Carlisle "scandal"

[gringo]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

i am in my early 40s now and when I was young I played in bands. I saw that many people who died or are still trying to piece together lives from heroin. Some smoked so much weed they lost a decade. I saw guys do speed and coke and they were less addictive but jesus when the get hold they %#@% people up. You can say young people just are more down with the drugs and it just a trivial thing like having a cup of tea for an old person but it can f*** people up. I have a 12 year old daughter who started high school and managing this stuff means a shitty time for parents and isn't a great thing for sponsorship and membership.

[skeptic]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

i am in my early 40s now and when I was young I played in bands. I saw that many people who died or are still trying to piece together lives from heroin. Some smoked so much weed they lost a decade. I saw guys do speed and coke and they were less addictive but jesus when the get hold they %#@% people up. You can say young people just are more down with the drugs and it just a trivial thing like having a cup of tea for an old person but it can f*** people up. I have a 12 year old daughter who started high school and managing this stuff means a shitty time for parents and isn't a great thing for sponsorship and membership.

Hi Gringo,

I don't want to devalue your opinion or anything like that because you're 100% correct

What I'm trying to get at here, and maybe not clearly enough is draw attention to the disproportion that has crept into the argument here

JC was caught on camera doing coke and there is a movement growing to sack him. I don't like it all but on the grandscale of recklessness, stupidity, danger etc it's not the worse thing that's going on out there in the AFL.

There are players on lists right now that are regularly using illicit substances and getting off scott free because they disclose to the AFL
There are drink drivers
There are players that damaged property
Some accused of sexually assaulting women
Some of being violent

This is happening right now but the hysteria is at JC because he did coke on camera at his house, or hotel room or whatever

This hysteria is utterly absud

[samoht]

Cousins was given the benefit of the doubt, too. I feel sorry for his family.
We don't need Carlisle in our club - we're better than that. I just hope we can void the contract - and we're exploring that possibility at least.

[satchmo]

Cousins was given the benefit of the doubt, too. I feel sorry for his family.
We don't need Carlisle's ilk in our club - we're better than that.

A good club would turn this bloke around and revive his career. I think we can do it

[samoht]

Cousins was given the benefit of the doubt, too. I feel sorry for his family.
We don't need Carlisle's ilk in our club - we're better than that.

A good club would turn this bloke around and revive his career. I think we can do it

And if we can't we've blown our pick 5.
Why should we take that risk?

[Johnny Member]

Is it feasible, that Carlisle's drug habits (assuming it is in fact a habit) escalated due to the pressures of Essebdon's failed PED program and the ensuing saga?
Is it feasible that this is what was being described when he kept saying he needed a fresh start, but never actually said why specifically?

Is it feasible that his drop in form corresponds?

Is it feasible to suggest that this coming out is a blessing in terms of him getting his together for us?

[samoht]

We're not a reformatory/rehab centre - and we shouldn't be risking pick 5 - if we can avoid it!

[satchmo]

We're not a reformatory/rehab centre - and we shouldn't be risking pick 5 - if we can avoid it!

Pick 5 has gone. It's not coming back.

[markp]

Attempt to polish it any way you like.

Drugs are rife, we'll turn him around, it's not so bad, he knows he owes us now.... etc.

We've been utterly screwed over, by his manger at very least.

We would not have taken him if we'd found out just a day or so earlier, no way.

Any warm and fuzzy feeling or optimism the club was building leading up to and over trade period has been well and truly dumped on.

There will be no feel good presser when he is 'welcomed' to the club.

We spent pick 5 on a sick pup, who is already on his final warning.

It's a nightmare.

I hope he comes good just as much as anyone, but we all know these things can go one of two ways... and in the meantime it's a massive public and private deflating downer for the club.

[Wrote for Luck]

On a brighter note; the recruiting team will now be working ultra hard on getting us the best possible player at pick 14. You would think they would anyway but seems more now at stake.

[mullet]

Is it feasible, that Carlisle's drug habits (assuming it is in fact a habit) escalated due to the pressures of Essebdon's failed PED program and the ensuing saga?
Is it feasible that this is what was being described when he kept saying he needed a fresh start, but never actually said why specifically?

Is it feasible that his drop in form corresponds?

Is it feasible to suggest that this coming out is a blessing in terms of him getting his together for us?

Hey Johnny

Please lets not give these young guys any more excuses to get on the gear.

Seriously, they are constantly told how they are elite athletes, that they work their guts out (for 10 months of the year), that they deserve to let their hair down,
and the people in charge of the whole thing give them 3 chances before they have to get their lives in order. They have found ways around suspensions by 'self reporting'.
They are paid enormous amounts of money, and they choose to stick it up their noses.
They are portrayed as "heros", they aren't they are just young guys who are pretty good at a certain sport.
It is really time that everyone stopped giving them excuses.
The world champion womans cricket team would love 1% of what these guys get and I'm sure they wouldn't be sticking it up their noses.

Yep the Essendon footballers have been used as science experiments, but they didn't mind when they were winning, they all closed ranks and look where that got them. they all lied and of course now the cracks appear.

Jake Carlisle has a big job ahead of him. unfortunately he isn't an isolated case and the silence from the AFL over this is deafening. No more excuses from my point of view.

[Con Gorozidis]

I still think we could knock 50k a year off his contract. We have the right to.

[SemperFidelis]

I still think we could knock 50k a year off his contract. We have the right to.

Yep. And I'm pretty sure we can insist he dumps his manager. He shouldn't see brass razoo out of his "deal". We should never be required to negotiate with him again.

[Johnny Member]

Is it feasible, that Carlisle's drug habits (assuming it is in fact a habit) escalated due to the pressures of Essebdon's failed PED program and the ensuing saga?
Is it feasible that this is what was being described when he kept saying he needed a fresh start, but never actually said why specifically?

Is it feasible that his drop in form corresponds?

Is it feasible to suggest that this coming out is a blessing in terms of him getting his together for us?

Hey Johnny

Please lets not give these young guys any more excuses to get on the gear.

Seriously, they are constantly told how they are elite athletes, that they work their guts out (for 10 months of the year), that they deserve to let their hair down,
and the people in charge of the whole thing give them 3 chances before they have to get their lives in order. They have found ways around suspensions by 'self reporting'.
They are paid enormous amounts of money, and they choose to stick it up their noses.
They are portrayed as "heros", they aren't they are just young guys who are pretty good at a certain sport.
It is really time that everyone stopped giving them excuses.
The world champion womans cricket team would love 1% of what these guys get and I'm sure they wouldn't be sticking it up their noses.

Yep the Essendon footballers have been used as science experiments, but they didn't mind when they were winning, they all closed ranks and look where that got them. they all lied and of course now the cracks appear.

Jake Carlisle has a big job ahead of him. unfortunately he isn't an isolated case and the silence from the AFL over this is deafening. No more excuses from my point of view.

Fair comments.

Although I'd be shocked if illicit drug use wasn't prevalent in women's cricket also.

I've never been into party drugs, but the amount of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances that are is staggering. I'm without doubt, the odd one out.

It is so normal to young people these days. It's barely even hidden.

When I go to a party, the casual drug use is what I liken to simply having a few beers.


But anyway, you're right. It's illegal and unhealthy and these guys know better. But in reality, it's obvious they don't care. I genuinely believe they simply don't take what us old blokes say seriously when we talk about the evils of drugs.


My opinion, is that the frst strike is the one the AFL should go really hard on. That should be made public and a massive fuss made about it. There needs to be a deterrent to young blokes and chicks to try it in the first place.

Reality is here, that addiction is the problem. Not trying coke once or twice for fun - but addiction. And getting addicted can't happen if you don't try it.

So I don't know why the AFL do the exact opposite. It's utterly baffling why they hide the casual first time user - but think it's a good idea to make it public when someone is an addict??
Makes absolutely no sense to me.

They should be saying openly, that if you try drugs - you're f***ed. We'll publicly hang you and makea massive deal about it. Do you really want to risk it? But, if you're an addict and need help, then we'll keep that quiet and help you through it as best we can.

It is kind of funny that we (me included) aren't outraged by casual drug use, yet get all outraged when we see people on the streets committing crimes due to their drug addiction. But we don't acknowledge that the only way someone gets a drug addiction, is by starting with casual drug use.

[ripplug66]

Fair comments.

Although I'd be shocked if illicit drug use wasn't prevalent in women's cricket also.

I've never been into party drugs, but the amount of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances that are is staggering. I'm without doubt, the odd one out.

It is so normal to young people these days. It's barely even hidden.

When I go to a party, the casual drug use is what I liken to simply having a few beers.


But anyway, you're right. It's illegal and unhealthy and these guys know better. But in reality, it's obvious they don't care. I genuinely believe they simply don't take what us old blokes say seriously when we talk about the evils of drugs.


My opinion, is that the frst strike is the one the AFL should go really hard on. That should be made public and a massive fuss made about it. There needs to be a deterrent to young blokes and chicks to try it in the first place.

Reality is here, that addiction is the problem. Not trying coke once or twice for fun - but addiction. And getting addicted can't happen if you don't try it.

So I don't know why the AFL do the exact opposite. It's utterly baffling why they hide the casual first time user - but think it's a good idea to make it public when someone is an addict??
Makes absolutely no sense to me.

They should be saying openly, that if you try drugs - you're f***ed. We'll publicly hang you and makea massive deal about it. Do you really want to risk it? But, if you're an addict and need help, then we'll keep that quiet and help you through it as best we can.

It is kind of funny that we (me included) aren't outraged by casual drug use, yet get all outraged when we see people on the streets committing crimes due to their drug addiction. But we don't acknowledge that the only way someone gets a drug addiction, is by starting with casual drug use.

Whilst I sort of agree the problem is the players have to agree to this afterall not many sports have a policy at all on illicit drugs. Usain Bolt wont even be tested for it unless he is running on the day and he is one of the best athletes in the world. If the policy is to strict the players may just say we wont have this policy anymore.

How would you get the players to agree to one strike and your outed?

[mullet]

Couldn't agree more Johnny.

Drugs are a big problem. Look what it did to the walsh family. And that is just the one we heard about.

I always wonder how I would handle it if it was my own child. I am lucky , she is a very driven girl, who to the best of my knowledge has
never touched drugs. She tells me the stories , she comes home from parties if things get willing drug wise, and shakes her head at the footballers.

But if something happened and she went down that road, I would move heaven and earth to get her on track again.

I have never been a dabbler in drugs either. And I am not saying that in a way to try and make myself some sort of martyr, I am saying it to explain why
I don't understand the easy acceptance of drug use either.

Just wonder where it will all end up.

[Johnny Member]

Fair comments.

Although I'd be shocked if illicit drug use wasn't prevalent in women's cricket also.

I've never been into party drugs, but the amount of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances that are is staggering. I'm without doubt, the odd one out.

It is so normal to young people these days. It's barely even hidden.

When I go to a party, the casual drug use is what I liken to simply having a few beers.


But anyway, you're right. It's illegal and unhealthy and these guys know better. But in reality, it's obvious they don't care. I genuinely believe they simply don't take what us old blokes say seriously when we talk about the evils of drugs.


My opinion, is that the frst strike is the one the AFL should go really hard on. That should be made public and a massive fuss made about it. There needs to be a deterrent to young blokes and chicks to try it in the first place.

Reality is here, that addiction is the problem. Not trying coke once or twice for fun - but addiction. And getting addicted can't happen if you don't try it.

So I don't know why the AFL do the exact opposite. It's utterly baffling why they hide the casual first time user - but think it's a good idea to make it public when someone is an addict??
Makes absolutely no sense to me.

They should be saying openly, that if you try drugs - you're f***ed. We'll publicly hang you and makea massive deal about it. Do you really want to risk it? But, if you're an addict and need help, then we'll keep that quiet and help you through it as best we can.

It is kind of funny that we (me included) aren't outraged by casual drug use, yet get all outraged when we see people on the streets committing crimes due to their drug addiction. But we don't acknowledge that the only way someone gets a drug addiction, is by starting with casual drug use.

Whilst I sort of agree the problem is the players have to agree to this afterall not many sports have a policy at all on illicit drugs. Usain Bolt wont even be tested for it unless he is running on the day and he is one of the best athletes in the world. If the policy is to strict the players may just say we wont have this policy anymore.

How would you get the players to agree to one strike and your outed?

Since when does breaking the law provide you with a free pass for anonymity?

Hodge wasn't protected.

Why should someone breaking the law by taking drugs be protected?

[Teflon]

Attempt to polish it any way you like.

Drugs are rife, we'll turn him around, it's not so bad, he knows he owes us now.... etc.

We've been utterly screwed over, by his manger at very least.

We would not have taken him if we'd found out just a day or so earlier, no way.

Any warm and fuzzy feeling or optimism the club was building leading up to and over trade period has been well and truly dumped on.

There will be no feel good presser when he is 'welcomed' to the club.

We spent pick 5 on a sick pup, who is already on his final warning.

It's a nightmare.

I hope he comes good just as much as anyone, but we all know these things can go one of two ways... and in the meantime it's a massive public and private deflating downer for the club.

Yep
Today's paper opens up with "only at St Kilda"
It's already out fault thanks Jake

[ripplug66]

Since when does breaking the law provide you with a free pass for anonymity?

Hodge wasn't protected.

Why should someone breaking the law by taking drugs be protected?

Well you aren't breaking the law are you? I'm pretty sure there is no law about using drugs or if there is there would be a million people arrested every day. And Hodge wasn't protected because he was caught. If he did this every night but wasn't caught he would be protected. Anyway that isn't my point. If the players say no to ths testing then they will all be protected even if they are using every single day. We need the testing but we need the players to agree.

[SainterK]

Attempt to polish it any way you like.

Drugs are rife, we'll turn him around, it's not so bad, he knows he owes us now.... etc.

We've been utterly screwed over, by his manger at very least.

We would not have taken him if we'd found out just a day or so earlier, no way.

Any warm and fuzzy feeling or optimism the club was building leading up to and over trade period has been well and truly dumped on.

There will be no feel good presser when he is 'welcomed' to the club.

We spent pick 5 on a sick pup, who is already on his final warning.

It's a nightmare.

I hope he comes good just as much as anyone, but we all know these things can go one of two ways... and in the meantime it's a massive public and private deflating downer for the club.

Yep
Today's paper opens up with "only at St Kilda"
It's already out fault thanks Jake

Agree guys, disaster.

I just get frustrated when even I had heard rumblings of his fev like ways.

Just don't go the whole wide eyed "we did our due diligence" stance, they clearly went for a naughty boy in the hopes of reforming him, it's backfired big time.

[Johnny Member]

Yep
Today's paper opens up with "only at St Kilda"
It's already out fault thanks Jake

I haven't seen, nor heard, any reaction to suggest this is the Saints' fault to be honest.

[SainterK]

Yep
Today's paper opens up with "only at St Kilda"
It's already out fault thanks Jake

I haven't seen, nor heard, any reaction to suggest this is the Saints' fault to be honest.

"Saints shame" and a pic of jake in a saints jumper on the afl website...

[Johnny Member]

Yep
Today's paper opens up with "only at St Kilda"
It's already out fault thanks Jake

I haven't seen, nor heard, any reaction to suggest this is the Saints' fault to be honest.

"Saints shame" and a pic of jake in a saints jumper on the afl website...

Hahah! Classic!

[Johnny Member]

I just had a look and couldn't see that?

All I can see is stuff suggesting that he's in deep s*** when he faces his new teammates.

[markp]

Well of course no one is suggesting it's our 'fault', how could they?

But we did choose to sign a problem, and he is now our problem, and it did bite us on the bum rather quickly, and the joke (jake?) is on us.

Massive fail.

Epic.