Dustin Martin

[desertsaint]

Who is denying women can be and are violent, and towards men?

Who? Where?

What we've got here is an alleged act of violence by a man against a woman (and if you can't accept the events as reported or alleged as violence, then geez....) and several people addressing the discussion in those terms.

But some other people seem to have a real problem with that, when I'd have thought it's entirely reasonable.

Somehow it's not ok to even have a seperate discussion about, or category of violence against women.

Maybe you have a problem with breast cancer awareness campaigns too, because men also get breast cancer, and prostate cancer... or save the whales, because there are other endangered creatures out there.

Talk about your men's issues all you like, but why (and how can you) deny and denigrate the issue of male on female violence?

markp i think the argument proposed is that you can't seperate male violence against women from violence fullstop, let alone from male violence. To ignore the latter in order to concentrate on the former will achieve nothing. Speak out against violence in all forms or it will simply continue to fester if somehow magically expected to be banished in just one form.
My sister (a pretty strong feminist that works with domestic offenders) sees violence as mainly prepertrated through control, and physical violence is actually pretty low in comparison. She sees it mainly as a male against female phenonemon - mainly due to traditional norms whereby the man is king of the house. These norms must be shattered. But we differ, her and I, on where the focus should be. I believe in approaching it from a gender neutral perspective because, as she admits, the traditional 'masculine' role is sometimes taken by the female. To ignore victims on the basis of gender is discrimination and allows the problem to continue.

[st.byron]

But maybe you can explain to me why you're so horrified by the homicides of 78 women, but don't seem fussed by the fact that double that number of men have been murdered - I am still trying to get my head around why the gender of the victim matters - they are all dead, so why are the dead females deemed so much more worthy of our concern than the dead males, of whom there are twice as many?

I see the signed up Feminists and their white knights still aren't prepared to answer the questions?

Why does gender matter? Why, when males are murdered at twice the rate of females, are there deaths somehow less important?

And the answer to the question is - there are no shelters for male victims of domestic abuse, despite the fact that at least one third of all Australian victims are male. And more reliable figures from the USA and Western Europe from hundreds of studies over many years indicate the truer figure is more like 45%.

But of course that doesn't fit the desired narrative so there's thing you can can have a crack at without actually ever addressing it.

Incidentally, no-one yet has indicated how Martin was actually violent - did he punch the woman, or kick her, or strike a blow with a cudgel?

So far I've only actually heard that he mouthed off, but everyone is talking about "men's violence to women" so there must be way more to it than that.........yes???

TB, it's not that male deaths are less important. And I get what you're saying about male victimhood being swept under the carpet in the light of White Ribbon and other causes designed to raise awareness of violence against women. There's no question that services catering to male victims are very very thin compared to those supporting women - it's also very much the case in cases of sexual assault. And there's no doubt that there is a cultural narrative of belittling men and portraying them as stupid, violent and bumbling. As a man I find this painful and frustrating.

But.......the fact is that men perpetrate the violence way more than women do. This is the guts of it. I feel women have very very legitimate reasons to be pointing the finger at men. Put yourself in a woman's shoes for a moment and switch the stats around. If women were perpetrating violent crimes at 4 times the rate of men - and if men were victims of violent crime at 4 times the rate of women (I don't accept removing the sexual assault figures from the equation), if those were the circumstances, don't you think as a man you might have a beef with the female gender and you might respond to a woman complaining about unacknowledged female victims with WTF ?

[st.byron]

Incidentally, no-one yet has indicated how Martin was actually violent - did he punch the woman, or kick her, or strike a blow with a cudgel?

So far I've only actually heard that he mouthed off, but everyone is talking about "men's violence to women" so there must be way more to it than that.........yes???

And re the above......do you not regard threatening someone with stabbing and slamming a fist into a wall next to their head as violent?

[markp]

So the violence perpetrated against men is mostly by men, and sometimes women.

And the violence perpetrated against women is mostly by men, and sometimes women.

There are a plethora of distinctive issues surrounding each of these variations, relating to things like sex and power and ingrained cultural dynamics. In each of them

But we can't, and women can't, have a seperate discourse or campaign for violence against women (the group that suffers most from a disparity), and men can't support it.

Ok.

[White Winmar]

Who is denying women can be and are violent, and towards men?

Who? Where?

What we've got here is an alleged act of violence by a man against a woman (and if you can't accept the events as reported or alleged as violence, then geez....) and several people addressing the discussion in those terms.

But some other people seem to have a real problem with that, when I'd have thought it's entirely reasonable.

Somehow it's not ok to even have a seperate discussion about, or category of violence against women.

Maybe you have a problem with breast cancer awareness campaigns too, because men also get breast cancer, and prostate cancer... or save the whales, because there are other endangered creatures out there.

Talk about your men's issues all you like, but why (and how can you) deny and denigrate the issue of male on female violence?

Sorry, markp, but I don't think you are being objective. I've clearly stated that violence against women is wrong and that we need to do everything we can to stop it. It's just the way the "debate" (by definition a debate needs two sides) is being conducted, you'd be forgiven for thinking that men are solely to blame and can somehow fix the problem. The facts show that it is far from a single gender issue when it comes to causes and outcomes. The stats I've quoted are consistent with my personal experience of the issue over 25 years as a "first responder".

[markp]

It's just the way the "debate" (by definition a debate needs two sides) is being conducted, you'd be forgiven for thinking that men are solely to blame and can somehow fix the problem.

Yeah I can't say that's been my observation.

[White Winmar]

So who speaks for men in the mass media on this issue? Who's our spokesman/group? How many times do we see women commenting on this issue, compared to men? I sometimes consult to a group of communications managers. They've briefed me on the sort of tactics that are used to manipulate issues. I'll get some more figures for you on media time etc., that is devoted to various arguments. The media can't tell you what you think, but they certainly can tell you what to think about. I think, given your experience, you'll be surprised. I think a bit of confirmation bias might be at play here.

[st.byron]

I've clearly stated that violence against women is wrong and that we need to do everything we can to stop it. It's just the way the "debate" (by definition a debate needs two sides) is being conducted, you'd be forgiven for thinking that men are solely to blame and can somehow fix the problem. The facts show that it is far from a single gender issue when it comes to causes and outcomes.

Totally agree with this and I reckon it's the guts of True Believer's issue. That in the wave of emotion and genuine need of women to finally speak up and be heard about the violence being perpetrated against them, men are all tarred with the same brush and the fact that men are also victims is lost or ignored. It's certainly my experience as a male victim.
And I agree with WW that you're not being objective Mark. To me you are coming across as not being willing to look at the perspective of male victims.

[st.byron]

So who speaks for men in the mass media on this issue? Who's our spokesman/group?

And you don't have to look very hard to find plenty of examples of men being portrayed in adverts, sit-coms, cartoons and opinion pieces in the media as buffoons. Stupid, incompetent, bumbling, useless, dumb. There is definitely a cultural movement towards belitting and minismising men.

[White Winmar]

So who speaks for men in the mass media on this issue? Who's our spokesman/group?

And you don't have to look very hard to find plenty of examples of men being portrayed in adverts, sit-coms, cartoons and opinion pieces in the media as buffoons. Stupid, incompetent, bumbling, useless, dumb. There is definitely a cultural movement towards belitting and minismising men.

The misandry in the media is outrageous. I saw an article the other day on "reverse rape". This is the practice of refusing to have sex with morbidly obese women. A woman in the article stated "being rejected by men because you're fat, is worse than rape". I genuinely thought it was a pisstake. Oh no, it was serious, all right. What an insult to all victims of sexual assault. Imagine if the situation was reversed.

[asiu]

I work with the male victims of female inflicted violence. Yes, they do exist and are more common than you think.

being one of those males , this discussion is very close to the bone for me.
... threats against my daughters life , forced me to involve the Police.

Once i named the perpetrator and files were accessed ,
the reality of my situation was instantly apparent in the demeanour
of the Policewoman who was dealing with me and the growing involvement
of other Officers.
... getting me to actually agree to give and sign a statement took some work ,
4 of her cigarettes actually ... for i was loathe to do so
(and to this day , i wish that i had not)

Photos of my damage (and my unmarked fists) an AVDO applied for on my /our behalf and a Force keen to nail one very dangerous woman did not ease my concerns of a decision incorrectly made.

and so it turned out.
... besides receiving a 'visit' from an Israeli henchman , i then watched
she who was known as the *edit* , play the system like a musical instrument.

the Police lost the case in Court , in front of a female Magistrate ,
after i was interrogated for nearly 4 hours by a female Solicitor ,
goin around and around and around on a 5 minute incident.
and then having a tit for tat AVDO that she had taken out against me through the Courts
extended for 12 months ... which (she made sure of) made my movements around my
turf , wary business on another front


There is a section of the Sisterhood , growing more powerful by the day,
who promote and teach Nazism against men , not out of ignorance but vindictiveness.
... and its being taught to their daughters ... and the daughters are lapping it up.

The Feminazi's are big trouble coming down the line.
... the deceipt in Truth telling of whats really going on in our communities
regarding violence ... is playing into their hands.

... and we thought having our kids used as weapons against us was evil
in a relationship breakdown ... these things aim to turn our Daughters against us.

Catch up boys.
'n catch up quick.

Save your Daughters.


*edit*
... there ya go.
... theres an example of ongoing 'wariness' ... even now ... in here
Wow.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I've clearly stated that violence against women is wrong and that we need to do everything we can to stop it. It's just the way the "debate" (by definition a debate needs two sides) is being conducted, you'd be forgiven for thinking that men are solely to blame and can somehow fix the problem. The facts show that it is far from a single gender issue when it comes to causes and outcomes.

Totally agree with this and I reckon it's the guts of True Believer's issue. That in the wave of emotion and genuine need of women to finally speak up and be heard about the violence being perpetrated against them, men are all tarred with the same brush and the fact that men are also victims is lost or ignored. It's certainly my experience as a male victim.
And I agree with WW that you're not being objective Mark. To me you are coming across as not being willing to look at the perspective of male victims.

While you lot have turned this into a parlour game, the facts are that men are the perputaters of almost all the violence in society.

There are numerous women's refuges for women and children. This is to protect mother and child from a violent partner overwhelmingly men.
How many refuges are there for abused men in comparison?

Men might not like the truth but stiff. 78 women didn't like getting murdered and countless women and children didn't like getting g abused both physically and mentally.

But if you guys really feel aggrieved you can always abuse Clem Ford or Susan Carlin on social media. Lots of nice examples of what many men think of women there.

So in conclusion I really don't care if you think the "debate" is not framed to your comfortable specifications, this issue is too serious to worry.
Actually this thread is a real concern and shows why this issue needs to he pushed.

[White Winmar]

BM, you're post is offensive to all victims of violence, particularly men. If that post is the best example of what you can contribute to the debate, I suggest you remain silent on the issue. That's the way, isn't it? Abuse and ridicule people. That'll bring them around to your way of thinking for sure. Come to work with me, examine the wreckage that is wrought by your harmless and innocent sisters and then comment.

As for your laughable suggestion about refuges, again I invite you to come with me to te various boarding houses, psych. wards, prisons and yes, refuge/shelters, inhabited by men because there is simply nowhere else to go, or no one to represent them. We can also hit the streets, where the people who make their homes there, are overwhelmingly male. PM me privately and I'll organise a "tour" of the consequences of violence by women on men and children. I'm sure some of my brothers and clients would be most interested to have you espouse your enlightened views to them. A parlour game? Yep, death, suicide, broken lives. All a parlour game. It would be to you. Two posters have actually shared their pain with us and all you can do is heap scorn on them.

You wouldn't realise it, but you make my point for me. Your attitude is part of the problem. Thankyou. Talk to victims of crime. They all agree that the greatest evil is not inflicted by the perpetrator. It is the indifference and scorn of the bystander that hurts the most. I know you love getting a rise out of people and take delight in lobbing grenades into arguments, but I sincerely hope you've made a very poor and misguided attempt at humour or irony.

The way your post is written, littered as it is with typos and nonsensical phrases, indicates you may be affected by substances or overcome with misguided anger. The real concern on this issue is your post. I'm happy to assist you in whatever way you feel necessary, even if that's just you telling me to not bother you. That would be my pleasure.

[White Winmar]

Thanks for sharing, Windsister. I know how hard that is, even on an internet forum, where you are relatively anonymous. As you can see, though, the ignorant will always find a way to offend. It's their special skill. Your story is one that is rarely, if ever told. Certainly not in public, and never in the media. It doesn't fit the myths that allow various interest groups to gain funding and power, thereby justifying their ongoing existence. Meanwhile, people keep getting hurt and keep dying.

As you pointed out, there is a real danger to the very people the "feminazis" are supposed to be protecting. All they are doing with their distortions and outright lies, is alienating another generation of young men, who know their fathers, brothers, friends and colleagues are overwhelmingly decent people, who abhor violence and would never perpetrate it. They've also seen that abuse, both physical and psychological, is not the exclusive preserve of the male gender. That is the real danger. Push too far and you do more harm than good.

[To the top]

"the facts are that men are the perputators of almost all violence in society"

Try telling my (now adult) kids that.

Then we get to false allegations - and they are made with impunity from my experience, including hawking children around jurisdictions in various States in regards allegations of the sexual abuse of a child.

Whilst those jurisdictions did not act in regards the making of false, and knowingly false allegations a Notation to Family Court of Australia Orders, sealed at Court, played its part in the end event being the Final Hearing.

"this thread is a real concern and shows why this issue needs to be pushed"

I agree, because EVERY child (particularly), woman and man should have the confidence that they live in a safe, secure and supportive society.

Going back in time, I was approached by a father (a friend of a friend) seeking what I could not offer - he did not have the financial resource to make application to the Family Court of Australia and rarely saw his children.

To point him in the direction of legal representation and an application at the Family Court of Australia was not an option - and all I could offer was just continue to be yourself and live your life - your children will get older and they will be the instigator of contact.

Trite, and I was troubled because here was a very, very decent man and father devastated by his circumstances in regards contact with his children.

What I subsequently learnt was the he had successfully applied for an overseas posting - and he had committed suicide on that posting.

He returned to Australia in a coffin.


YOUR presentations and summaries are not the be all and end all - by a long, long way.

[White Winmar]

Amen TTT. Amen.

[asiu]

u'd know my personality by now bloke ,
i can go hard but fair comes first.

('n i really hope thats how i'm seen)

'n i'm not anti woman

(the only unconditional love i receive on this planet ,
is from my daughter)

('n i love a set of calves in heels)

but like everything it seems ,
Truth manipulated invades our societies in ways unseen and unneeded ,
on so many levels ... 'n from there sources the distortions.

imoooc ... its a , tell the truth issue.

[Dis Believer]

I've clearly stated that violence against women is wrong and that we need to do everything we can to stop it. It's just the way the "debate" (by definition a debate needs two sides) is being conducted, you'd be forgiven for thinking that men are solely to blame and can somehow fix the problem. The facts show that it is far from a single gender issue when it comes to causes and outcomes.

Totally agree with this and I reckon it's the guts of True Believer's issue. That in the wave of emotion and genuine need of women to finally speak up and be heard about the violence being perpetrated against them, men are all tarred with the same brush and the fact that men are also victims is lost or ignored. It's certainly my experience as a male victim.
And I agree with WW that you're not being objective Mark. To me you are coming across as not being willing to look at the perspective of male victims.

While you lot have turned this into a parlour game, the facts are that men are the perputaters of almost all the violence in society.

There are numerous women's refuges for women and children. This is to protect mother and child from a violent partner overwhelmingly men.
How many refuges are there for abused men in comparison?

Men might not like the truth but stiff. 78 women didn't like getting murdered and countless women and children didn't like getting g abused both physically and mentally.

But if you guys really feel aggrieved you can always abuse Clem Ford or Susan Carlin on social media. Lots of nice examples of what many men think of women there.

So in conclusion I really don't care if you think the "debate" is not framed to your comfortable specifications, this issue is too serious to worry.
Actually this thread is a real concern and shows why this issue needs to he pushed.

Right, so basically in your eyes male victims of anything can suck it up, because female victims have been declared more important ??!! Bet you couldn't wait to hop on board with #batheinmaletears and #killallmen. So the fact that 80% of all homeless people are male, and 80% of all suicides are male, and two-thirds of all homicide victims are male, and whatever other stats you want to delve into that shoe that males are actually trailing females in our community in all measures that indicate quality of life, all of that s*** means nothing because 75% of perpetrators are male, so sorry victims, no tits, no count.

And don't drag kids into it, as I already pointed out, kids are twice as likely to be abused by their mother as they are there father.

And if anyone wants to know why I said sexual assault stats should be put to one side, it's because those vested interests changed the narrative on that too, by controlling the language we use, so they get to set the definitions in order to manipulate data to suit their narrative. Notice we are not referring to rape any more, but sexual assault. Now rape is by nature a violent act, and a very strict definition. But sexual assault on the other hand can mean anything from a gang rape in a back alley to someone uninvited touching a woman's buttock or breast on a crowded train or tram. Whilst that is undoubtedly an invasion of her person, and space, and possibly somewhat traumatic, I cannot imagine anyone would try and describe it as violent.

[markp]

So who speaks for men in the mass media on this issue? Who's our spokesman/group? How many times do we see women commenting on this issue, compared to men? I sometimes consult to a group of communications managers. They've briefed me on the sort of tactics that are used to manipulate issues. I'll get some more figures for you on media time etc., that is devoted to various arguments. The media can't tell you what you think, but they certainly can tell you what to think about. I think, given your experience, you'll be surprised. I think a bit of confirmation bias might be at play here.

Whose fault is that?

Is it women's?

The media's?

How did the violence against women campaign get started?... By victims maybe?

And do you think it's been victorious, successful, job done, and/or is swimming in funding?

What I don't think I'd recommend as a helpful tactic is to deride and sneer (as some have been) when a case like this is framed as an incidence of violence against women, because, y'know, it is.

If we were talking about a public and relevant to this forum case of rape or violence against a man and framed the discussion in the wider context of rape and violence against men, but women started posting that it was an invalid discussion (and in some cases being pretty vile about it) because women are suffering as much/ more / too, then people would be rightly affronted.

Isn't to denigrate in such a way, when this is exactly an instance of a man being (allegedly) violent towards a woman, denigrating all such awareness campaigns?

How's that going to encourage more men to emerge from the shadows?

And while we're on men, aren't men dominant in virtually every major public institution you could name in this country? And haven't they been so since the year dot?

Yet men are being under-represented here?.... Couldn't that just be a male issue? Or is it women holding them back?

[markp]

I've clearly stated that violence against women is wrong and that we need to do everything we can to stop it. It's just the way the "debate" (by definition a debate needs two sides) is being conducted, you'd be forgiven for thinking that men are solely to blame and can somehow fix the problem. The facts show that it is far from a single gender issue when it comes to causes and outcomes.

Totally agree with this and I reckon it's the guts of True Believer's issue. That in the wave of emotion and genuine need of women to finally speak up and be heard about the violence being perpetrated against them, men are all tarred with the same brush and the fact that men are also victims is lost or ignored. It's certainly my experience as a male victim.
And I agree with WW that you're not being objective Mark. To me you are coming across as not being willing to look at the perspective of male victims.

And I would say the people least likely to be entirely objective here (and understandably so) are people with painful and traumatic experiences on one side of the ledger or the other.

All I've been doing is fending off absurd assertions (in some instances), and reminding that this is a case of (alleged) violence by a man against a woman, so a discussion of it as such is entirely reasonable.

[evo]

While thIs case has made headline news for days the "Hawthorn rape case" seems to have gone strangely quiet.

[st.byron]

And I would say the people least likely to be entirely objective here (and understandably so) are people with painful and traumatic experiences on one side of the ledger or the other.

All I've been doing is fending off absurd assertions (in some instances), and reminding that this is a case of (alleged) violence by a man against a woman, so a discussion of it as such is entirely reasonable.

I agree with most of what you're saying Mark.
There's no justification for Martin's behaviour.
Men perpetrate far and away the majority of physical violence.
Women have every right and are totally justified in calling men to account on it and men need to show up as men, own it and take steps in their own lives to eliminate it.

But.....I also feel that any attempt to broaden the discussion into how violence effects both genders is being invalidated by you - and Bunk as well - on the grounds that doing so somehow minimises the impact of violence on women. I don't think this is the case. I agree with you that there are still plenty of men who deny violence against women and a deep and broad cultural shift is needed. AND.......a deep and broad cultural shift is needed about violence full stop, regardless of gender.
Fixing the problem needs an inclusive solution, not more finger pointing and blame.

[markp]

But.....I also feel that any attempt to broaden the discussion into how violence effects both genders is being invalidated by you - and Bunk as well - on the grounds that doing so somehow minimises the impact of violence on women. I don't think this is the case. I agree with you that there are still plenty of men who deny violence against women and a deep and broad cultural shift is needed. AND.......a deep and broad cultural shift is needed about violence full stop, regardless of gender.
Fixing the problem needs an inclusive solution, not more finger pointing and blame.

Is 'any attempt to broaden the discussion' a euphemism for attacking and denigrating and dismissing the very notion of a violence against women discourse and campaign?

It must be.

If people acknowledged that this is a case of (alleged) male violence against a woman, and that for many it reasonably leads to a discussion of such (because let's not forget this thread is about a particular incident that fits into that particular category), rather than denying it outright, even as a legitimate notion (in some cases horribly so), and then sought to broaden the discussion, they might find a more cohesive outcome.

But that's not what they are doing, and that's not what they're after.

[Bunk_Moreland]

BM, you're post is offensive to all victims of violence, particularly men. If that post is the best example of what you can contribute to the debate, I suggest you remain silent on the issue. That's the way, isn't it? Abuse and ridicule people. That'll bring them around to your way of thinking for sure. Come to work with me, examine the wreckage that is wrought by your harmless and innocent sisters and then comment.

As for your laughable suggestion about refuges, again I invite you to come with me to te various boarding houses, psych. wards, prisons and yes, refuge/shelters, inhabited by men because there is simply nowhere else to go, or no one to represent them. We can also hit the streets, where the people who make their homes there, are overwhelmingly male. PM me privately and I'll organise a "tour" of the consequences of violence by women on men and children. I'm sure some of my brothers and clients would be most interested to have you espouse your enlightened views to them. A parlour game? Yep, death, suicide, broken lives. All a parlour game. It would be to you. Two posters have actually shared their pain with us and all you can do is heap scorn on them.

You wouldn't realise it, but you make my point for me. Your attitude is part of the problem. Thankyou. Talk to victims of crime. They all agree that the greatest evil is not inflicted by the perpetrator. It is the indifference and scorn of the bystander that hurts the most. I know you love getting a rise out of people and take delight in lobbing grenades into arguments, but I sincerely hope you've made a very poor and misguided attempt at humour or irony.

The way your post is written, littered as it is with typos and nonsensical phrases, indicates you may be affected by substances or overcome with misguided anger. The real concern on this issue is your post. I'm happy to assist you in whatever way you feel necessary, even if that's just you telling me to not bother you. That would be my pleasure.

Lol love the projection.

Listen you and the others on here have skewed and hijacked the conversation and argument then play the victim.
When there is a thread about a male being attacked by a female, I will post on that.

And yes you and you hijacking males on this thread have turned it into a parlour game. I find your victim. mentality appalling.
I will also tell my sister who was bashed unconcious by her first husband to suck it up because some bloke on an Internet forum said it happens to men as well.

I find your post and attitude offensive. A white male trying to take the focus from the issue at hand.

As for critiquing about typos etc. Shows your lack of an argument. I do a lot of this from my phone so live with it.

Any word on all those men's refuges compared to women. Any stats on which sex perputaters most crimes.

Oh and apparently we can't mention children or sex crimes because they are inconvenient to the argument.

God what an attitude you people have.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I've clearly stated that violence against women is wrong and that we need to do everything we can to stop it. It's just the way the "debate" (by definition a debate needs two sides) is being conducted, you'd be forgiven for thinking that men are solely to blame and can somehow fix the problem. The facts show that it is far from a single gender issue when it comes to causes and outcomes.

Totally agree with this and I reckon it's the guts of True Believer's issue. That in the wave of emotion and genuine need of women to finally speak up and be heard about the violence being perpetrated against them, men are all tarred with the same brush and the fact that men are also victims is lost or ignored. It's certainly my experience as a male victim.
And I agree with WW that you're not being objective Mark. To me you are coming across as not being willing to look at the perspective of male victims.

While you lot have turned this into a parlour game, the facts are that men are the perputaters of almost all the violence in society.

There are numerous women's refuges for women and children. This is to protect mother and child from a violent partner overwhelmingly men.
How many refuges are there for abused men in comparison?

Men might not like the truth but stiff. 78 women didn't like getting murdered and countless women and children didn't like getting g abused both physically and mentally.

But if you guys really feel aggrieved you can always abuse Clem Ford or Susan Carlin on social media. Lots of nice examples of what many men think of women there.

So in conclusion I really don't care if you think the "debate" is not framed to your comfortable specifications, this issue is too serious to worry.
Actually this thread is a real concern and shows why this issue needs to he pushed.

Right, so basically in your eyes male victims of anything can suck it up, because female victims have been declared more important ??!! Bet you couldn't wait to hop on board with #batheinmaletears and #killallmen. So the fact that 80% of all homeless people are male, and 80% of all suicides are male, and two-thirds of all homicide victims are male, and whatever other stats you want to delve into that shoe that males are actually trailing females in our community in all measures that indicate quality of life, all of that s*** means nothing because 75% of perpetrators are male, so sorry victims, no tits, no count.

And don't drag kids into it, as I already pointed out, kids are twice as likely to be abused by their mother as they are there father.

And if anyone wants to know why I said sexual assault stats should be put to one side, it's because those vested interests changed the narrative on that too, by controlling the language we use, so they get to set the definitions in order to manipulate data to suit their narrative. Notice we are not referring to rape any more, but sexual assault. Now rape is by nature a violent act, and a very strict definition. But sexual assault on the other hand can mean anything from a gang rape in a back alley to someone uninvited touching a woman's buttock or breast on a crowded train or tram. Whilst that is undoubtedly an invasion of her person, and space, and possibly somewhat traumatic, I cannot imagine anyone would try and describe it as violent.

So no stats on men's shelters compared to women's and which sex perpetuates all this violence?

Just more of the skewed conspiracy theory and political diatribe.

And please don't tell me what I think about crime. To this thread it is not relevant. Thre thread has been hijacked by men with vested interests trying to dilute the violence towards women (which in fact this threads real topic is due to a males violence toward a woman).

TB I don't know what problem you have with woman, and it is not my responsibility however an independent reader of you responses to women on this thread would, I suspect not put you in a good light.

Question. Do you respect women and their right not to be victims of violence?

Just a Yes or no answer. No yes buts...

If yes, leave it at that. If no?

Has the thread on violence towards men started on the GF yet?