Dustin Martin

[markp]

If people want to discuss it as such with all its surrounding and particular issues then they should be allowed to without being told in at times a vile and resentful way that they shouldn't.

Pretty rich coming from you…

Anyone who dare discuss this actual incident outside of condemning Martin has been accused of the most disgusting attitudes towards women, condoning violence and victim blaming.

Bringing Jill Meagher into the debate is just despicable.

Yeah because victim blaming is not a thing.

Because questioning and casting doubt over the woman's account without knowing the full story (or account even) is a great look.

Because saying she acted poorly and put herself in danger (without knowing how she acted or why) can in no way be compared to incidences such as Jill Meagher's murder, when that's what some people did then too.

So really you can keep your hurt feelings and your faux outrage at my 'despicable' act of daring to mention a murdered woman's name.

But thanks for dropping back in late.

Where have people (outside of some widely condemned posts by a particular poster) said that she "acted poorly"? How can you discuss an incident without discussing what lead up to the incident. This whole thread has gone on and on because someone dared mention any causative factors and you and a couple of other posters proceeded to bully them endlessly. It was you who brought gender into it and continue to denigrate and stereotype people because of their gender.

How dare we describe this as alcohol fuelled violence, even though it obviously is. Domestic violence is obviously a massive issue in society but although sharing some causative factors such as alcohol and possibly drugs, this was not a domestic violence incident. The murder of Jill meagher only has one thing in common with this incident, gender. It has been bred into us since an early age that women's and children's lives are more important than a mans life.

No one has suggested that she deserved martins response and that she shouldn't have done what she did. They have mearly suggested that they may have approached the situation differently, and you and a couple of other posters have bullied them endlessly for daring to have an opinion.

Yes suggesting that they may have approached the situation differently (without knowing what that situation was or how it was really approached) is not suggesting she could have handled it better, or that she didn't handle it optimally (actually I think someone said those things) or that she didn't handle it perfectly (that too, I think) and anyway none of that means she didn't handle it well or heaven forbid 'acted poorly'.

Sorry, I meant acted sub optimally, not perfectly, could have handled it better.

[TimPekin'sDirtyGuernsey]

Would love to know what the forum thinks about this latest tragedy......

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/h ... y-comments


Harris Park: Toddler fights for life after mother dies jumping in front of train
December 17, 2015 12:00am
The Daily Telegraph
Accident investigators on site at Harris Park railway station, where a woman died after jumping in front of train while holding a three-year-old.

A THREE-year-old girl continues to fight for life in a Sydney hospital after her mother jumped in front of a train while holding her, in the city’s west.

While the 30-year-old woman died at the scene, horrified Sydney Train staff reportedly pulled her three-year-old daughter free from the wheels of the westbound train at Harris Park in a desperate bid to save her life.

She was rushed to Westmead Hospital where she remains in a critical condition with serious injuries.

NSW Police last night confirmed that the incident was self-harm after police from Parramatta Local Area Command reviewed CCTV footage.

Police and fire rescue were called to the station at about 2.10pm following reports a woman had “jumped in front of a train while holding a small child’’.

One man walked away in tears and was comforted by a police officer who was told he had a daughter who was the same age as the girl.

Other shocked witnesses took to Twitter to describe the incident.

“Just witnessed a suicide attempt at Harris Park station,’’ Sahar Seddiqi said.

“I’m stuck on a train at Harris Park, there’s Police everywhere!?!? Does anyone know what’s going on they won’t let us off,’’ Carly Heading said.

A NSW Ambulance spokesman said paramedics arrived at the station about 2.20pm and took the child to hospital at 2.40pm.

Police have launched an extensive investigation for the coroner.

The identity of the woman and her daughter were not available.

The incident led to extensive delays on all lines passing through the station including on trains to Parramatta, Blacktown, Penrith, Richmond and Liverpool.

Sydney trains tweeted that all T5 services on the Cumberland line were suspended.

Lifeline Australia: 13 11 14

Beyondblue: 1300224636

[ripplug66]

Very sad.

[asiu]

circular thoughting of utter despair expressing itself

[Bunk_Moreland]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/13-mi ... lptyb.html

what a bitch hey? Cant take a joke.

Probably asked for it anyway....

[dragit]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/13-mi ... lptyb.html

what a bitch hey? Cant take a joke.

Probably asked for it anyway....

Your abuse and trolling levels are getting back to joffaboy levels, time for another fresh start maybe?

[The_Merchant]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/13-mi ... lptyb.html

what a bitch hey? Cant take a joke.

Probably asked for it anyway....

Your abuse and trolling levels are getting back to joffaboy levels, time for another fresh start maybe?

Who are you directing that at Bunk? Are you arguing with imaginary people now?

[st.byron]

Is 'any attempt to broaden the discussion' a euphemism for attacking and denigrating and dismissing the very notion of a violence against women discourse and campaign?

It must be.

If people acknowledged that this is a case of (alleged) male violence against a woman, and that for many it reasonably leads to a discussion of such (because let's not forget this thread is about a particular incident that fits into that particular category), rather than denying it outright, even as a legitimate notion (in some cases horribly so), and then sought to broaden the discussion, they might find a more cohesive outcome.

But that's not what they are doing, and that's not what they're after.

Mark, I don't understand why you're stuck on the notion that broadening the discussion to violence against both genders equates to invalidating the need to address violence against women. It certainly doesn't to me as I've clearly stated. And it seems very clear to me that most posters on this thread feel the same way.

You posted this a couple of pages ago, "If we were talking about a public and relevant to this forum case of rape or violence against a man and framed the discussion in the wider context of rape and violence against men, but women started posting that it was an invalid discussion"..........

I don't think most men on this forum are saying that the discussion of violence against women is invalid. Can you not see that most posters agree that violence against women needs to be spoken about and seen and brought into the light, that violence against men also needs to be acknowledged - and that there are cultural attitudes that perpetuate violence against both genders? And I say most because I can't be bothered going back through the whole thread looking for and quoting instances of clear misogyny or invalidation of violence against women. There are a wide range of views being expressed and I agree that one or two posters are less sympathetic to that issue than you or I.

[st.byron]

And yes you and you hijacking males on this thread have turned it into a parlour game. I find your victim. mentality appalling.
I will also tell my sister who was bashed unconcious by her first husband to suck it up because some bloke on an Internet forum said it happens to men as well.

I find your post and attitude offensive. A white male trying to take the focus from the issue at hand.

Bunk, you're on the same page as Mark it seems. It's very emotive and very inaccurate to suggest that my and other posters' attitudes suggest that a woman who's been bashed should suck it up because violence also happens to men. It's just way off the mark. You are in fact totally invalidating violence against men as an issue. It's as though yourself and Mark only want to wave the flag about violence against women as issue and everyone else should STFU.
I can see that some posts could be seen as minimising the issue of violence against women - and I totally disagree with this approach to the issue. But to tar every man on here with the same brush and support that with an emotive example that seriously misrepresents how I and most others feel is just as polarised and one sided as the attitudes you're railing against.

[st.byron]

By way of illustration of how violence against men is casually condoned - from today's Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/d ... d-for-joke

"New Zealand’s prime minister, John Key, has been accused of making light of rape after participating in a radio stunt referencing sexual assault in prison....................................A spokesperson for Key told the Guardian: “The prime minister does these interviews in the spirit of Christmas and the content is decided by the hosts. “The interviews are meant to be light hearted, and the prime minister hopes the media and the public take them that way.”


Can you imagine a Prime Minister or anyone making a joke about the rape of women and their spokesperson referring to it as a light hearted joke and in the spirit of Christmas.......
Can you imagine the outcry if this was a joke about the rape of women?
Extraordinary.

So........this post in no way invalidates bringing to the light the endemic violence against women........and I am broadening the discussion to bring to illustrate how casually violence and assault against men is regarded....

[Con Gorozidis]

I know it is the off-season so anything goes but this thread has well and truly jumped the shark. I have nfi what anyone is talking about.

[dragit]

I know it is the off-season so anything goes but this thread has well and truly jumped the shark. I have nfi what anyone is talking about.

Oh con you silly little man... It's about jill meagher and clementine ford.

[Con Gorozidis]

[markp]

I don't think most men on this forum are saying that the discussion of violence against women is invalid. Can you not see that most posters agree that violence against women needs to be spoken about and seen and brought into the light, that violence against men also needs to be acknowledged - and that there are cultural attitudes that perpetuate violence against both genders? And I say most because I can't be bothered going back through the whole thread looking for and quoting instances of clear misogyny or invalidation of violence against women. There are a wide range of views being expressed and I agree that one or two posters are less sympathetic to that issue than you or I.

Well the ones I've been responding to have been, and I'm not sure if your 'most' statement stacks up either. If you could be bothered going back and looking you may find that.

But fine, I'll leave it to you and we'll see how many posters don't just wanna attack notions like feminism or denigrate and dismiss the very idea of any discourse or campaign regarding violence against women and see how much of a constructive contribution you get.

[markp]

Ayyyyyyyy!

[st.byron]

Well the ones I've been responding to have been, and I'm not sure if your 'most' statement stacks up either. If you could be bothered going back and looking you may find that.

But fine, I'll leave it to you and we'll see how many posters don't just wanna attack notions like feminism or denigrate and dismiss the very idea of any discourse or campaign regarding violence against women and see how much of a constructive contribution you get.

Reckon you're way off the mark and driven by your own issues about this. Doesn't seem like a balanced view of the thread to me. Even in your tone which is a bit foot stampy.....i.e "But fine, I'll leave it to you and we'll see how many posters ........."

Clearly it's not fine with you.

[markp]

Well the ones I've been responding to have been, and I'm not sure if your 'most' statement stacks up either. If you could be bothered going back and looking you may find that.

But fine, I'll leave it to you and we'll see how many posters don't just wanna attack notions like feminism or denigrate and dismiss the very idea of any discourse or campaign regarding violence against women and see how much of a constructive contribution you get.

Reckon you're way off the mark and driven by your own issues about this. Doesn't seem like a balanced view of the thread to me. Even in your tone which is a bit foot stampy.....i.e "But fine, I'll leave it to you and we'll see how many posters ........."

Clearly it's not fine with you.

OK Byron.

What I've repeatedly said is people can (obviously) discuss any issue they like arising from this, but that they shouldn't tell (or denigrate) others who reasonably view it and wish to discuss it as an alleged case of violence by a man against a woman, which some had an issue with (even it seems the very idea of a separate category of violence against women).

Now you say I'm way off the mark, here are some quotes from page 15 alone...

markp i think the argument proposed is that you can't seperate male violence against women from violence fullstop, let alone from male violence. To ignore the latter in order to concentrate on the former will achieve nothing.

Why - why does it matter that he's male - would it have been less traumatic for the victim if the aggressor had been a large, muscular female? What I want to know is why is the gender of the alleged perpetrator and victim relevant.

Incidentally, no-one yet has indicated how Martin was actually violent - did he punch the woman, or kick her, or strike a blow with a cudgel?

So far I've only actually heard that he mouthed off, but everyone is talking about "men's violence to women" so there must be way more to it than that.........yes???

Maybe if she had an ounce of common sense this would have all been avoided

I am still trying to get my head around why the gender of the victim matters - they are all dead, so why are the dead females deemed so much more worthy of our concern than the dead males, of whom there are twice as many?

I'm not saying everyone thinks like this, or everyone on the forum does.

But what I've been responding to in this thread is questioning of the motives and actions and account of the alleged victim (without fully knowing what they are), questioning the seriousness of the alleged crime, and the disputing of the notion that this can reasonably be discussed and categorised as an alleged violent crime by a man against a woman.

Now I think I've given it a good run, and if you think I'm way off the mark that's fine (honestly). If you think I'm being 'stampy' (?) then I'm sorry, but I'm just responding while I'm trying to do (and should be doing) other things.

Cheers.

[SaintPav]

I know it is the off-season so anything goes but this thread has well and truly jumped the shark. I have nfi what anyone is talking about.

"Attention and intention are the mechanics of manifestation". Deepak Chopra M.D.

[st.byron]

But what I've been responding to in this thread is questioning of the motives and actions and account of the alleged victim (without fully knowing what they are), questioning the seriousness of the alleged crime, and the disputing of the notion that this can reasonably be discussed and categorised as an alleged violent crime by a man against a woman.

Now I think I've given it a good run, and if you think I'm way off the mark that's fine (honestly). If you think I'm being 'stampy' (?) then I'm sorry, but I'm just responding while I'm trying to do (and should be doing) other things.

Cheers.

Fair enough. I agree with you that there are a minority who have posted things that minimise the issue violence against women and that it's disturbing. Thanks for taking the time to find the examples. Glad to see your agreement that not everyone on the forum thinks like this. We're actually pretty much on the same page.

[st.byron]

Saw this today....

By Andrew Barnes :

Having seen numerous quotes and discussion about men needing to be Knights in shining armour etc I felt drawn to write. It is interesting that a lot of the discussion is about how men are supposed to be, how strong or weak they are. If they are not inline with expectations, that it is ok to shame them using quite derogatory terms.

There seems to be a low level of misandry within some of the discussion which is concerning, and I'm feeling sadness in my heart about this. Of course misandry is just as damaging to men and to communities as misogyny is damaging to women and society. If we are going to end the war of the sexes and start to create a world were we can have more loving, caring, intimate, open, trusting relationships between women and men this cannot continue.
What if men's control, manipulation and avoidance strategies were seen and understood as a part of their emotional wounding and social conditioning, and given the same compassion and understanding as women's control, manipulation and avoidance strategies often are due to their wounding and conditioning.

Shaming men is not going to support evolution just as disempowering women will not either. I'm not saying except behaviour that is unacceptable, dealing with this maturely requires knowing what we want and don't want and using excellent communication and boundary setting skills to create safety for ourselves.
Everything is about reflection including what men and women we attract into our lives.. We attract them because they match our vibrational frequency and our emotional level. The question is not about how the other is suppose to change or what they should be doing for us, rather what is the reflection of everything inside of myself that is not love.

Regardless of being born a female or a male we are all part of a culture that is not supporting the exploration of our maximum potential as beings. So therefore it is up to us as individuals regardless of what genitals we were born with to take responsibility for our resentments, fears and projections. We are so much more than this, all of us.

[asiu]

Shame.
... the Sword of Judgement wielded

Against Self
Against our Other Selves

Should Have Already Mastered Everything

imo , we all live the same story
(though dressed a little differently in varying degrees)

tis a crazy planet to pop out onto.
... though , That seems to be Its Purpose.

[saintbrat]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/police ... 6415f5fdf2
RICHMOND’S Dustin Martin will not face any police action for threatening to stab a woman with a chopstick.

The Herald Sun understands Martin has been told police will no longer pursue the criminal matter after the woman involved decided not to make a statement.

The woman said she wanted to protect herself from being identified at any potential future court hearing.

But she said the AFL and Richmond should now press ahead with their inquiry which she has co-operated with.


Police reviewed CCTV footage and spoke to several witnesses. Picture: Steward McLean
She said the league needed to take a tough stand against men who behaved aggressively towards women.

Martin has apologised to the woman over the incident at Chapel St’s trendy Mr Miyagi earlier this month.

A Victoria Police statement said: “Detectives from Stonnington Criminal Investigation Unit have conducted an extensive investigation after reports a woman was threatened by a man at a Chapel Street restaurant in Windsor on 5 December.”

“After reviewing CCTV footage and speaking to all parties involved, including numerous independent witnesses at the restaurant on the night, investigators determined that no criminal offence took place.

“Police take all reports of violence towards women seriously and investigate all complaints thoroughly.”

[BadRossco]

Dusty can play a bit so this was always going to be swept under the carpet. Same as the Hawthorn rape investigation. Good players and strong clubs have a different set of rules to fringe players from lower clubs sad but true.

[Moods]

Basically the woman didn't wish to make a statement. As I said all along, without a statement the police have nothing. But hey, as long as well meaning nuffies in newspapers scream that the police should take action, ppl will listen.

[skeptic]

“After reviewing CCTV footage and speaking to all parties involved, including numerous independent witnesses at the restaurant on the night, investigators determined that no criminal offence took place.”

I cant help but be a little miffed at this statement

Isn't it correct to say... Ummh yes it did, it was just decided that charges would not be pressed