Carlisle ban?

[saintsRrising]

AFL just announced Saints can immediately upgrade a rookie for Carlisle.

Though probably better to wait till we have seen some form and there is desire to play one of our rookies at AFL level.

[Con Gorozidis]

AFL just announced Saints can immediately upgrade a rookie for Carlisle.

I guess it will be Saunders or Payne? Or will we just wait on VFL form and do it in late April ?

[ripplug66]

I distinctly remember a heap of people on here wanting Carlisle, wouldn't be hard to resurrect that thread.

Truly and utterly pissed off at those who wanted him.

1. We pay way overs (why would you give up pick 5 ffs).
2. People on here ignored the ASADA like it was nothing to worry about.
3. People on here ignored his shady character.

Now we have gotten royally screwed.
Should have ONLY been a 2nd round pick, maximum, or he would of walked.

Not happy Jan.

Meh...

People on here didn't pick him so why get pissed off with them.

[SMS]

I'm mystified at this thread.

We recruited Carlisle to play for us for 7 years, not for 12 months.

We went into this "eyes open", and everyone was aware of the possibility of suspension.

We paid a price for Carlisle that was close to equivalent of what other clubs had offered - indicating that we were close to his fair market value.

We did not pay dramatically over what other clubs were prepared to offer.

Carlisle will be 25 when he plays his first game with the Saints.

If Carlisle is All Australian CHB in 2018 and we finish top 4, is it a wasted trade? Of course not. And yet this outcome is still a very real possibility. So why write him off?

My information is that Carlisle's contract is for less than $500k per year, as it was reduced after the footage of his previous off-field indiscretions was released.

St Kilda is prevented from paying Carlisle for 2016, so the club won't be spending money on a player who has been suspended.

And jaxons is correct - Elshaug's ranked list (written and seen prior to the draft) had Gresham as the player we would have drafted with pick #5, not Parish.

Surely it's time to support Carlisle, given his potential upside and the investment we have made. If you read the posts in this thread, you would think the club has made an Andrew Lovett style decision. We are a long way from that!

ABSOLUTELY! 100% agree
Everyone read the above and chill!!

This is a blessing in disguise. Weve secured a gun CHB, get to freshen him up while we don't have to pay for it!! beautiful!

[lefty]

PROS
Carlisle will be fresher for 2017+ and it will prolong his career. We will be realistically going for the flag 2019 onwards.
Won't have to pay Carlisle in a year we don't really need him.
Essendon are screwed. It will ruin them for 10 years. I hate essendon. sorry.
DRAFT 2016: We will have more money and will get better draft picks. In a strong draft from early reports.

CONS
Don't get to see Carlisle in Action in 2016
Will lose a couple of games in 2016 we may have won due to this.
MUST keep Carlisle in check over the year. That is going to be a task and a half. I believe in our leaders and staff these days.

All is not that bad guys.

Carlisle will be fresher for 2017+ and it will prolong his career. We will be realistically going for the flag 2019 onwards. = This is not fact.
Won't have to pay Carlisle in a year we don't really need him. = I don't think that matters, we have a salary cap.
Essendon are screwed. It will ruin them for 10 years. I hate essendon. sorry. = I don't wish upon any club what they're going through
DRAFT 2016: We will have more money and will get better draft picks. In a strong draft from early reports. = Unsure if this is true regarding money (not sure how), and I don't understand how this means we will get better draft picks.

Don't get to see Carlisle in Action in 2016 = waste of time
Will lose a couple of games in 2016 we may have won due to this. = speculative, but I'll support playing the young kids, just don't play the oldies and get smashed by 100+ points.
MUST keep Carlisle in check over the year. That is going to be a task and a half. I believe in our leaders and staff these days. = we should not be forced to babysit someone, either he has his head screwed on or he doesn't. The club doesn't need the burden.

[loris]

ffs
has he been like this for the last month or so?

ignore

Yes fancy trying to support our club and the players. What was I thinking. How about the betting scenario? How did that go. Good idea to ignore me. I was looking at the positives.

Hey Mr Grumpy's. I've got the rose-coloured glasses firmly attached and I'm seeing positives everywhere now. Jake won't be late for training again this year, amirite? And now he can focus on completing Fallout 4 which will boost his confidence. Go St Kilda!! Ra Ra Ra

Hey Bluthy ........... Jake didn't turn up for training THIS morning (I read some comment on the AFL site - assume that's correct). Do you think we can suspend him further for not reaching club standards, by not attending training!!???

[Bluthy]

AFL just announced Saints can immediately upgrade a rookie for Carlisle.

So Essendon can bring players onto their list not currently signed, but we can only upgrade a rookie? What a lot of s***. We should be able to sign another player if we wanted to. AFL suck.

[GoSaintersGo]

As long as he's dominating when we challange it's not a big deal. He can get his body right now. The biggest issue I see is his welfare and keeping him focused for another 12 months. It will be so tough for all these players. I hope we have something in place to help him get through this period. Dont send him overseas.

Get him out of the northern suburbs. Get him down south.

Get his mind off all this crap.

Give him a job labouring at Linton Street; helping to build his and our new home. Keep him busy and allow him to be drawn into the magical powers of the Moorabbin Oval.

Surely that's not classed as training with the club

It's good to read something positive Dr. instead of all the negative crap that comes from so many of our supporters.
The St.KFC is run by a highly intelligent Board and very capable list of Senior Management in whom I have a very high regard. As capable people, they would not select Carlisle as a future player of the Club without formulating a contingency plan to cover this current situation. And by the way, the Board and Management are not going to publicise their contingency plan for everyone to see, including the nuf nuf's on this website.

[SMS]

Carlisle is worth babysitting. Absolute GUN. Best hands of a 200cm possibly ever certainly been none better.

[Con Gorozidis]

Realistically we dont need Jake until 2017 anyway.

[saintbrat]

11:00am: New Saint Jake Carlisle has had a bumpy start to his time at St Kilda. Matt Thompson says he was absent from training this morning.

maybe onto something he could be at Moorabbin as long as the players can't be there because of the renovation/ building

[Bluthy]

ffs
has he been like this for the last month or so?

ignore

Yes fancy trying to support our club and the players. What was I thinking. How about the betting scenario? How did that go. Good idea to ignore me. I was looking at the positives.

Hey Mr Grumpy's. I've got the rose-coloured glasses firmly attached and I'm seeing positives everywhere now. Jake won't be late for training again this year, amirite? And now he can focus on completing Fallout 4 which will boost his confidence. Go St Kilda!! Ra Ra Ra

Hey Bluthy ........... Jake didn't turn up for training THIS morning (I read some comment on the AFL site - assume that's correct). Do you think we can suspend him further for not reaching club standards, by not attending training!!???

Apparently he was involved a huge crash out at Essendon (people are saying there is wreckage everywhere) so I'll let today slide.

[samuraisaint]

Ooh another positive. Without Carlisle we might tread water this year and end up with pick 5 at next years draft - easy come, easy go. Good times!

To be honest mate, we probably would've anyway. We may lose a couple of games we might have won, and we might get a couple of extra thrashings, but with Essendon being so weakened that will equal 2 wins anyway.

Gives a rookie a chance.

[loris]

ffs
has he been like this for the last month or so?

ignore

Yes fancy trying to support our club and the players. What was I thinking. How about the betting scenario? How did that go. Good idea to ignore me. I was looking at the positives.

Hey Mr Grumpy's. I've got the rose-coloured glasses firmly attached and I'm seeing positives everywhere now. Jake won't be late for training again this year, amirite? And now he can focus on completing Fallout 4 which will boost his confidence. Go St Kilda!! Ra Ra Ra

Hey Bluthy ........... Jake didn't turn up for training THIS morning (I read some comment on the AFL site - assume that's correct). Do you think we can suspend him further for not reaching club standards, by not attending training!!???

Apparently he was involved a huge crash out at Essendon (people are saying there is wreckage everywhere) so I'll let today slide.

It's good to know the rest of our players won't have to do an extra 5am session to pay for his absence !

[Bluthy]

Realistically we dont need Jake until 2017 anyway.

Thats facile Con. He loses a lot by not playing this year. A year away from footy you lose some of your touch. He should be learning how his team-mates plays - its takes years to really lock in and get that tightness you need to win finals. And he won't even be able to bond with the players like he could if he was injured but was still there for rehab. He's come in big money which would have put noses out of joint, brought a recreational and now PED drug scandal with him, was late to training twice after saying he would do everything right. Now he loses the ability to get valuable bonding with his team mates for a whole year. Its not good Con. Don't buy the positivety hype people who are scared of looking at the truth are running. This isn't good. Its not a complete disaster, but its not good.

Sorry my rose-coloured glasses slipped off. They're back on now. Wow - more publicity for St Kilda when the reporters start sniffing around. All publicity is good publicity yeah? Superb day!

[Dr Spaceman]

Sorry my rose-coloured glasses slipped off.

Get contacts.

[Harvey To Hayes]

I'm mystified at this thread.

We recruited Carlisle to play for us for 7 years, not for 12 months.

We went into this "eyes open", and everyone was aware of the possibility of suspension.

We paid a price for Carlisle that was close to equivalent of what other clubs had offered - indicating that we were close to his fair market value.

We did not pay dramatically over what other clubs were prepared to offer.

Carlisle will be 25 when he plays his first game with the Saints.

If Carlisle is All Australian CHB in 2018 and we finish top 4, is it a wasted trade? Of course not. And yet this outcome is still a very real possibility. So why write him off?

My information is that Carlisle's contract is for less than $500k per year, as it was reduced after the footage of his previous off-field indiscretions was released.

St Kilda is prevented from paying Carlisle for 2016, so the club won't be spending money on a player who has been suspended.

And jaxons is correct - Elshaug's ranked list (written and seen prior to the draft) had Gresham as the player we would have drafted with pick #5, not Parish.

Surely it's time to support Carlisle, given his potential upside and the investment we have made. If you read the posts in this thread, you would think the club has made an Andrew Lovett style decision. We are a long way from that!

Common sense has no place in this discussion.

People these days seem to love being outraged, this will provide plenty of fodder (and not just from Saints fans, spare a thought for Bombers fans)

We play Carlton and Essendon twice each this year too, there's some victories there at the very least.

[8856brother]

ffs
has he been like this for the last month or so?

ignore

Yes fancy trying to support our club and the players. What was I thinking. How about the betting scenario? How did that go. Good idea to ignore me. I was looking at the positives.

Hey Mr Grumpy's. I've got the rose-coloured glasses firmly attached and I'm seeing positives everywhere now. Jake won't be late for training again this year, amirite? And now he can focus on completing Fallout 4 which will boost his confidence. Go St Kilda!! Ra Ra Ra

Hey Bluthy ........... Jake didn't turn up for training THIS morning (I read some comment on the AFL site - assume that's correct). Do you think we can suspend him further for not reaching club standards, by not attending training!!???

Apparently he was involved a huge crash out at Essendon (people are saying there is wreckage everywhere) so I'll let today slide.

Glad you're finding it humerous. The bloke will be shattered and in need of counseling. But if it gives you laugh then good luck to you.

[saintsRrising]

AFL just announced Saints can immediately upgrade a rookie for Carlisle.

So Essendon can bring players onto their list not currently signed, but we can only upgrade a rookie? What a lot of s***. We should be able to sign another player if we wanted to. AFL suck.

There would be no advantage on our adding such a player as he would not be with us next year.

[No77778]

Im disappointed but as long as he can stay fit all will workout

[WinnersOnly]

I find it comical that people still believe the St Kilda recruitment team have served the club well regarding the transaction involving Carlisle.

Essendon have played this quite smart when you think about it, Dodoro must be laughing himself silly at the stupidity of clubs like ours. They were able to off load a number of players for high picks over the past couple of trade periods eg Crameri, Montgomery, Ryder, Melksham and Carlisle all for more than expected market value (given pending bans). So basically they have had 3 years of recruiting to replace players they expected would be banned. This year they also took a number of older ready to go recruits eg Brown & Hartley. WHY do you think they did that all the time telling clubs like the Saints that they wouldn't be penalised.

I like a number of other posters are livid that our club could fall for this and be bastardised at the trade table by a club that has a history of exactly that. The recruitment team and club had taken huge strides in drafting over the past couple of seasons, but this has placed them back with the plethora of past St Kilda list/trade debacles.

Lets not forget that Elshaugh was a past Essendon player and it seems he has also been enchanted by his old club. For me this trade will remain as bad as the Lovett trade and casts the current recruitment team in a very poor light in line with past incompetent regimes.

[Harvey To Hayes]

Essendon have played this quite smart when you think about it, Dodoro must be laughing himself silly at the stupidity of clubs like ours.

I'm sure right now Dodoro and the rest of the Essendon hierachy are down the drinker pissing themselves laughing at pulling one over us...

[samuraisaint]

I find it comical that people still believe the St Kilda recruitment team have served the club well regarding the transaction involving Carlisle.

Essendon have played this quite smart when you think about it, Dodoro must be laughing himself silly at the stupidity of clubs like ours. They were able to off load a number of players for high picks over the past couple of trade periods eg Crameri, Montgomery, Ryder, Melksham and Carlisle all for more than expected market value (given pending bans). So basically they have had 3 years of recruiting to replace players they expected would be banned. This year they also took a number of older ready to go recruits eg Brown & Hartley. WHY do you think they did that all the time telling clubs like the Saints that they wouldn't be penalised.

I like a number of other posters are livid that our club could fall for this and be bastardised at the trade table by a club that has a history of exactly that. The recruitment team and club had taken huge strides in drafting over the past couple of seasons, but this has placed them back with the plethora of past St Kilda list/trade debacles.

Lets not forget that Elshaugh was a past Essendon player and it seems he has also been enchanted by his old club. For me this trade will remain as bad as the Lovett trade and casts the current recruitment team in a very poor light in line with past incompetent regimes.

I'm sure they will be laughing themselves silly, when what is left of those 12 players on the list suspended, minus those who have retired in disgrace, demand to be traded or walk. I don't know why we let them have pick #5 either, but that club are going to have major issues with playing personnel for decades. They were forced to trade Carlisle and Ryder, as they were going to walk anyway at the end of their contracts. That is two very good players they have lost, who will never play for them again. They also lost another very good player, Crameri, and they haven't even seen the worst of it yet. That's three first 22 Essendon players gawn. 17 current players suspended. We will have Carlisle back in 2017, Essendon cannot be sure any of their 12 will ever play for them again. Imagine losing 17 of our better players due to poor governance.
Yes, we will only tread water this year, but it was always going to be a development year for us anyway. I'm disappointed too, but hopefully we can turn this negative into a positive in 2016 to load up for a successful decade beginning sometime around 2018/19.
Carlisle owes St. Kilda now. Hopefully he repays the club with interest. I will say one thing though. The club must never deal with Essendon again - unless it is when we poach Heppel and Hurley.

[Legendary]

I find it comical that people still believe the St Kilda recruitment team have served the club well regarding the transaction involving Carlisle.

I like a number of other posters are livid that our club could fall for this and be bastardised at the trade table by a club that has a history of exactly that. The recruitment team and club had taken huge strides in drafting over the past couple of seasons, but this has placed them back with the plethora of past St Kilda list/trade debacles.

Lets not forget that Elshaugh was a past Essendon player and it seems he has also been enchanted by his old club. For me this trade will remain as bad as the Lovett trade and casts the current recruitment team in a very poor light in line with past incompetent regimes.

If Carlisle plays 100 games for St Kilda and wins a best and fairest (for example), would you still hold the same views?

Yes, it's hypothetical, but so is the outcome you describe above. It remains possible that Carlisle will be a successful player for St Kilda in the long-term.

Surely it's far too early to judge the first season of a 6-7 year recruit?

The Michael Gardiner trade was a disaster for us after year 1 - he didn't play a game. After Round 14, 2009 it was the greatest trade in the game's history. Do you not see the need to take a long term view to drafting and trading?

And are you really trying to intimate that Tony Elshaug has some bias towards the club he played for 25 years ago which would impact upon the performance of his job as our recruiting and list manager?

How exactly was St Kilda "bastardised" by Essendon when the possibility of Carlisle's suspension was known to the public?

[BigMart]

Glass half full people

He'll definitely be the AA CHB in 2017 now!!