Dustin Martin

[markp]

Going well here I see.

So we've had comments about why a 14 year old girl was out at 3am as a possible contributing factor to why she was gang raped (I blame the parents....), and men demanding we should really be talking about violence against men here, not women (I'm sorry, the fact that this was a case of a man being violent towards a woman must have helped temporarily sway it).

Carry on.

You seemed to have missed the point again (in your second statement, not your first) this is about violence full stop. In particular alcohol fuelled violence. In my humble opinion that is, but carry on making it about gender.

Fact is this is a case of a man being violent towards a woman. But you're right let's make it about all violence.

Factually incorrect. It's about a PERSON who THREATENED another PERSON because that PERSON confronted him about his boorish behaviour. He didn't do it because she was female, he did it because she confronted him about his conduct, and if you think he would have acted differently towards anyone else that did what she did, then you are probably incorrect.

Ok.

Are we allowed to use anyone's name, coz that kinda defines them as other than a genderless amorphic being.

Fk me.

[markp]

Going well here I see.

So we've had comments about why a 14 year old girl was out at 3am as a possible contributing factor to why she was gang raped (I blame the parents....), and men demanding we should really be talking about violence against men here, not women (I'm sorry, the fact that this was a case of a man being violent towards a woman must have helped temporarily sway it).

Carry on.

Actually no, I don't think we should be talking about violence against men, and I didn't say that, I posited that people that actually give a f*** would be talking about violence, full stop, without the need to mindlessly regurgitate feminist ideology whereby every issue has to be reduced to one of gender, inclusive of lemming like sloganeering.

Why don't you go right ahead and talk about violence full stop yourself and not demand that others not talk about violence against women if they wish?

#AllLivesMatter huh?

Ooh look, clicktivism, well done you online hashtag awareness raiser. Actually I thought this thread was about a footballer in trouble for bad behaviour again! Not about violence against women, you're mistaking it for the Clementine Ford blog where you can bathe in male tears. And if we're sticking to facts, what was the violence? I thought he made some loud mouthed threats?

I don't know what was done to you but it's not my problem.

[st.byron]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... jvhbt.html

" Find your way down to any of the courts and you will notice one thing: men. men are everywhere.
It is a fact of modern Australia that men have a greater tendency to commit crime than women, four times more likely according to ABS data.
And with that, women are three times more likely to be victims of crime and almost twice as likely to be stalked.

Whether it is Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull with Rosie Batty pledging action on domestic violence, or Liza Harvey and Karl O'Callaghan looking for greater police resources we skirt around the issue. Men need to own this........."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... z3tvP0cYNl


The author touches on some of the core issues about why the situation is like it is. Why are men so much more physically violent?

[markp]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... jvhbt.html

" Find your way down to any of the courts and you will notice one thing: men. men are everywhere.
It is a fact of modern Australia that men have a greater tendency to commit crime than women, four times more likely according to ABS data.
And with that, women are three times more likely to be victims of crime and almost twice as likely to be stalked.

Whether it is Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull with Rosie Batty pledging action on domestic violence, or Liza Harvey and Karl O'Callaghan looking for greater police resources we skirt around the issue. Men need to own this........."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... z3tvP0cYNl


The author touches on some of the core issues about why the situation is like it is. Why are men so much more physically violent?

Can't be true... and anyway we're not allowed to discuss it.

[st.byron]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... jvhbt.html

" Find your way down to any of the courts and you will notice one thing: men. men are everywhere.
It is a fact of modern Australia that men have a greater tendency to commit crime than women, four times more likely according to ABS data.
And with that, women are three times more likely to be victims of crime and almost twice as likely to be stalked.

Whether it is Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull with Rosie Batty pledging action on domestic violence, or Liza Harvey and Karl O'Callaghan looking for greater police resources we skirt around the issue. Men need to own this........."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... z3tvP0cYNl


The author touches on some of the core issues about why the situation is like it is. Why are men so much more physically violent?

Can't be true... and anyway we're not allowed to discuss it.

I don't think anyone on here condones violence. I also don't think there's much to be gained from point scoring off one another about who's right and wrong. That approach, to me, is not going to encourage anyone to broaden their perspective on the issue. As soon as someone is made "wrong" - i.e " I'm right, you're wrong and you're - stupid, sexist, misogynist etc" there's not much scope for anyone to have an open mind and open heart. It's clearly a very charged issue, especially for anyone who has been a victim or knows someone who has been a victim. The fact is that a clear majority of violent crime is perpetrated by men. Why is it so an what needs to be done to change it?

[markp]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... jvhbt.html

" Find your way down to any of the courts and you will notice one thing: men. men are everywhere.
It is a fact of modern Australia that men have a greater tendency to commit crime than women, four times more likely according to ABS data.
And with that, women are three times more likely to be victims of crime and almost twice as likely to be stalked.

Whether it is Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull with Rosie Batty pledging action on domestic violence, or Liza Harvey and Karl O'Callaghan looking for greater police resources we skirt around the issue. Men need to own this........."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... z3tvP0cYNl


The author touches on some of the core issues about why the situation is like it is. Why are men so much more physically violent?

Can't be true... and anyway we're not allowed to discuss it.

I don't think anyone on here condones violence. I also don't think there's much to be gained from point scoring off one another about who's right and wrong. That approach, to me, is not going to encourage anyone to broaden their perspective on the issue. As soon as someone is made "wrong" - i.e " I'm right, you're wrong and you're - stupid, sexist, misogynist etc" there's not much scope for anyone to have an open mind and open heart. It's clearly a very charged issue, especially for anyone who has been a victim or knows someone who has been a victim. The fact is that a clear majority of violent crime is perpetrated by men. Why is it so an what needs to be done to change it?

Step one would be convincing most people to accept and acknowledge that fact.

Once that happens get back to me... or one of my grandchildren.

[skeptic]

Given what we know (and really even no matter what she could have said, but let's put that aside), her responsibility for being violently threatened with stabbing and murder is zero.

Yes or no?

This has been answered repeatedly. NO.

No one is arguing that the lady brought it on herself or deserved to be abused etc.

She is entitled to do this without risk of violence...

Nobody is arguing that Dusty isn't 100% in the wrong. That part of the debate was never in question.

I think Dustin Martin is an idiot. I hope they ban him for a year. He was completely 100% in the wrong and he put this lady, and the other guests in an uncomfortable position. He is likely such a mega-narcissist that he probably didn't even care. If the matter had gotten violent, he would have been the one to initiate it and it would have been COMPLETELY 100% HIS FAULT.

It's clear that we're not going go reach any clear resolution on this so all I can really add is that none of us are in a position in life where we can realistically control other people's behaviour.

Let's say she called him a C@n@! (very bad word) and that sets him off and he attacks her. It doesn't make it okay for him to do that... it's not justified. She doesn't bring it on herself.

I uh, don’t know how else to articulate this point to you. That’s 7 times that I alone have reiterated this and multiple other posters have too.

I can only assume at this point that you’re either
a) Not reading my posts
b) Winding me up
c) Are so focused on your own argument that you’re actually arguing with yourself
d) Really just can’t grasp the concept that being discussed

How can you not see that by denying that you are apportioning blame and as Bunk points out therefore mitigating his responsibility.

He's either 100% responsible for threatening to stab and murder her or he's not.

Can you give me ONE example, preferably a quote of where I have said that Martin is not responsible for his behaviour, or that she antagonised him and brought it that’s her fault?

I have said repeatedly that I don’t believe her action was the safest/wisest response… and I’ve repeatedly stated that that doesn’t mean Martin was entitled to abuse her.
Is this the part that’s bothering you? What about this is wrong?

Put up or shut up because at the moment your argument can be boiled down to “I’m because I say I’m right” and “this is what you’re saying” when it’s clearly not.

It's really not that complicated.

Actually for you I think it really is.
You not only are failing to grasp what is being said, but you don’t understand what you don’t understand.

I don’t know how else to explain it to you.

One more analogy…
If I’m out drinking with my friends and I get drunk. It’s my intent to drive home so I wait 2-3 hours at the end of the night (without drinking) before deciding that I think I’m sober enough to drive home.

On the way home, I stop at a red light. The light turns green and as I move into the intersection I’m collected by a car that has run the red light and t-boned into me.

Despite being shaken I’m otherwise ok whereas the other driver is hurt.

Witnesses to the accident lay the blame entirely with the other driver because he ran the red light and I wasn’t speeding/swerving/swaying etc. Nonetheless my blood test indicates that my BAC = 0.08, hence I’m over the legal limit.

Is the accident my fault?
Did I make a bad decision to drive home?

Well that's a lot of work followed by another pointless analogy.

You continue to say "he is 100% responsible, but..."

If he is 100% responsible then there is no 'but'.

He threatened to stab and kill her while she was out having dinner because she said calm down.

I think you and I should simply agree to disagree.

Aaah no.

You won't give me examples because you can't.

By now you know you've dug yourself into a corner and can't get out. There is no "but".

That's the thing about posting on a forum... What you've written is plain for everyone to see and your attempts to mislead, shift and just out and out lie are transparent.

You actually have no argument on the table - the closest you get to is "you said this (which is outright not true), and here's my counter argument to what I'm saying".

Enjoy arguing with yourself

[Dave McNamara]

Actually no, I don't think we should be talking about violence against men, and I didn't say that, I posited that people that actually give a f*** would be talking about violence, full stop, without the need to mindlessly regurgitate feminist ideology whereby every issue has to be reduced to one of gender, inclusive of lemming like sloganeering.

I see what you've done there.

[Dave McNamara]

I don't know what was done to you but it's not my problem.

Be gentle mark.

Actually, 'Jimmy' has had a bad experience in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg6iMDfOl9E

[markp]

Can you give me ONE example, preferably a quote of where I have said that Martin is not responsible for his behaviour, or that she antagonised him and brought it that’s her fault?

I have said repeatedly that I don’t believe her action was the safest/wisest response… and I’ve repeatedly stated that that doesn’t mean Martin was entitled to abuse her.
Is this the part that’s bothering you? What about this is wrong?

Answer to your question is right below it.

That was easy.

Oh and you said 'she did in essence threaten him' and that made her more vulnerable and at risk from violence.

All I've said is he is either 100% responsible for threatening to stab and murder her or he's not.

You say you don't believe her actions were the safest/wisest, when we don't even know what those actions were, or what her choices were in those moments.

But she should have acted differently?

I then ask you how much responsibility for being threatened with stabbing and murder those (at least partially imagined) actions burden her with, and I tell you that no matter what she may have said, and especially based on reports of what was said, I see the answer as zero.

Now what you make of any of that is not my problem at all.

At least a poster earlier admitted/stated he didn't think martin was 100% responsible.

But you clearly can't apportion any responsibility/fault to anyone other than martin without seemingly mitigating his.

[markp]

I don't know what was done to you but it's not my problem.

Be gentle mark.

Actually, 'Jimmy' has had a bad experience in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg6iMDfOl9E

I said it's not my problem, not that I don't care.

[samuraisaint]

Mentors are vital for young men. Education professionals and child psychologists use research and data which suggests that the critical issue of adult development in young men comes down to several factors, but having the right role models are crucial for positive development.
Between 1-7 boys need mum around most.
8-14 boys as they become adolescents need their father/good stepfather.
15-21 adolescents males look to a male mentor outside the home to learn from and emulate.

They also suggest that boys start school too early in Australia and that kindergarten isn't necessary as it is better for them to be at home being nurtured by mum in the early years, which I don't know if I agree with 100%. I suppose building the strong bond with mum allows boys to build healthy relationships with females from birth.

[Bunk_Moreland]

The police will sort it out. Apparently they are fair and reasonable towards women

[The_Merchant]

The police will sort it out. Apparently they are fair and reasonable towards women

I would hope they are fair and reasonable against all victims of violence, regardless of gender. Although given recent issues highlighted within the police force, maybe they don't.

Perhaps the victims gender was a factor in this incident, perhaps it wasn't, dustin may not even know and we certainly don't. What we do know is that it is yet another young man who has had to much to drink and turned violent. We, as a society, need to look at the bigger picture and come up with ways to reduce this type of behaviour. Firstly, Martin needs to be made accountable for his actions, which Richmond and the police will do. Then we, as a society need to do more to prevent further incidents, because what we are doing now obviously isn't working.

[saynta]

I'll probably be crucified by the righteous do-gooders among us, but here goes;
This is not "violence against women" it is just violence.
We don't need to stop "violence against women", we need to stop violence.
A man or a woman has the right to question one's behaviour.
A man or a woman must decide what their actions may lead to.
Martin would have reacted the same way to this woman as he would have to a man.
The guy is a plonker of the highest order.
ALL violence must be stopped.

The question is. Was Martin's reaction to the woman pulling him up for his outrageous obnoxious behaviour foreseeable? Of course it was.

Would she do the same thing again? I very much doubt it.

And I am not being critical of the woman. She had every right to pull him on, but it was not something I would encourage anyone to do.

And those saying that the police can't take action without a complaint from the woman are wrong. As you are now witnessing

[saynta]

The police will sort it out. Apparently they are fair and reasonable towards women

Doesn't mean one of them won't try to get into her pants though.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I'll probably be crucified by the righteous do-gooders among us, but here goes;
This is not "violence against women" it is just violence.
We don't need to stop "violence against women", we need to stop violence.
A man or a woman has the right to question one's behaviour.
A man or a woman must decide what their actions may lead to.
Martin would have reacted the same way to this woman as he would have to a man.
The guy is a plonker of the highest order.
ALL violence must be stopped.

The question is. Was Martin's reaction to the woman pulling him up for his outrageous obnoxious behaviour foreseeable? Of course it was.

Would she do the same thing again? I very much doubt it.

And I am not being critical of the woman. She had every right to pull him on, but it was not something I would encourage anyone to do.

And those saying that the police can't take action without a complaint from the woman are wrong. As you are now witnessing

All fair and reasonable points.

As I have pointed out in previous posts it is not something I would personally do, especially with a thug drunk bogan like Martin, but, as you rightly point out, the woman has every right to ask a drunk who is obviously ruining her night to calm down.

Glad the police are involved. Threats to a persons life cannot be swept unde rthe carpet.

[#gosaintas]

Threats to a person's life...

kill you with a chopstick

laughable really - she should have stayed out of it. He' a tool and so's she.

[Dis Believer]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... jvhbt.html

" Find your way down to any of the courts and you will notice one thing: men. men are everywhere.
It is a fact of modern Australia that men have a greater tendency to commit crime than women, four times more likely according to ABS data.
And with that, women are three times more likely to be victims of crime and almost twice as likely to be stalked.

Whether it is Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull with Rosie Batty pledging action on domestic violence, or Liza Harvey and Karl O'Callaghan looking for greater police resources we skirt around the issue. Men need to own this........."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/alarmi ... z3tvP0cYNl


The author touches on some of the core issues about why the situation is like it is. Why are men so much more physically violent?

Wow, that's great, you provided an unsubstantiated opinion piece, penned by a diversity lecturer........

OK - Some real fact - violent crime overall in Australia has been DECREASING for 5 years. In 2014, there were 421 homicides in Australia, and 61% of the victims were male - in other words males were killed at nearly twice the rate of females.

Males outnumbered as victims of homicide, robbery and assault. The one area females dominated as victims is sexual assault, no surprise there. Your writer is using that and some ambiguous terminology to create a misleading article. Men are 4 times more likely to commit violent crime and 4 times more likely to be a victim of it.

But a couple of cases (Jill Meagher and Luke Batty), tragic as they are, seem to be SPECIAL in the eyes of some. I wonder why the likes of Miskycat aren't up in arms over the 8 kids butchered by their mother in Cairns a year ago, or the 3 kids driven into a lake by their mother who watched them drown? Is that not indicative of an epidemic of infanticide - should we be running campaigns to stop violence by women towards their children ??

And my source is the ABS...... http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf ... enDocument

[skeptic]

Like i said, attempts to shift the topic on a written forum are transparent - you have again failed to demonstrate me shifting blame to the victim which has been ur source of contention.

At best, you can say that I shouldn't make a call like that w/o all the facts.

That's fair enough but that is not what you'Ve been articulating

I doubt with all the facts that my view would change as I have been talking about this in fairly general terms

[ripplug66]

I'll probably be crucified by the righteous do-gooders among us, but here goes;
This is not "violence against women" it is just violence.
We don't need to stop "violence against women", we need to stop violence.
A man or a woman has the right to question one's behaviour.
A man or a woman must decide what their actions may lead to.
Martin would have reacted the same way to this woman as he would have to a man.
The guy is a plonker of the highest order.
ALL violence must be stopped.

The question is. Was Martin's reaction to the woman pulling him up for his outrageous obnoxious behaviour foreseeable? Of course it was.

Would she do the same thing again? I very much doubt it.

And I am not being critical of the woman. She had every right to pull him on, but it was not something I would encourage anyone to do.

And those saying that the police can't take action without a complaint from the woman are wrong. As you are now witnessing

I said they needed a report. I don't think I said from the woman but they were never going to do it from just the media. If I did say from the woman I was wrong. The AFL asked them to look into it.

[Sainternist]

What I wanna know is how he has got away with having - for so long - the rudest haircut in the history of Australian Rules Football.

[ripplug66]

Threats to a person's life...

kill you with a chopstick

laughable really - she should have stayed out of it. He' a tool and so's she.

She is a tool? Seriously how do you possibly come up with some of your statements? Some are amazing but not in a good way.

[#gosaintas]

I just find the faux outrage on here pretty funny. What was the stupid chick doing saying "I'm gonna tell on you" to a pissed meathead footballer probably high as a kite. She got what any normal person would expect in return. Aggro.

[Dis Believer]

What I wanna know is how he has got away with having - for so long - the rudest haircut in the history of Australian Rules Football.

This post wins the thread...........