More delistings

[bigcarl]

I hope no one picks Ray up and we rookie him. Been a very solid contributor over many years, a good professional soldier.

I mean how many of the kids we have jemmied into the list will be good enough or durable enough to play 200 solid games of AFL football, including good finals.

I'll give you a clue, only a select few.

He's not even 30 yet, can run all day, is very durable and has the wiry body type to play good football ... Possibly his best football ... well into his 30s.

And by all accounts he a ripping bloke.

[the dome]

Just heard Ray has been possibly moved on after 200 games. Some saying he might be rookied back to us so the Ray story may continue. I can understand Farren seeking a seniors' slot on an afl list. But if not to be and our recruiting 'planners' decide on rookieing him fine.

[ripplug66]

I hope no one picks Ray up and we rookie him. Been a very solid contributor over many years, a good professional soldier.

I mean how many of the kids we have jemmied into the list will be good enough or durable enough to play 200 solid games of AFL football, including good finals.

I'll give you a clue, only a select few.

He's not even 30 yet, can run all day, is very durable and has the wiry body type to play good football ... Possibly his best football ... well into his 30s.

And by all accounts he a ripping bloke.

Lets face it he cant play his best footy into his 30's. He struggled this year and he was 29. His time is up no matter what he has done previously. sadly his career with us must end.

[bigcarl]

Let's face it He struggled because he was recovering from the first long term injury of his career. Unlike Schneids and some other fragile-bodied types he's managed to get on the park most of the time.

I hope we rookie him and strongly suspect we will if no one picks him up.

[BigMart]

i thought he was good in 14, and has finished top ten in the b&f not long back... hes far from done.

this year, im pretty sure he suffered a major 10 week injury from the nab cup until R6?

some people thought Sam Fisher was done last year... he clear was not... same Schnieder and they were 33 &31 respectively

injury, and short memories effect peoples judgments sometimes

[bergholt]

injury, and short memories effect peoples judgments sometimes

Yeah, why would people judge the guy on his exposed form? Much rather remember him as he was a few years ago and hope that he can be just as good.

Look, I love the guy. I've met him a couple of times, he's a ripping bloke. But he hasn't got a position in AFL footy. He's not good enough at finding the footy to play full-time mid, not quick enough to play small back, not a good enough goalkicker to play forward. He's done about two good tagging jobs in his career (including one which almost won us a flag) so not that either.

Feel free to come up with a position for him but until someone does, I can't see why we'd keep him on.

[ripplug66]

i thought he was good in 14, and has finished top ten in the b&f not long back... hes far from done.

this year, im pretty sure he suffered a major 10 week injury from the nab cup until R6?

some people thought Sam Fisher was done last year... he clear was not... same Schnieder and they were 33 &31 respectively

injury, and short memories effect peoples judgments sometimes

Are you really using a 2 time B&F winner and a KPP to support keeping a HBF, Winger type? I don't care what age he is. I care about how he plays and if we have replacements for his position. The club delisted him so my guess is they think he is done. maybe they have short term memory issues or don't care about injury. People who say he is done didn't delist him.

[samuraisaint]

His last game - albeit against a good side - is evidence that he should retire from footy at the highest level, but I reckon he would be awesome at VFL/WAFL/SANFL level.
We can't hold on to Ray at this stage of the rebuild.
We have kept Roo, Joey, Chips, Dempster and Gilbert, that is enough experience to support the likes of Armo, Steven and Geary who should be leading the team now.
Remember Milne was a rookie at the beginning - I am against the idea of keeping veterans on the rookie list from a philosophical perspective anyway.

[BigMart]

Club delisted Adam Schnieder

He played a further 15 odd games and played an important role as a senior player

As for position

He's found a position for 205 games. Perhaps his hard running and ability has got him 12 seasons in the AFL??

[samuraisaint]

Then keep him on the list - or add him to the Veteran's List or whatever. Calling a player who has played 200 games and 12 seasons a rookie is kind of stretching the definition of a "rookie", don't you think?

[BigMart]

It's called the rookie list... It's so you can have player outside your primary list and not have to include them in your TPP

They can come in for injury if needed.

Ray may spend the entire year in the twos.... Or Armitage, Montagna and Steven go down.... Where are we left then??

[ripplug66]

It's called the rookie list... It's so you can have player outside your primary list and not have to include them in your TPP

They can come in for injury if needed.

Ray may spend the entire year in the twos.... Or Armitage, Montagna and Steven go down.... Where are we left then??

Without one of them and we use a younger player in their position. Anyway it matters little what we think. The club think his time is up and surely there is no point in making him a rookie. Schneider did his job well but in the end it didn't really matter that he played. Also the kids now have 10 to 20 more games in them so we don't need a 30 year old to help them at training. Surely that's why we have coaches.

[BigMart]

what is obvious, is that Farren is a far better player than a number of players on the list.

Just at our stage of the list build, and contract situation that has squeezed him.

[Bluthy]

what is obvious, is that Farren is a far better player than a number of players on the list.

Just at our stage of the list build, and contract situation that has squeezed him.

I'd prefer to keep trying out Saunders, Curren, the Minch, Wright, Murdoch, jesus even Tommy Lee rocking it as a back flanker, than Fazza just so we squeeze all the toothpaste out these young guys tubes (apologies for the somewhat lewd and disturbing metaphor) just so we have given them every opportunity and won't die wondering if we decide to delist them. We may have quite a few retirements next year so we need to keep rotating these older guys out to get the transition to the younger generation happening.

If Farren is rookied the temptation for Richo then is to want to get his experience and big body out there especially in the unlikely situation of us looking like we have a shot at finals. I'd prefer Richo didn't have the temptation of over ripe fruit in the larder at all if he finds the young raw fruit inedible and failing in a finals push. You saw he couldn't resist the fast rotting Schneider banana in the cupboard last year. Finals fever does strange things to coaches. Richo is already getting fruity talking finals whereas I think we need to keep working hard at ripening the young fruit and patiently build a delicious, rich fruit salad built of young fruit and letting it ferment. But lets not try juicing as that caused Essendon some issues. Right no more metaphors for me. Ever.

[degruch]

Finals? I'm getting the fruit tingles just thinking about it!

[borderbarry]

Are the delistings finished for this year? What do you think?

[desertsaint]

Happy if we rookie Ray. Pretty safe back up bet for us if we lose a couple of experienced players to injury.

[sunsaint]

F Ray vs Mitch Brown?
I think I would take a punt on Brown

[ripplug66]

F Ray vs Mitch Brown?
I think I would take a punt on Brown

How about neither. Both had at least 5 years in the system. Take a punt on a rookie. Maybe the next Milne or the next Conners. Either way it wont effect us in 3 years time.

[BigMart]

Ray actually had a dozen years in the system... And did what a very small percentage do... Play 200 games... Half of those years in top 8 or better teams

Which suggests he has a bit more ability than many are suggesting. It's his seniority and leadership that is more important IMO
Don't underestimate guidance... footy is much more than game day.

I will tell you one thing
Murdoch, Minchington, Saunders, Lee, Holmes, Shenton, Delaney, Curren will NOT get to 100 let alone 200

Savage, Hickey will get nowhere near 200

Jury out on
Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Wright, Membrey
And a few others IMO...

Ray is at least a proven performer that adds depth


Mitch Brown is a far better player than Tom Lee, Luke Delaney, Cam Shenton and a few others... He was head and shoulders better than Simpkin, Sipposs and White.
He was in the system for 6 years... Three ruined by injury ... In the other 3 he was excellent in the VFL and got some chances in in the seniors... He wasn't a frdp by Wells for nothing, he is talented
Let's not forget, the club he was at won two premierships and had Scarlett, Lonergon, Taylor, Hawkins, Podsiadly, Mackie, Rivers on the list at the time also.
On Pods
He didn't go to Geelong until 10 years after being a rookie at two clubs and spending 10 years in the VFL
He then was in the AFL for 6 seasons and played in premierships.
Can't be blinkered when discussing players I suppose
Because if we discussed drafted Pods in 2008 some on here would have said
Had his chance, too old, would've been drafted already etc...

[ripplug66]

Thanks for the history lesson. Don't know why though.

[saintspremiers]

Are the delistings finished for this year? What do you think?

I think so but hope not

[bergholt]

Ray actually had a dozen years in the system... And did what a very small percentage do... Play 200 games... Half of those years in top 8 or better teams

Which suggests he has a bit more ability than many are suggesting. It's his seniority and leadership that is more important IMO

We should sign Cowboy Neale then, he played more games and he's much more senior than Faz.

Ray was useful for a long time, he's not any more. No slight on him, just that his time should be over now.

[BigMart]

Not sure running players are too different at 29 compared to 26/27???

I think he has back up value... And as stated leadership value.


On the history lesson

Some people could learn a bit through history... One f those lessons is on drafting

Don't be blinkered... Age, size, pace, kicking, initial failure, man child and many other limitations have been overcome .... Success is underpinned by ability and determination.... And that's about it...

Question should still be asked of recruiters

How the f*** did Sam Mitchell get overlooked in 1 ND, one Rookie Draft and last until pick 36 in the next draft.
He dominated every comp he played in until drafted... Then dominated AFL... And is doing still at 33yo for those that think players can't play anymore past 29

[bergholt]

Not sure running players are too different at 29 compared to 26/27???

I think he has back up value... And as stated leadership value.


On the history lesson

Some people could learn a bit through history... One f those lessons is on drafting

Don't be blinkered... Age, size, pace, kicking, initial failure, man child and many other limitations have been overcome .... Success is underpinned by ability and determination.... And that's about it...

Question should still be asked of recruiters

How the f*** did Sam Mitchell get overlooked in 1 ND, one Rookie Draft and last until pick 36 in the next draft.
He dominated every comp he played in until drafted... Then dominated AFL... And is doing still at 33yo for those that think players can't play anymore past 29

History lesson: there's been one Brownlow Medallist in the last 20 years who was 29 or older.

History lesson: Robert Harvey was a freak but after he turned 30 his disposal average dropped from 28-30 touches a game down to 20-22.

History lesson: Gary Ablett Jr played 20+ games every year of his career. The year he turned 30 (2014) he played 15. The next year he played 6. Maybe you get injured more when you're older?

And these are the absolute champions of the game. Farren Ray is not a champion. He's more comparable to someone like Clinton Young, who got injured and lost form towards the end of his career at 28+.

We'll lose nothing from having Ray off the list next year.