When it happens it will happen quickly. Dream result - Roo plays 350 in 2018 Grand final win. Make it happen!

[ripplug66]

Wins matter a little of course. If we didn't win a game this year that would be a very bad thing but what matters more is the B&F count. If Rooy, Fisher, Joey and Dempster are still in the top 8 positions that means we are relying on them much to much and it also means when they retire we wont improve as quick as we think because we have lost a very good player. Its times for the likes of Newnes, Longer, Hickey, billings, Bruce and a few others to get their names in the top 5 or 6. If they don't the rebuild will take longer than we hope.

[samuraisaint]

Point taken.

But as we sit here today we have a chronic lack of AFL quality depth. - and, today, that is telling.

With the "B" team named, we would look to McKenzie, Wright, Ross, Sinclair, White and Rice, who still all have their careers ahead of them, to address that depth over coming seasons - and, hopefully, some others may put their hands up.

Plus we will continue to Draft - and Trade and seek Free Agency players.

So the work continues (as it always should - Birss, Polo, McQualter - the list unfortunately goes on and on = big problem as the work stopped) because, even allowing for a 100% strike rate with the half dozen named there are still yawning gaps - including structural.

We have (still) gone along the path of recruiting players who could not command regular spots with their previous Clubs (Delaney, Savage, Weller, Membrey) and that is why each of those players is in my "B" side.

In my view that is NOT the model.

We have mature age recruits from State Leagues in Lee and Shenton and we have the "exotic" in Holmes and Baker-Thomas.

So the result is we have a fractured list of bits and pieces which was indicative of a lack of vision over the past years - and which Richardson is on board to address - not overnight but by process.

So now we have Goddard, Billings, McCartin, Acres, Lonie, Dunstan and Gresham - and we have Roberton, Carlisle, Freeman, Bruce, Hickey and Longer so we have been better at "picking the eyes out of" other Clubs and targetting.

So the worm is turning.

But, as we sit here on the cusp of Season 2016, we still have a problem with depth - including particularly structural.

Look at Delaney, Lee, Coughlan and Payne as our alternate "spine"

Disagree about Weller and Savage - I think we did well there. It's a shame we won't have Carlisle this year, or see much of Freeman - they both could have made a difference. Having said that, the fact that Essendon lost 12 players and Port lost two gives us a chance of a couple of wins we may not have had, if the suspensions hadn't occurred.

[Bluthy]

We have (still) gone along the path of recruiting players who could not command regular spots with their previous Clubs (Delaney, Savage, Weller, Membrey) and that is why each of those players is in my "B" side.

In my view that is NOT the model.

These guys were a bit of a one-off due to the huge hole in our list between veterans and babies. I don't think they cost us much in picks at all - they were basically free. We were in desperate need of some big bodied guys in that 50 game mark who had some sort of AFL tank to have some sort of competitiveness on the field in Richo's first year. We had Armo, Steven, Geary and then daylight to the babies. Fisher and Gilbo didn't play much and without Delaney to play on the gorrilla forwards we genuinely might have had 200+ plus losses. That would have been disastrous and pushed the club into a crisis situation where it is harder to make cold hard decisions with the media hounding you all the time.

It also gave Richo some leverage and authority about who to play - he didn't need to play guys like Saunders, Curren, Minch, Sippos if they weren't where he needed them to be. For a coach authority is everything. From what I heard these new guys, on their second and possibly last chance to make in AFL, did everything right re training and conditioning and helped drive a high standard. Delaney is struggling but Savage, Weller and Membry still have a solid chance to be in the best 22. We need to see if they will be more than necessary placeholders. Bruce has been a huge success.

[Sainternist]

Much like last year, this season will be a bit of a slog. 6-8 wins sounds the most realistic, in terms of expectations. Anything more is a bonus. Anything less is a reason for some concern. Having the luck of keeping the team closest to full-strength will make it easier to for us to read what is in store from here on in. In many ways, it's a very important year for our course of development. I'm quietly confident there'll be many positives to come out of it.

[spert]

The Trial game was what is was.

To go back to my earlier "contribution", from the "A" Side, we were missing Fisher, Roberton, Carlisle, Riewoldt, Armitage, Montagna, Mc Cartin, Freeman, Gilbert, Steven and Longer (some totally, some from very early in the game and others from into the second quarter and from half time).

Granted we will not see Carlisle until 2017 - but he is on our LIst hence his inclusion.

What the second half would, to me at least, confirm is exactly what I presented in my earlier post.

We continue to have a chronic lack of AFL quality depth.

Into that NM appear to have played their strongest side which is probably (apart from Hawthorn) the oldest side in the AFL - with their mature bodies and experience including playing together.

So the NM agenda (team gelling) was the exact opposite to ours (viewing players for potential).

That said, as the season winds on, I would trust that our young legs and talent can get NM later in the season when they wilt because old age catches up with them and they hit the proverbial wall - and crack the sooks.

It has to happen sometime!

We had a lot of those "A" players in last season and didn't set the world on fire. We lack quality across the lines, and no Carlise who would strengthen us, but Freeman is unknown, McCartin has done nothing in the seniors yet, and Longer is a plodder. We lack a quality "middle 6". If we go up the ladder this season, then I will regard Richo as the real thing as a coach. And I do hope we climb up the ladder.

[ripplug66]

The Trial game was what is was.

To go back to my earlier "contribution", from the "A" Side, we were missing Fisher, Roberton, Carlisle, Riewoldt, Armitage, Montagna, Mc Cartin, Freeman, Gilbert, Steven and Longer (some totally, some from very early in the game and others from into the second quarter and from half time).

Granted we will not see Carlisle until 2017 - but he is on our LIst hence his inclusion.

What the second half would, to me at least, confirm is exactly what I presented in my earlier post.

We continue to have a chronic lack of AFL quality depth.

Into that NM appear to have played their strongest side which is probably (apart from Hawthorn) the oldest side in the AFL - with their mature bodies and experience including playing together.

So the NM agenda (team gelling) was the exact opposite to ours (viewing players for potential).

That said, as the season winds on, I would trust that our young legs and talent can get NM later in the season when they wilt because old age catches up with them and they hit the proverbial wall - and crack the sooks.

It has to happen sometime!

We had a lot of those "A" players in last season and didn't set the world on fire. We lack quality across the lines, and no Carlise who would strengthen us, but Freeman is unknown, McCartin has done nothing in the seniors yet, and Longer is a plodder. We lack a quality "middle 6". If we go up the ladder this season, then I will regard Richo as the real thing as a coach. And I do hope we climb up the ladder.

So you say some players aren't mush good but you need Richo to get us up the ladder this season before you rate him the real thing. You rate SW as a good coach but he coached us to 5 wins in his last season with hugely better list. The logic is lost on me. Care to explain.

[To the top]

In 2015 we were "middle list competitive" with the better performances being against WB (one win, one loss) and Geelong (a draw).

In a couple of games our goal kicking did us no favors.

Then we fell away badly after the Geelong draw - against teams who were in September contention (including interstate).

In the absence of Hickey and Longer, we played Holmes which was romantic but effectively meant we played one player down - and we were exposed accordingly.

Plus the likes of Billings, Lonie, Mc Cartin, Acres and Dunstan had been "put away".

So, I tend to look at the performances up until the last couple of weeks.

And add (including because of experience and the development we look for) Goddard, Billings, Mc Cartin. Acres, Freeman, Lonie, Hickey, Dunstan, Gresham and Longer.

So when you respond that we had "a lot of A Grade players last year and did not set the world on fire", we were competitive in most games until the final couple of weeks, A Grade is relative to the St Kilda List as it currently stands and, as always, we look for an increasing presence courtesy of those named and their development and improvement (including impacting on the result of games acknowledged by Brownlow Votes - so performing to a level which is among the best 3 on the field).

Once we see that they can perform to a level which is among the best 3 on the ground, we are on our way.

[Playon]

I can't see why we can't. The expectations will be that we improve. The younger guys, have beefed up a little or trimmed down or both, they have more experience than what they had this time last year and if you look at last years NAB cup we looked crap then too, yet when the season proper started it was a whole new ball game. There's nothing to indicate how we will go yet and we wont know for some time.
So long as we don't go back to having 14 players out, which we've either been lucky or the medical teams been great, I'm certainly hoping for improvement.
Lets not forget a full season on young players takes it's toll and some if not all should improve on their endurance from last year,

[WellardSaint]

I keep thinking back to the big losses against Hawks and Swans.
Our guys stopped playing accountable footy and let the opposition run rings around them.
When you're being totally outplayed, you hope the guys do the basic essential things like chasing properly, manning up, etc.
Instead, you get Robertson gifting 2 goals to the Swans.
The team is as far away from top 8 as it's ever been.

[borderbarry]

The leaders board at the Saints has changed. No longer is it Roo and Joey showing the way. At last years brownlow it was Jack Steven and Armo with 12 votes each. Jack Billing with his brilliant game against the Bulldogs earned two votes. We did better in the Brownlow than we have for a while, and you must remember it was our first season without Lenny.

[Bluthy]

People have to keep remembering that 75 game/3-4 seasons game mark. Its really hard for players to be consistent until they have that number under their belt and have a strong AFL body and tank and have ingrained muscle memory from playing. So much of the best young talent we have on the list is under that. Hence this year they probably won't be tearing it up (Billings excepted who looks a freak). I think by 2018 we will have a core list in that 75+ game mark who are damn talented, know each others game well and know Richo's structures well. Then you'll see some serious action. In the mean time there will be lot of experimenting which makes it hard to get cohesion.