Carlisle ban?

[shrodes]

I wonder what Hurley, Watson and Heppell will be doing in 2017? Let's get into them and their management from day one. Let's kick the Essendope corpse and use their self inflicted misfortune to advance our cause. Imagine picking one of those up for free. Hope Jake is on good terms with some of his former team mates. We may yet emerge out of all of this, way ahead.

Watson will be 32 by the time he is able to play again... bit past our age group isn't he?

[Enrico_Misso]

If the doping players can now sue Essendon why can't we take legal action against them for our losses?

[8856brother]

As long as he's dominating when we challange it's not a big deal. He can get his body right now. The biggest issue I see is his welfare and keeping him focused for another 12 months. It will be so tough for all these players. I hope we have something in place to help him get through this period. Dont send him overseas.

Get around him Bluth!

[saintsRrising]

Only thing that matters is that he's ours now.

And it's not like we didn't realise this may happen.

If we hope to get anything out of our "investment" then we need to stand by him and support him. He seems like the sort of bloke who could really go off the rails if he's left to his own devices.

The bloke's still very important to our long term plans.


#standbyjake

Hear, hear, Dr. S. He's ours now. Let's make the best of a bad situation.

Agreed. I'm just going to pretend we're drafting him next year and add him to that crop.
I'll call it the 'best drafting ever'

Longterm it will not matter to us. Carlisle was recruited for out next tilt and not just as a 2016 "top-up".

2016 we are still re-building and were not going to play finals.

With Fisher, "Carlisle Insurance" is probably a big factor in why he is playing one last season.

Yes we paid "overs' for Carlisle as his price should have had a "WADA" discount. However he remains the type of player we need for our next finals tilt.

Port and Dogs are the ones who will be actually bleeding (aprt from the Dons) as they are aiming to play finals in 2016.

[samoht]

It's not time to be philosophical about this - we need to see if we can legally get some sort of concessions from Essendon (even if it's next year) - failing this - or maybe regardless of this, whoever made the final call on Carlisle - wherever the buck stops - should get the chop.
The recruiting of Carlisle was not properly thought through.

[SaintPav]

Suck it up. It's happened and no amount of whining will change it.

magnificent has spoken.

Lock the thread.

[saintkid]

Said it before and will say it again - giving up what we did to Essendon for Carlisle when he had a ban hanging over his head with all his baggage was friggin nuts - we should have stood our ground and taken him to the PSD or only offered a 2nd rounder if anything at all - now we are looking like complete muppets

If the 12 month ban reports are true then he will be 26.5 before he even pulls on a St Kilda in anger with a year and a half out of footy ........ nought more needs to be said

Spot on. There were always going to be ramifications for any Essendon player involved, it was never going to be little more than a reprimand. The hierarchy at St Kilda including our coach made a very questionable decision giving up the draft choice they did for Carlisle before today's news. After today, they have made another massive blunder that only a few clubs like us seem to do. Fo those that say Hawthorn and a few others were as keen, that is crap. NO other club was prepared to give up as much as what our club did. This is why he nominated us as his club of choice, all the time acting like an idiot behind the scenes. He had a prior history of being like that, includind a poor attitude at Essendon. It's hard to earn money like what was thrown by our club to Jake in the real world but some players have no concept of how privileged they really are. He was one, which the club knew. It's even harder to win premierships with players with such a mindset.

[freely]

Carlisle out, Freeman injured...it'd be our worst trade period ever - if I weren't quietly confident Gresham and Rice will go on to be 100+ gamers )

[BigMart]

Glass half full people.... It's only a bad recruiting decision if you let it be... Think of the positives, we recruited a guy on a 3 year contract who'll play two years!!!


I'm sure (knowing his reputation) he'll go away and train his arse off, and come back bigger and better.

[repta]

He is an absolute goose. Left to his own devices to train for 12 months will mean no end of trouble. If he is banned from playing does that mean he doesnt have to participate in drug tests? (yes by all accounts he is stupid enough).

If we dont have to pay him it will be the best news all day

[BigMart]

Of course we pay him, he signed a contract.

Think of the positives, it could add 5 years to his career.

[magnifisaint]

Suck it up. It's happened and no amount of whining will change it.

magnificent has spoken.

Lock the thread.

Sorry but I can't stand hindsight analysis.

[Vazelos]

I am not agreeing with people saying its a bad recruiting decision, we knew there was some risk in recruiting Bombers players.
He will be 25 when he plays his first game of football for St Kilda, the start of his prime in a crucial Key Position
We have thrown some currency at KPP in Mc Cartin & Carlisle as they take a long time to develop & they are harder to find due to the scarcity of quality players at that height.
We were never going to hit the window until 2018-20 anyway & thats if we keep nailing our recruiting ( Its not a given that we are going to roll into the top 8 or 4).

I am as down as anyone in the sense I was super keen to see him take on the CHB role & make it his own but now we have to wait.

The reality is we got him in the 1st place because of this mess, he would never be on the market in normal circumstances.

The reality now is Goggard gets more time and responsibility & Delaney has a year to save his career.

PS I am concerned to the fact he cant train with us, where does he go for a year?

[saynta]

Supposed master mind traders and negotiators. Couldn't have fluffed the 2015 trades anymore. Should have always played hardball with the bombers
Out of contract
Nominated the saints
WADA hanging over his head


Can't blame them for the off field indescretion although arguably some did say he didn't pass the d**khead test but purely based on the above we got righ royally shafted on the Carlisle trade and now we are paying the price in full

A blind man could see that this was going to happen.

[samoht]

Said it before and will say it again - giving up what we did to Essendon for Carlisle when he had a ban hanging over his head with all his baggage was friggin nuts - we should have stood our ground and taken him to the PSD or only offered a 2nd rounder if anything at all - now we are looking like complete muppets

If the 12 month ban reports are true then he will be 26.5 before he even pulls on a St Kilda in anger with a year and a half out of footy ........ nought more needs to be said

Spot on. There were always going to be ramifications for any Essendon player involved, it was never going to be little more than a reprimand. The hierarchy at St Kilda including our coach made a very questionable decision giving up the draft choice they did for Carlisle before today's news. After today, they have made another massive blunder that only a few clubs like us seem to do. Fo those that say Hawthorn and a few others were as keen, that is crap. NO other club was prepared to give up as much as what our club did. This is why he nominated us as his club of choice, all the time acting like an idiot behind the scenes. He had a prior history of being like that, includind a poor attitude at Essendon. It's hard to earn money like what was thrown by our club to Jake in the real world but some players have no concept of how privileged they really are. He was one, which the club knew. It's even harder to win premierships with players with such a mindset.

Spot on!
Being philosophical about the Carlisle trade (embracing it, sucking it up, etc...) - means we're condoning incompetence in our recruiting. A few of us amateurs on the sidelines could see the risks, but our so called professional recruiters couldn't (or refused to/downplayed them). Not good enough.
If we can't get concessions from Essendon (or maybe regardless of whether we do or not), heads should roll.

[dragit]

Said it before and will say it again - giving up what we did to Essendon for Carlisle when he had a ban hanging over his head with all his baggage was friggin nuts - we should have stood our ground and taken him to the PSD or only offered a 2nd rounder if anything at all - now we are looking like complete muppets

If the 12 month ban reports are true then he will be 26.5 before he even pulls on a St Kilda in anger with a year and a half out of footy ........ nought more needs to be said

Spot on. There were always going to be ramifications for any Essendon player involved, it was never going to be little more than a reprimand. The hierarchy at St Kilda including our coach made a very questionable decision giving up the draft choice they did for Carlisle before today's news. After today, they have made another massive blunder that only a few clubs like us seem to do. Fo those that say Hawthorn and a few others were as keen, that is crap. NO other club was prepared to give up as much as what our club did. This is why he nominated us as his club of choice, all the time acting like an idiot behind the scenes. He had a prior history of being like that, includind a poor attitude at Essendon. It's hard to earn money like what was thrown by our club to Jake in the real world but some players have no concept of how privileged they really are. He was one, which the club knew. It's even harder to win premierships with players with such a mindset.

Have to agree, we were in a great position to pick him up cheaply but folded after idle threats about sending him to hawthorn.

Pick 5 should never been involved in a trade for a player facing a doping ban.

Obviously things can still turn, so fingers crossed... But right now this trade is in tatters when we've worked so hard to recruit on character.

Maybe we can organise Dan Connors and Benny Cousins to mind him for a year... hit up a few OS training hotspots like Colombia and Jamaica.

[Bluthy]

They will be doing some soul searching down at the club for sure. If they knew he would have a year out before I don't think they do the deal. That's a crucial year where he could have started playing along side his new team mates and learning how they all play and forming a partnership with Goddard before we start gearing up for finals. This sets our plan back. But I don't think we have any recourse so really now its about making sure Mr Carlisle stays out of trouble, keeps himself fit and doesn't self-implode.

Does anyone know if Richo can keep contact with him and/or meet with him regularly off-site? We really need Richo to be the full father figure for this cat now.

[supersaints]

Of course we pay him, he signed a contract.

Think of the positives, it could add 5 years to his career.

Bigmart if my memory is correct banned players cannot receive income from sport during the length of their ban...

[Dr Spaceman]

As long as he's dominating when we challange it's not a big deal. He can get his body right now. The biggest issue I see is his welfare and keeping him focused for another 12 months. It will be so tough for all these players. I hope we have something in place to help him get through this period. Dont send him overseas.

Get him out of the northern suburbs. Get him down south.

Get his mind off all this crap.

Give him a job labouring at Linton Street; helping to build his and our new home. Keep him busy and allow him to be drawn into the magical powers of the Moorabbin Oval.

Surely that's not classed as training with the club

[BigMart]

not sure about that?

[joeyjohnw]

Forget about this year- It's about how Carlisle will return next year. If he's fit and firing, what's the problem? As mentioned earlier a year out of the game can actually extend players careers- like having an extra long off season. And if we are looking to the future, then that is a good thing. If next year was part of our premiership window, I'd be devastated. But it's nowhere near that. So move on, I guess. And wait until next year to make our true judgment.

[kosifantutti]

not sure about that?

Me too! What are we not sure about?

[magnifisaint]

Said it before and will say it again - giving up what we did to Essendon for Carlisle when he had a ban hanging over his head with all his baggage was friggin nuts - we should have stood our ground and taken him to the PSD or only offered a 2nd rounder if anything at all - now we are looking like complete muppets

If the 12 month ban reports are true then he will be 26.5 before he even pulls on a St Kilda in anger with a year and a half out of footy ........ nought more needs to be said

Spot on. There were always going to be ramifications for any Essendon player involved, it was never going to be little more than a reprimand. The hierarchy at St Kilda including our coach made a very questionable decision giving up the draft choice they did for Carlisle before today's news. After today, they have made another massive blunder that only a few clubs like us seem to do. Fo those that say Hawthorn and a few others were as keen, that is crap. NO other club was prepared to give up as much as what our club did. This is why he nominated us as his club of choice, all the time acting like an idiot behind the scenes. He had a prior history of being like that, includind a poor attitude at Essendon. It's hard to earn money like what was thrown by our club to Jake in the real world but some players have no concept of how privileged they really are. He was one, which the club knew. It's even harder to win premierships with players with such a mindset.

Spot on!
Being philosophical about the Carlisle trade (embracing it, sucking it up, etc...) - means we're condoning incompetence in our recruiting. A few of us amateurs on the sidelines could see the risks, but our so called professional recruiters couldn't (or refused to/downplayed them). Not good enough.
If we can't get concessions from Essendon (or maybe regardless of whether we do or not), heads should roll.

So what you're saying is that Hawthorn is incompetent too and a few other clubs for good measure. No one knew what the length of the bans were going to be. If you understand anything about risk control you will know there is no such thing as a sure trade. There is no reward without risk, period!

[jaxons]

Positives are:
* He will only miss 20 games and we are not contending this year.
* Chance to get his body right.
* At least Fisher is still playing.
* We play Carlton and Essendon twice this year.
* We would have taken Gresham with pick 5 and White with our second round pick so we really didn't give up as much as you think.

[spert]

Just thinking that our recruiters are dummies- I may be wrong, but JC had this cloud hanging over his head and there was a real chance that this kind of thing was going to happen- we also we recruit Freeman who couldn't get his legs right no matter how much a highly resourced club like Collingwood could throw at the problem.