Union told Jake Carlisle's manager not to tell Saints

[saintbrat]

he suggests that they had let St Kilda know of allegations But did not know of the Video. player initially denied anything----

" significant consequences" ASA gone,

[Playon]

Well isnt it amazing that ACA notified them the day before of the video. Seems like a lot of lies emerging, Covering arses seems like a full time job

[saintbrat]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/j ... b56f420ba5

[Playon]

Have to subscribe Bratty, can you do a cut and paste?

[saintbrat]

But it still seems a breach of trust for the manager, who had been in regular contact with the Saints' list manager Ameet Bains for weeks and often on an hourly basis to go quiet at such a crucial time. The allegations, after all, came from the Nine Network and not some unidentified troll.
And, of course, in Carlisle's second serious error, the player lied to McConville when the agent first contacted him. It was on that crucial Tuesday that the trade with Essendon was being finalised with the papers lodged at AFL headquarters on Tuesday night.
Still they had not been ratified early on Wednesday when McConville was worried enough to take his concerns to Ian Prendergast and Brett Murphy from the AFL Players Association.
Prendergast and Murphy are respected and diligent as well as popular individuals among the industry. Prendergast's achievement alongside the AFL's Mark Evans in negotiating the new significantly improved illicit drugs policy deserves more commendation than it has received.
But he and his colleague were wrong to keep the allegations from St Kilda. That decision has deeply offended the Saints and hurt the relationship with club chief Matt Finnis and his former players union colleagues.
That they advised McConville to say nothing to the Saints at such a crucial time has been regarded by other clubs as a breach of trust despite the AFLPA's insistence that the manager's priority had to remain his client. Sometimes when it feels wrong it is wrong.
And the timing was more than unfortunate. It was catastrophic for St Kilda. Finnis had arrived at AFL headquarters on the Wednesday believing he had a good news story to tell as the Carlisle trade was made official only to walk out to A Current Affair doorstop. All this before McConville or Prendergast had had the chance to contact him, having realised the vision was genuine and due to run publicly that night.
It is the widespread view of the AFL community that St Kilda should not have been kept in the dark, even for a day, regarding Carlisle. That the players' association overstepped the mark in their zeal to protect the footballer.
Prendergast on Friday described the confluence of events as a perfect storm. He insisted he slept soundly with his decision to stay silent until more information came forward. The AFLPA pointed to the fact that St Kilda has indicated it would have called off the deal had it known.
Whether or not this is true, it should have been the Saints' right. The multi-million-dollar investment from a cash-strapped club, not to mention the sacrifice it had elected to make in terms of young talent along with the accompanying damage to its only recently repairing reputation, made the suppression of information completely unreasonable. As it would have been for any club. They deserved to have all the information available.
Several clubs on Friday held the view that the league's integrity bosses should have questioned the AFLPA for its role in the saga, however that will not happen and would not be appropriate. But the union should analyse its handling of such cases. Clearly the Player Agents Accreditation Board will not penalise McConville given he was acting on that body's guidance.
Carlisle still faces a penalty from the competition but the punishment is expected to come from St Kilda with some behind-the-scenes negotiating with head office. He has indicated that he will accept a drug strike and could also be suspended from playing at the start of the 2016 season.
And with the removal of the marketing money and some other key clauses from his contract, Carlisle will finish up losing a six-figure sum, making him the most heavily penalised player in AFL history for having taken illicit drugs on one known occasion.
The AFLPA has lost the upper hand in the bitter bargaining over the contract revisions through its poor advice to McConville but tensions between club and union have risen further with the Saints playing hardball.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/j ... z3q2l8E9aM
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[saintbrat]

Have to subscribe Bratty, can you do a cut and paste?

not much there- they don't have the same contact as Caro ( see above)

THE extent of Jake Carlisle’s pay cut will be determined at a meeting with club chiefs next week.

Carlisle was bracing for a severe slashing of the marketing component of his four-year $600,000 per season contract.

But he could also face new performance clauses not included in his original agreement.

St Kilda is unlikely to suspend Carlisle and is hoping he will instead volunteer to accept an official drug strike as punishment for his Snapchat video calamity.

Collingwood president Eddie McGuire inflamed the debate around Carlisle on Friday by taking aim at the role played by the AFL Players’ Association.

The player union advised Carlisle’s manager Anthony McConville not to inform the Saints about what he knew of the Carlisle video in the hours before the trade with Essendon went through.

[Toy Saint]

Well we should have screwed them on it over the non-disclosure. I think we'd have had a pretty sound case as the deal would not have gone through had we known.

I mean how can you possibly bring someone in as one of the highest paid on the list after what has happened.

You can't but as we know the AFL is a law unto itself. The most appropriate course of action would be to annul the trade...

however that will not happen.

Therefore the AFL will make it worth our while with sweeteners like more funding for Moorabbin, continued good draws like we got for next year (a few more Friday nights thrown in), or a quiet word to clubs that they cant bid for Rice (would never be said of course and would be pretty easy to do as Rice is not a top 5 pick for example).

The AFL will continue to support the Saints as they have over the past couple of years.

But discount any thought of PP's or compo picks for Carlisle

The AFL is a law unto itself alright, I reckon they are actively working with Essendon to move away the drug cheats so that the inevitable WADA suspensions do not destroy the Bummers - their success is critical for the AFL to obtain maximum TV rights.

[Playon]

Thanks Bratty...
The AFL should step in and reverse the trade. Thats if were to believe there's some integrity to the game. We should be offered to keep the trade or make it null and void. If the trade is void Bombers can keep him min 12 months or opt for the draft
We get our 5 back and end of story
The AFLPA can fund their own union, no more hand outs, like every other union.
Now in the real world do I see that happening? Do I expect the right thing to happen?

[saintbrat]

Thanks Bratty...
The AFL should step in and reverse the trade. Thats if were to believe there's some integrity to the game. We should be offered to keep the trade or make it null and void. If the trade is void Bombers can keep him min 12 months or opt for the draft
We get our 5 back and end of story
The AFLPA can fund their own union, no more hand outs, like every other union.
Now in the real world do I see that happening? Do I expect the right thing to happen?

IF the saints can turn him around... and create ( which I expect they are working on) bonus' brownie points.But only time will tell-
all rumblings are that there isn't a way out of the contract- probably right as negating it would no doubt open up a can of worms for the future.

[loris]

I heard tell last weekend the Saints and the AFL were in serious discussion on what the options were. And by all accounts Saints weren't keen on having Carlilse. Saints wanting compensation picks for 1st round in next seasons draft & other concessions. Trouble is all the other Clubs would have had to agree, that was causing some serious issues. Notice at the time Western Bulldogs was going in on the negative about them pulling out of any Carlilse, implying that Saints were not that thorough ????? That's only my interpretation of Bullies going to the media. Other Clubs aren't prepared to give us suckers (STKFC) an even break!!!!!! Still lots of back room discussion happening me thinks. Good on Eddie Everywhere at least giving us some vociferous support. Not much noise from other Clubs is there??

Looks like we are stuck with the devious idiot. I'm hoping WADA comes down with some good suspension against him & other Essendon players. And I would love to see Tom Lee take over and play way above our expectations on the back line. Then if and when Jake the Snake gets a chance to pull on a Saints guernsey he'll have to earn his spot in the team and RESPECT & TRUST via Sandringham. Expensive I know for the poor Saints, but the way I would want it to play out ........... integrity before expediency!

[gringo]

We have a guy in who is an AFL plant. Finnis won't rock the boat and his old mates will get away with their devious crap. The new guy in the AFLPA head role is an embarrassment.

[bigred]

Pick 5 back. Everyone else gets bumped a spot thanks

[SaintPav]

Been working underground for most of this week (no phones allowed).

Has this really blown up?


Carlisle is a reckless halfwit for what he did but does anyone realistically think that both his manager and the AFLPA should have dobbed in the player? They have no incentive to do that.

Are we letting the club off lightly here for not doing background checks etc?

[The Fireman]

Go Jakey boy. He will do very well for us. all this negative crap will soon fade away..why? because too many on here have lost hope and tend to talk up the worst.

Go Jakey Boy.

[Playon]

Thanks Bratty...
The AFL should step in and reverse the trade. Thats if were to believe there's some integrity to the game. We should be offered to keep the trade or make it null and void. If the trade is void Bombers can keep him min 12 months or opt for the draft
We get our 5 back and end of story
The AFLPA can fund their own union, no more hand outs, like every other union.
Now in the real world do I see that happening? Do I expect the right thing to happen?

IF the saints can turn him around... and create ( which I expect they are working on) bonus' brownie points.But only time will tell-
all rumblings are that there isn't a way out of the contract- probably right as negating it would no doubt open up a can of worms for the future.

Well if they can turn him around they should share how they did it with the rest of Australia, we have a lot of drug addicts, it'd be great to see them all give up.
Does anyone believe it was his first time? To film it suggests he was proud of his actions.

I'd be more than happy tp open that can of worms, full disclosure, or pay the price, Why should the clubs and members suffer? If we were now to sack Carlisle it costs us big time, and any other club protesting should think what would happen if it happened to them. Stop protecting the drug addicts they do it by choice.

[bigcarl]

Well we should have screwed them on it over the non-disclosure. I think we'd have had a pretty sound case as the deal would not have gone through had we known.

I mean how can you possibly bring someone in as one of the highest paid on the list after what has happened.

You can't but as we know the AFL is a law unto itself. The most appropriate course of action would be to annul the trade...

however that will not happen.

Therefore the AFL will make it worth our while with sweeteners like more funding for Moorabbin, continued good draws like we got for next year (a few more Friday nights thrown in), or a quiet word to clubs that they cant bid for Rice (would never be said of course and would be pretty easy to do as Rice is not a top 5 pick for example).

The AFL will continue to support the Saints as they have over the past couple of years.


But discount any thought of PP's or compo picks for Carlisle

All true Bunk, but I was talking about knocking down what we will paying him rather than getting the trade annulled or anything like that.

I think he'll be a good player for us, but we shouldn't pay him more than we have to given the circumstances

[loris]

Go Jakey boy. He will do very well for us. all this negative crap will soon fade away..why? because too many on here have lost hope and tend to talk up the worst.

Go Jakey Boy.

No Firey I disagree with you. And you are one of my favourite posters over the years. So I have to get this off my chest........ sorry it's not a Dolly Parton well endowed bosom!

I have been supporting the Saints since I can first recall the games I went to in about 1952 or 53. However I was told I went in 1950 many a time ........ I was such a tiny tot I must have been more interested in what was on the ground where we stood behind the Junction end goals such as , beer cans for us kids to stand on to see the game, rolled up footy records or daily paper tied up with string for us to kids to kick as only rich kids had a real footy to kick around.

One things we Saints supporters always had was HOPE, we never lost HOPE as you say we are doing now if we don't like Jake Carlilse's method of dudding the Saints. You accuse us of tending to 'talk up the worst'. Hey historically other Clubs laughed at us for years when we supporters after our many times experiencing 'wooden spoons' or defeats in ou few Grand Final appearances we always had our 'War Cry'......... 'There Is Always Next Year'........... Rusted on Sainters have always had HOPE, and IMHO ignore talking up the worst when maybe we should have faced reality, but no we Sainters have hope over the years and have not talked up the worst IMHO

Sure there might be the usual wingers on this site who have a negative Nellie outlook on everything the Saints do, but I would argue they are definitely in the minority. Of recent years.......They grizzled about Tim Watson, the admin taking on Malcolm Blight. Jesus when Grant Thomas & Rod Buttress began to lift our Club up the ladder, they were nervous and became thrilled when that era crumbled. Begrudgingly such supporters went quiet when Lyin nearly got us to the Holy Grail, but then came out with 'I told you so', when we nearly reached the HOPE we all wanted. Yes they are a vociferous lot, and most people know there is a silent majority out there, who will let these garrulous supporters rant on. Supporters who still have HOPE and don't always talk up the WORST.

This issue with Jake Carlilse IMHO is not about giving up HOPE and talking up the WORST . It's about many Saint supporters being HURT over an integrity issue. Being hurt by a player, who for whatever reason showed no loyalty to his Club which admittedly through its own fault is in crisis and Carlilse denigrated it, then showed he would tell a LIE to ensure he could get the best monetary deal out of a new Club he knew wanted a player of his experience. The more that comes out is - our Club has been DUDDED and supporters are angry and hurt, that is a natural response.

If this deceitful player can eventually earn the respect of the STKFC Club and its loyal supporters remains to be seen.

EARN RESPECT is paramount for this cashed up football bogan............. IMHO many Saint supporters won't be saying 'Go Jakey Boy' too readily. The supplements scandal at Essendon over the past 3 years has shown how the AFL can be plunged into depths of concern because of the attitude of 'what ever it takes'. 'Go Jakey Boy', smacks of we Saints supporters will also turn a blind eye and accept 'whatever it takes' because Carlilse might give us an edge on the field. I think our supporters have more moral fibre than that.

Hey he hasn't even played consistent good football for Essendon over the past 2 seasons. Why would one think he could walk straight into the St Kilda team and be a star? He needs to earn a spot in the team & and more importantly earn RESPECT within the whole St Kilda community............ then Saints supporters might say 'Go Jakey Boy'. IMHO our Club stands for Ingegrity before Expediency!

My rant is over Firey!!!

[skeptic]

Been working underground for most of this week (no phones allowed).

Has this really blown up?


Carlisle is a reckless halfwit for what he did but does anyone realistically think that both his manager and the AFLPA should have dobbed in the player? They have no incentive to do that.

Are we letting the club off lightly here for not doing background checks etc?

Good post

If I was JC I pbly would ensure the deal was signed before I came completely clean. I'm not saying it's right but clearly the guy wanted out and was happy with his deal. Why jeopardise that?

[The Fireman]

loved the rant Loris..disappointed about the Dolly comparison


His tenure at Ess would not have been a healthy environment for any player which may have affected his consistency and other aspects of his character ..let's give him a chance to see if he can turn it around at a drug free club.
If he fails then so be it. "Let's Hope" he doesn't

in the meantime
Go Saints.

[Devilhead]

His tenure at Ess would not have been a healthy environment for any player which may have affected his consistency and other aspects of his character ..let's give him a chance to see if he can turn it around at a drug free club.
If he fails then so be it. "Let's Hope" he doesn't

He never been a consistent player in his junior or senior career so i can't see how being at Essendon affected his consistency

As stated previously there is no doubt that he has talent but their are some major flaws in his software

We are likely to need more patches than we think

[bergholt]

I have been supporting the Saints since I can first recall the games I went to in about 1952 or 53. However I was told I went in 1950 many a time ........ I was such a tiny tot I must have been more interested in what was on the ground where we stood behind the Junction end goals such as , beer cans for us kids to stand on to see the game, rolled up footy records or daily paper tied up with string for us to kids to kick as only rich kids had a real footy to kick around.

One things we Saints supporters always had was HOPE, we never lost HOPE as you say we are doing now if we don't like Jake Carlilse's method of dudding the Saints. You accuse us of tending to 'talk up the worst'. Hey historically other Clubs laughed at us for years when we supporters after our many times experiencing 'wooden spoons' or defeats in ou few Grand Final appearances we always had our 'War Cry'......... 'There Is Always Next Year'........... Rusted on Sainters have always had HOPE, and IMHO ignore talking up the worst when maybe we should have faced reality, but no we Sainters have hope over the years and have not talked up the worst IMHO

Maybe that's true coming from your perspective, having actually seen a flag.

For those of us who started following the club in the 80s and are now 30+ years in without a flag, and with the feeling that we're as far away from it as ever, it's a bit harder to always look on the bright side of life.

[The Fireman]

His tenure at Ess would not have been a healthy environment for any player which may have affected his consistency and other aspects of his character ..let's give him a chance to see if he can turn it around at a drug free club.
If he fails then so be it. "Let's Hope" he doesn't

He never been a consistent player in his junior or senior career so i can't see how being at Essendon affected his consistency

As stated previously there is no doubt that he has talent but their are some major flaws in his software

We are likely to need more patches than we think

he will now have a decent coach...this may help in that area

[saynta]

he suggests that they had let St Kilda know of allegations But did not know of the Video. player initially denied anything----

" significant consequences" ASA gone,

My thoughts. That guy is a lying piece of s***. Devious too.

[saynta]

he suggests that they had let St Kilda know of allegations But did not know of the Video. player initially denied anything----

" significant consequences" ASA gone,

Only after the deal had been done..

[markp]

I am seeing some positives in this tragedy.
Fact 1- Carlisle as a footballer is a valuable commodity. We know that. 198 cm Key position player with talent heading into their prime don't fall off trees.
We know Worsfold tried to change his mind the minute he signed at the bombers and asked him to stay. That's with all the things published regarding Carlisle and what he had said on the ground about the club ie " Get me out of here", " This club is f#cked" etc.
We also know the Hawks wanted him.

Fact 2- We will save money on his contract.

Fact 3- he has navigated his way through approximately 6 years in the AFL system without much problem. 85 games and you have not heard much about him being off the rails. I doubt this will change moving forward.

Assumption - He had a massive contract to protect and he is walking into the Saints with the tail between his legs with no credits left.
Pre video he may have swaggered in as a star recruit but he has no such luxury now. Eyes will be on him and he will be closely monitored.
Whereas before he may have struck some friendships with some of the younger players and led them astray I don't see that happening now.

We know he is a drug user and he won't be given much rope.

All in all once the football starts and Carlisle settles down he will be fine.
It's well documented they say in AFL circles someone else in our club has had issues with sporadic drug use so our culture at the moment can pull him into line.

Great post.

I hope he makes amends and repays us in spades.

I hope we look back and are glad we weren't informed because we would'nt have taken him.

I hope we screw him and his manager with the new contract.

I hope the afl give us some major concessions and brownie points for taking this hit without going feral.

I hope.