Ruck Training

[BigMart]

Firstly, I gather you knew exactly with whom I was referring... And you were right!!!

There you go, it wasn't that hard was it??? Just some common sense to apply, that's all ...

You made an inference
"I reckon you.... "
I replied
"You reckon wrong"

Wasn't that cryptic... No lengthy quoting required

[ripplug66]

Bm for some reason I cant quote but I will be polite enough to use your name. Yes I guessed it was me but that isn't the point. Surely as a child your parents tiold it was polite to use names and as a teacher surely you use names. It seems arrogant that you expect people to guess who you are writing to and lets face it, it takes no more than half a second.

And I reckoned right IMO. To much proof to think otherwise.

[BigMart]

Not sure you're either one of my kids or one of my students?!

Not sure I like the way you go about it... So being polite ito you is not my first inclination

Politeness can be shown on many fronts... Many of which you are wanting....

Please stop takng the moral high ground, on your high horse.... I am worried you'll fall off...

[BigMart]

What proof

Can't say that without example... Can you?

[Bluthy]

Hickey would currently be categorised as a "Ruckman". Do you disagree with this?

Currently yes.

However the Saint's Coaching Panel have categorised him as a "Ruck-Forward" in terms of our next potential finals team and are endeavouring to manfucture him into one.

Not sure he will ever become good enough to be a forward who relieves in the ruck (ie where you would pick him on being a good enough forward in his own right). But yes can see him being good enough to be a genuine ruck-forward (and indeed ruck!!).

The days of playing two players in the one team that can only play ruck are long gone and will not return without drastic rule changes.

Longer does not look capable of being anything but a ruckman. This makes the playing of Hickey more difficult for when Hickey rucks, what do you do with Longer?? Personally at presenyt I prefer Hickey to Longer as I value his overall game more, but our coaching panel looks to favour Longer as the No1 ruck.

I'm just trying to create some differentiation in footy lingo for how we refer to the two different set ups currently used in AFL:

1) "Playing two ruckmen" - its accepted in the footy media that this means you are playing two guys who have both come through as ruckmen even if one is currently playing a big chunk forward eg. Hale and McEvoy.

2) Ruckman and a piecemeal ruck reliever eg. Longer and Bruce

I think Hickey could take a real leap this year as it sounds like he's finally had a full injury free preseason. I think he could be a good main ruck as he's got a good leap, or take a step as a forward. Longer as young guy doesn't look out of place against the best rucks and I still think has potential to improve around the ground including marking on the forward line. Again a reminder, these big guys take a while to get their huge limbs all coordinated. Longer is currently the more physical and aggressive, Hickey the more technical and athletic. Its a great situation to have the two types.

[Gershwin]

I'd like to see Hickey as our lead ruckman as I think he is better than Longer around the ground. But we really don't have a ruckman/forward so we should play to our strength and play Longer off the bench to relieve Hickey. It will only use up 4 interchanges (one per quarter) and will hopefully give us an advantage over a side that plays a piecemeal ruck reliever.
It will allow Bruce to play solely as a tall forward.

[BigMart]

Hickey is not preferred because we really struggle at stoppage when he is in the ruck... He gets monstered and the opposition ruckman give the opposition an armchair ride. He is a 94kg ruckman with poor strength. He even gets buffeted of the ball at VFL level. He is better around the ground, but his primary job of giving us first use so we can set up at stoppage is not good enough.

With Longer we are around break even....

The only ruckman we have that gave us a clear win was Holmes in one of his games last year. Geelong?

[ripplug66]

Hickey is not preferred because we really struggle at stoppage when he is in the ruck... He gets monstered and the opposition ruckman give the opposition an armchair ride. He is a 94kg ruckman with poor strength. He even gets buffeted of the ball at VFL level. He is better around the ground, but his primary job of giving us first use so we can set up at stoppage is not good enough.

With Longer we are around break even....

The only ruckman we have that gave us a clear win was Holmes in one of his games last year. Geelong?

BM I'm sure I have read you say many times hit outs mean nothing. matter of fact I'm certain. Have you changed your mind on this. That's ok if you have but at the moment that is the last thing I remember you saying.

And I think Longer was preferred for 2 reasons, neither which you mentioned. Hickey was injured at the start of the year so Longer had first crack and when Hickey was fit enough he is the only one of the two who could possibly play forward. Don't think it had anything to do with what you said. How come the year before they preferred Hickey if what you said was the case?

[BigMart]

Didn't say hit outs

[ripplug66]

Didn't say hit outs

No you didn't but Longer averaged 9 possessions a game and Holmes got a massive 7 in that Geelong game. Hardly stats that would influence a game especially when neither are really taking any contested marks. 2 plus 2 equals 4 on this occasion.

And again thanks on not using a name. Do you just say hey you when you want a student to listen to you?

[BigMart]

Hickey played intra club... 4 weeks before R1

Two of the NAB Cup games and R1 at Sandy...

Only an AFL injury??

2014
Hickey 6 games
Longer 16 games
2015
Hickey 11 Games
Longer 18 games

[ripplug66]

Hickey played intra club... 4 weeks before R1

Two of the NAB Cup games and R1 at Sandy...

Only an AFL injury??

2014
Hickey 6 games
Longer 16 games
2015
Hickey 11 Games
Longer 18 games

You win. Its important for you.

[BigMart]

Getting personal now... That ain't like you... Haha

When I am in conversation with a student, no I don't have to say his name before every comment... I credit them with the fact they are not stupid. I generally use their name to get their attention... I have certainly got your attention.

Hickey averaged 1 more possession per game...
Half the hit outs
But more importantly longer conceded under half the hit outs to advantage to the opposition Ruckman.

I probably win... Because longer has played more games for StK in the last two years and less games for sandringham

[ripplug66]

I think all 4 ruckmen would be getting plenty of ruck training at the moment. Not sure who the ruck is but unless one can go forward and play good enough as a forward then only one of the 4 will regularly.

Signed
Charlie Sheen.

[loris]

I think all 4 ruckmen would be getting plenty of ruck training at the moment. Not sure who the ruck is but unless one can go forward and play good enough as a forward then only one of the 4 will regularly.

Signed
Charlie Sheen.

Mr Sheen! Mr Sheen! Now wasn't there a song/advert jingle about Mr Sheen? If I recollect it aptly goes something like this:

"Oh Mr Sheen, Oh Mr Sheen, you do the biggest wax and polish ever seen"

[BigMart]

Were you talking to me?

No name... No quotes?!

HOW THE F#*% ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO/WHAT/WHERE YOU WERE REFERRING.??????

Please... Some manners.

[Gershwin]

I'm actually trying to enjoy this discussion about our Ruck strategy but maybe Saintsational is not about that anymore. So much crap posted on here these days. C'est la vie.

[Gershwin]

I'm actually trying to enjoy this discussion about our Ruck strategy but maybe Saintsational is not about that anymore. So much crap posted on here these days. C'est la vie.

[BigMart]

Gershwin

Why not enter the discussion about Ruck Strategy?

And add some points... People will discuss ruck with you...

[To the top]

I'll buy in - at the risk of introducing a contributor who may not be overly welcome to most!

I was of the view that, in McEvoy's last season at St Kilda, Hickey had surpassed McEvoy by that season's end - in regards being able to contest because he could actually jump, being able to cover territory, being able to compete at ground level and being able to catch the ball (which was a McEvoy strength - and Hickey was better).

So the trading of McEvoy did not surprise me.

McEvoy v Hickey = Hickey.

Then, of course, we recruited Longer (who I understand Hawthorn had their eye on pre McEvoy being offered).

Since that time, Hickey has been restricted by ailments (and I think they may have sent him off somewhere re his knee problems) and has had restricted pre-seasons and interrupted seasons.

Hopefully, with a full pre-season, and fit and well, Hickey shows the ability he has.

Because he has plenty of ability.

Central to the come back win v WB was Hickey, including being just too tall and too good at grabbing the ball overhead (and competing at ground level), particularly as the game wore on.

We used him thru the wings and we used him up forward (including rucking in the forward line).

Longer is an old style, bullocking ruck who is ultra honest. He did become more effective in terms of taking some "grabs" around the ground in 2015 - but how many times was the opposition ruck BOG or near to it including because the opposing ruckman worked forward (and where, eventually, Carlisle and Goddard being 2 big bodied defenders will come into that equation)?

So you use Longer to do what he does (exclusively ruckwork) and you use Hickey to do what he does (ruckwork and around the ground and forward mis-match option because the guy can catch the ball and he can follow up at ground level).

They should compliment each other.

In terms of Pierce I have not seen anything of him - but would assess a work in progress given he has not appeared at AFL level as yet.

Holmes - romantic, but still has 95% of the journey to travel.

[BigMart]

I have a vastly different POV

At 25 this year, and still wafer thin... Hickey better show something. He played 20 out of 22 games last season... And three preseason games, this bulldust about him being injured or unfit, is not quite accurate... Is it?!

[Bluthy]

I have a vastly different POV

At 25 this year, and still wafer thin... Hickey better show something. He played 20 out of 22 games last season... And three preseason games, this bulldust about him being injured or unfit, is not quite accurate... Is it?!

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-02-0 ... lmost-over

Well this article had him at close to 100kg and that was a year ago. He's been carefully nursed as he's had an injury plagued career so far. If you can't do a full preseason its going to impact on you, especially rucks who need to lug a big frame all over the ground. He had a couple of games last year where he was close to brilliant, dominating around the ground. Hickey is fine - no need to panic. I think he's got great potential. We're building good coverage into all positions. We're not leaving things to chance this time. We are going for depth.

[WinnersOnly]

If Hickey can get his knees right he will have a much bigger impact this year IMO. On another note a poster on BF said Lewi PIERCE sometimes goes to his gym and is just lifting 60kgs on a bench press..I know he has had back injuries but that is pathetic for a professional footballer, is it any wonder he still has spagetti arms. Simply not working hard enough!

[Wrote for Luck]

not sure how accurate that could be the pictures I have seen of him recently his arms are actually pretty big!

[BigMart]

Hickey looks like a coat hanger .... Seriously.

I stood next to him countless times last year in the VFL games.

Shaun McKernan pushed him around.