Carlisle ban?

[BigMart]

BTW

Who said he'll stay for6-7 years... He has a 3 year contract in front of him ATM

[White Winmar]

Never wanted him. Said so right at the start. I'm not even concerned if he never plays a game for the Saints.

I hope Tom Lee will be able to step up this season, surprise the doubters and add something to our backline and Flakey Jakey is confined to the rubbish bin of poor recruiting made by the Saints.

Saints often make poor recruiting decisions and possibly will continue to do so........... just the modus operandi of Saints throughout its history. Get used to it folks!!!!

I still believe FJ will play good footy for us, Loris, but I have to agree about Tommy Lee. What an opportunity for the boy. Same for Delaney. A chance to revive his career. Out of crisis comes opportunity!

[SMS]

Tom Lee Delaney are not flag CHBs. Carlisle is. Get over this he will be our CHB in 2017. Get behind him support him.

[ripplug66]

Never wanted him. Said so right at the start. I'm not even concerned if he never plays a game for the Saints.

I hope Tom Lee will be able to step up this season, surprise the doubters and add something to our backline and Flakey Jakey is confined to the rubbish bin of poor recruiting made by the Saints.

Saints often make poor recruiting decisions and possibly will continue to do so........... just the modus operandi of Saints throughout its history. Get used to it folks!!!!

I still believe FJ will play good footy for us, Loris, but I have to agree about Tommy Lee. What an opportunity for the boy. Same for Delaney. A chance to revive his career. Out of crisis comes opportunity!

Unfortunately I heard bad things about Lee's attitude a couple of weeks ago and I rate the source very highly. You would think this opportunity will see a change in attitude.

[WinnersOnly]

I find it comical that people still believe the St Kilda recruitment team have served the club well regarding the transaction involving Carlisle.

I like a number of other posters are livid that our club could fall for this and be bastardised at the trade table by a club that has a history of exactly that. The recruitment team and club had taken huge strides in drafting over the past couple of seasons, but this has placed them back with the plethora of past St Kilda list/trade debacles.

Lets not forget that Elshaugh was a past Essendon player and it seems he has also been enchanted by his old club. For me this trade will remain as bad as the Lovett trade and casts the current recruitment team in a very poor light in line with past incompetent regimes.

If Carlisle plays 100 games for St Kilda and wins a best and fairest (for example), would you still hold the same views?

Yes, it's hypothetical, but so is the outcome you describe above. It remains possible that Carlisle will be a successful player for St Kilda in the long-term.

Surely it's far too early to judge the first season of a 6-7 year recruit?

The Michael Gardiner trade was a disaster for us after year 1 - he didn't play a game. After Round 14, 2009 it was the greatest trade in the game's history. Do you not see the need to take a long term view to drafting and trading?

And are you really trying to intimate that Tony Elshaug has some bias towards the club he played for 25 years ago which would impact upon the performance of his job as our recruiting and list manager?

How exactly was St Kilda "bastardised" by Essendon when the possibility of Carlisle's suspension was known to the public?

Giving up Picks 5 and 24 for a guy who wont play this year, has a history of poor off field decisions and knee problems. Carlisle has as much chance of playing 100 games for our club as Nick Coughlan our rookie has. Chances are with his background and personality the wheels will fall off this year and he will never play again which I wont be sorry to see, as we should not have gone anywhere near him and backed in drafting quality kids.

Michael Gardiner cost us stuff all not our future and draft position eg Parish & Collins who could have played for 12 years not 5-7 if any.

And don't give me that we would have chose Gresham at 5 and White at 24 because that is absolute rubbish and spin the club are tyring to sell. How is it there were 17 other choices before we selected Gresham and no one chose to take him. The reason being that no other club rated him any higher!

[Sainternist]

This is certainly a big set-back, but no where near as catastrophic as the Lovett trade in 2010. Heck, at least we don't have a premiership window beckoning to us this year.

As someone said earlier in the thread, let's just suck it up. We're not alone in being agreived by it since Melbourne, Port and the Bulldogs have also been inconvenienced. Time will tell on whether or not we got ripped off completely.

[loris]

This is certainly a big set-back, but no where near as catastrophic as the Lovett trade in 2010. Heck, at least we don't have a premiership window beckoning to us this year.

As someone said earlier in the thread, let's just suck it up. We're not alone in being agreived by it since Melbourne, Port and the Bulldogs have also been inconvenienced. Time will tell on whether or not we got ripped off completely.

Note it's the lesser clubs (tho Port are now becoming financially viable) that have been suckered into recruiting Essendon players with potential bans hanging over their heads.

[kosifantutti]

I find it comical that people still believe the St Kilda recruitment team have served the club well regarding the transaction involving Carlisle.

I like a number of other posters are livid that our club could fall for this and be bastardised at the trade table by a club that has a history of exactly that. The recruitment team and club had taken huge strides in drafting over the past couple of seasons, but this has placed them back with the plethora of past St Kilda list/trade debacles.

Lets not forget that Elshaugh was a past Essendon player and it seems he has also been enchanted by his old club. For me this trade will remain as bad as the Lovett trade and casts the current recruitment team in a very poor light in line with past incompetent regimes.

If Carlisle plays 100 games for St Kilda and wins a best and fairest (for example), would you still hold the same views?

Yes, it's hypothetical, but so is the outcome you describe above. It remains possible that Carlisle will be a successful player for St Kilda in the long-term.

Surely it's far too early to judge the first season of a 6-7 year recruit?

The Michael Gardiner trade was a disaster for us after year 1 - he didn't play a game. After Round 14, 2009 it was the greatest trade in the game's history. Do you not see the need to take a long term view to drafting and trading?

And are you really trying to intimate that Tony Elshaug has some bias towards the club he played for 25 years ago which would impact upon the performance of his job as our recruiting and list manager?

How exactly was St Kilda "bastardised" by Essendon when the possibility of Carlisle's suspension was known to the public?

Giving up Picks 5 and 24 for a guy who wont play this year, has a history of poor off field decisions and knee problems. Carlisle has as much chance of playing 100 games for our club as Nick Coughlan our rookie has. Chances are with his background and personality the wheels will fall off this year and he will never play again which I wont be sorry to see, as we should not have gone anywhere near him and backed in drafting quality kids.

Michael Gardiner cost us stuff all not our future and draft position eg Parish & Collins who could have played for 12 years not 5-7 if any.

And don't give me that we would have chose Gresham at 5 and White at 24 because that is absolute rubbish and spin the club are tyring to sell. How is it there were 17 other choices before we selected Gresham and no one chose to take him. The reason being that no other club rated him any higher!

So we've given up picks 5 and 24 for Carlisle (which is wrong by the way) and you are hoping he never plays for us just to justify your opinion.

We need more supporters like that.

[Sobraz]

#standbyjake

Will be a 150 game star for our club and own the backline from 2017 onwards.

I am willing to cop him being out for 2016, in order to see the bombers go down as they have today. And they will continue to spiral as the season is a write off on the field.

Surely Hurley would already be looking at his option for next year?!

A great day for sport today, while Jake has the opportunity to re-do his career as a great Saint. Win-win.

As for Delany and Lee having the opportunity to step up - More chance of Watson keeping his brownlow!!

[LondonSaint]

For f0ck sake, the sky is falling. Let's all slag the club.

We took a calculated risk. (By the way Hawthorn was willing to give up 2
First round picks) And it didn't work out 100% like we wanted.
The initial decision was rejected by the count. How would Port feel by
giving up 2 first round picks for Ryder? Or Bulldogs for
Or Melbourne for Melksham?

And we didn't give up pick 5 and 25 for Carlisle. We got Pick 14 and Carlise.
Pick 14 is used on Gresham who some recruiters rates higher than or at least equal to Parish as a midfielder.
Effectively we gave up around a pick 15 for Carlise.

Yes Carlise will now miss 2016. But it's complete different to wasting pick 16 for
Lovett who never played a game for us. It's not ideal but we just need to get on
with it. We still have Goddard/Fisher/Delaney/Lee/Coughlan as back man for this year.

So cheer up guys. Carlise was never going to be the saviour who will single handedly
make us a contender. He is just a piece of the puzzle. And he will be back next year.

[To the top]

Some of the comments of some on here are astounding (which is nothing new!!!).

Simply, Carlisle will be available for a full pre-season leading into 2017, so it is up to the professionalism of the Club to ensure he is supported during the period until then - as certain WAFL Clubs have indicated they will support players they have recruited from Essendon.

And, no doubt, other AFL Clubs who have recruited "want away" players formerly on Essendon's List will do.

You do not cut off your nose despite your face.

Didn't we learn from Lovett, pre judging him in a civil matter where he was found not guilty to the ultimate detriment of the player and the Club (and we badly needed pace and outside creative run which he would have addressed)? Look at North Melbourne and Daw as a comparative. Look at the support for Milne during his trials and tribulations.

The poor recruiting was Peake, Birss, Gardiner (from Geelong) et al.

There is a raft of them others can add to.

THAT was very, very poor recruiting with no consideration for the future.

Then there were the young players, drafted but who never got an opportunity - and left including leaving the game.

THAT was very, very poor recruiting, with no consideration for the future.

BOTH of those recruiting events cost us premierships.

Given the problems we have had with the structure of our defence, which has been "monstored" over recent seasons including by other teams pushing their ruckmen forward (remember?), who exactly is in the frame to be drafted/recruited for the 2017 season and fill a defensive KPP as an alternate to the 198cm Carlisle and to support the emerging 196cm Goddard?

No doubt, given the belief the impacted players have shown in Little and Hird and their pronouncements that the players would suffer no penalty (so who was for this cheating?), I would imagine that several are totally disallusioned with Essendon and may wish to join the "want aways" at the first available opportunity.

I would be picking the eyes out of the Essendon List by reviewing Contract termination dates - including any player looking to terminate a Contract because of the reputation of the Essendon FC (and Essendon would be hard pressed to stand in their way including because standing in their way will drag the matter on further and further - in fact, Essendon should offer releases to any player who does not want to be further associated with Essendon as a gesture of goodwill).

Carlisle can assist in this process - because he is a former team mate.

Essendon (and the AFL) are rightfully stuffed and cooked.

St Kilda are not.

The ONLY Essendon (and AFL) person to come out of this with reputation in tact is Evans who, just maybe, and you can speculate, upon learning of the cheating, wanted the Club to own up - and then came Little and the rest is history.

The NRL Club similarly blighted put its hand up - and the matter is now past history for them, the players accepting 3 month bans courtesy of owning up.

Essendon's and the AFL's solicitors are going to be very, very busy - and their bank balances will grow at a rate of knots.

Then there is revenue, and sponsors wanting to have nothing to do with such a tainted brand.

Plus, to finish, as with Armstrong, Watson's Brownlow Medal is GONE.

Who was the Runner-up, because they are now a Brownlow Medalist.

[ripplug66]

Some of the comments of some on here are astounding (which is nothing new!!!).

Simply, Carlisle will be available for a full pre-season leading into 2017, so it is up to the professionalism of the Club to ensure he is supported during the period until then - as certain WAFL Clubs have indicated they will support players they have recruited from Essendon.

And, no doubt, other AFL Clubs who have recruited "want away" players formerly on Essendon's List will do.

You do not cut off your nose despite your face.

Didn't we learn from Lovett, pre judging him in a civil matter where he was found not guilty to the ultimate detriment of the player and the Club (and we badly needed pace and outside creative run which he would have addressed)? Look at North Melbourne and Daw as a comparative. Look at the support for Milne during his trials and tribulations.

The poor recruiting was Peake, Birss, Gardiner (from Geelong) et al.

There is a raft of them others can add to.

THAT was very, very poor recruiting with no consideration for the future.

Then there were the young players, drafted but who never got an opportunity - and left including leaving the game.

THAT was very, very poor recruiting, with no consideration for the future.

BOTH of those recruiting events cost us premierships.

Given the problems we have had with the structure of our defence, which has been "monstored" over recent seasons including by other teams pushing their ruckmen forward (remember?), who exactly is in the frame to be drafted/recruited for the 2017 season and fill a defensive KPP as an alternate to the 198cm Carlisle and to support the emerging 196cm Goddard?

No doubt, given the belief the impacted players have shown in Little and Hird and their pronouncements that the players would suffer no penalty (so who was for this cheating?), I would imagine that several are totally disallusioned with Essendon and may wish to join the "want aways" at the first available opportunity.

I would be picking the eyes out of the Essendon List by reviewing Contract termination dates - including any player looking to terminate a Contract because of the reputation of the Essendon FC (and Essendon would be hard pressed to stand in their way including because standing in their way will drag the matter on further and further - in fact, Essendon should offer releases to any player who does not want to be further associated with Essendon as a gesture of goodwill).

Carlisle can assist in this process - because he is a former team mate.

Essendon (and the AFL) are rightfully stuffed and cooked.

St Kilda are not.

The ONLY Essendon (and AFL) person to come out of this with reputation in tact is Evans who, just maybe, and you can speculate, upon learning of the cheating, wanted the Club to own up - and then came Little and the rest is history.

The NRL Club similarly blighted put its hand up - and the matter is now past history for them, the players accepting 3 month bans courtesy of owning up.

Essendon's and the AFL's solicitors are going to be very, very busy - and their bank balances will grow at a rate of knots.

Then there is revenue, and sponsors wanting to have nothing to do with such a tainted brand.

Plus, to finish, as with Armstrong, Watson's Brownlow Medal is GONE.

Who was the Runner-up, because they are now a Brownlow Medalist.

Agree with a bit of this but the recruiting of what 2 incidents cost us a premiership? I don't get it. Who left who could have won us a flag? I cant think of anyone and we had no money in the cap so we couldn't get anything but ordinary players from other clubs. We had 2 to 3 years to win a flag. We took a punt that anyone could see would cost us later on but after one flag in over 140 years it was worth the punt IMO. I don't get what you mean and why are the AFL stuffed. I still don't get how they can be sued and if they are stuffed you comment on us not being stuffed is wrong. Always makes me laugh when people seem to barrack for the AFL to be stuffed. Don't they care about our club?

[samoht]

Sides are now playing the quicker, running/rebounding defenders - and moving away from the tall/big-bodied (around 200cm) defenders. That's how the modern game is developing.
That may be the reason Goddard (who will develop into a very fine player in any case) slipped to us in the previous draft?

[Trixilver]

My hatred for Essendon will likely never end. I even wrote to the club (just for laughs) before the trade saying that we shouldn't give up 5 for Carlisle. I didn't really know that much about him. I had heard good things about him, but never saw him play a great game.

[suss]

So the club makes a stupid trade decision and apparently anyone who calls them out is a sook.

Next time I make a dumb mistake at work and get criticised by my boss I'll be sure to call him a sook and ask him why he thinks the sky is falling in.

[HitTheBoundary]

The Carlisle trade should be judged in 5 years time, not now.

We won't know his real value to us (good or bad) until then.

[older saint]

Buyer beware - Stkilda knew the risk going into the trade. At the end of the day I cant see StKilda making the finals this season, Carlisle not playing may mean 2 less wins which means a better pick in the draft next season. Come 2017 Carlisle, still young and best footy in front of him. potentially an earlier pick and a good run for the finals in 2017, with the additional development of some of our young guys to boot.
The trade IMO was a good trade, key position players are hard to get and now going forward we have KPP to build around for the next 8 years - Bruce, McCartin, Carlise, Goddard . Patience required.

[Bluthy]

AFL just announced Saints can immediately upgrade a rookie for Carlisle.

So Essendon can bring players onto their list not currently signed, but we can only upgrade a rookie? What a lot of s***. We should be able to sign another player if we wanted to. AFL suck.

There would be no advantage on our adding such a player as he would not be with us next year.

That's up to us to decide. Its about consistency - if Essendon, the club the created this catastrophe, can bring in players to replace those who can't play so should the other clubs. Again the AFL just make rules up on the fly and are inconsistent - they learn nothing. If Carlisle isn't being paid he is effectively delisted for a season - we deserve the right to have a full list. What about Port who would be aiming for a top four finish and have now lost a ruck that could well effect their flag shot? Why shouldn't they be able to see if they can find a backup ruck for list balance. I think this could be challenged by the effected clubs. Watch this space.

[ripplug66]

So the club makes a stupid trade decision and apparently anyone who calls them out is a sook.

Next time I make a dumb mistake at work and get criticised by my boss I'll be sure to call him a sook and ask him why he thinks the sky is falling in.

I don't think anyone is calling people sooks for saying its a stupid trade. I think in 8 pages you can see the posts that sound sooky but it isn't those saying it was a poor trade.

[Bluthy]

Apparently he was involved a huge crash out at Essendon (people are saying there is wreckage everywhere) so I'll let today slide.

Glad you're finding it humerous. The bloke will be shattered and in need of counseling. But if it gives you laugh then good luck to you.

The guy may well travel around the world this year and then swan back into a team on the verge of finals on half a million a year playing footy for a living. Excuse me if I'd rather spill the blood from my bleeding heart for the kids in Syria eating grass to survive. Yes its frustrating and demoralising for him, footy players always want to play footy, but no one has died or been injured. If you can't laugh about losing pick 5 for guy who days later was filmed snorting coke and now is rubbed out for a crucial development year, then you just have to cry. That's the Saints way of coping - you need the patience of a Saint

[cowboy18]

In addition to all the other upsides mentioned in this thread, interested people may be able to get a really good deal on a player sponsorship for Carlisle next year.

[magnifisaint]

ffs
has he been like this for the last month or so?

ignore

Yes fancy trying to support our club and the players. What was I thinking. How about the betting scenario? How did that go. Good idea to ignore me. I was looking at the positives.

Hey Mr Grumpy's. I've got the rose-coloured glasses firmly attached and I'm seeing positives everywhere now. Jake won't be late for training again this year, amirite? And now he can focus on completing Fallout 4 which will boost his confidence. Go St Kilda!! Ra Ra Ra

Hey Bluthy ........... Jake didn't turn up for training THIS morning (I read some comment on the AFL site - assume that's correct). Do you think we can suspend him further for not reaching club standards, by not attending training!!???

Why do you need to hang shyt on the guy. If he comes back in 2017 and earns AA selection will you start to embrace him. I'd rather have a druggie at our club rather than a cross dressing Brownlow medalist who likes to expose himself to school children.

[magnifisaint]

The Carlisle trade should be judged in 5 years time, not now.

We won't know his real value to us (good or bad) until then.

Too right

[suss]

So the club makes a stupid trade decision and apparently anyone who calls them out is a sook.

Next time I make a dumb mistake at work and get criticised by my boss I'll be sure to call him a sook and ask him why he thinks the sky is falling in.

I don't think anyone is calling people sooks for saying its a stupid trade. I think in 8 pages you can see the posts that sound sooky but it isn't those saying it was a poor trade.

Exhibit A:

Never seen so many people happy to tell us how right they were about Carlisle even if being right means the club suffers. Pat on the backs. Having said that we made a poor decision in hindsight obviously. One person said its the same a knee reco. Yep missing the year the same but there is no way we would have paid what we did if a person was known to be missing a year.

Anyway that's all in the past and none of it can be changed now so those who are saying they were right or sooking about our club need to get on board. Knocking the recruiting or Carlisle isn't going to help anyone. All it seems to do is make more people angry on here.

[ripplug66]

So the club makes a stupid trade decision and apparently anyone who calls them out is a sook.

Next time I make a dumb mistake at work and get criticised by my boss I'll be sure to call him a sook and ask him why he thinks the sky is falling in.

I don't think anyone is calling people sooks for saying its a stupid trade. I think in 8 pages you can see the posts that sound sooky but it isn't those saying it was a poor trade.

Exhibit A:

Never seen so many people happy to tell us how right they were about Carlisle even if being right means the club suffers. Pat on the backs. Having said that we made a poor decision in hindsight obviously. One person said its the same a knee reco. Yep missing the year the same but there is no way we would have paid what we did if a person was known to be missing a year.

Anyway that's all in the past and none of it can be changed now so those who are saying they were right or sooking about our club need to get on board. Knocking the recruiting or Carlisle isn't going to help anyone. All it seems to do is make more people angry on here.

How does that post prove anything. If anything it proves exactly what I said. There are two different terms I used. I never said they were sooking because of bad recruiting. Not once so another example would be good. Knocking the recruiting of the club wasn't mentioned in the same line as sooking. Nice try just a poor result. Try example B.