Carlisle "scandal"

[darylcowie]

Caveat emptor bombre!

We should have learnt from the Lovett fiasco.

No doubt they knew of his proclivities prior to trading Carlisle (not to mention his manager).

He has "cut" a four-year deal with us, but he will have to work very hard to gain the respect of Saints fans now, but even harder to gain the respect of the football department et al.

He's on his first and last chance with us now, so let's hope he makes the most of it.

[darylcowie]

I heard an interesting point from KB on his program this morning.

He said that until Carlisle begins training with us he is not a Saints player, but since he has been traded to us, he is no longer a Bombers player either, despite ingesting illicit substances while he was still on their list!

So technically Carlisle is the AFL's player for the next 5 weeks and it will be interesting to see how they handle this.

[samoht]

Why are we happy to take on damaged goods, now ... after full knowledge of the facts - if there's a way out?
Last chance means that if he does it again, we've basically thrown away pick 5 - why are we happy to continue with him?

It's too risky - if we can get out, WE SHOULD! Can you rely on this guy???

But ..Can we get out of this?

He's definitely misrepresented himself - and shown his good or "acceptable" side to us (and tried to hide - or not disclose - his bad side from us).
So if we can rescind the contract, we should.

Alternatively, if we can get him through the PSD, without giving away any picks or involving pick 5 - if we still want him that badly that is - that's the way we should do it now. We owe him and Essendank nothing!

[satchmo]

Wouldn't think so.

[lefty]

Its like KB said, you drink and drive you're fired, if you take drugs, its "oh you'd be surprised how many do it" like its normal.... until s*** goes wrong and that wanker causes a head on crash killing two innocent people travelling in the other direction.

Luke Hodge, Matt Janesch, Jeff Garlett, Alan Murray, Dawson Simpson, Jay Shulz and Brad Ottens were all sacked for drink driving?

lol - what effing hypocrites

Poor old Hodgey being sacked and not winning the third premiership.....oh wait

What about Brian Lake. Was shattered to be sacked before he won a flag at Hawthorn.

Jesus

In defence of KB he never said that at all. Chinese whispers again.

My point stands, that you get in trouble more from drinking during the week before a game, compared to taking illicit substances.

When someone has a drug issue, they are classified as having "an addiction" and they need to get help.
When someone drinks and gets caught, they get in more s*** than doing something illegal.

That was KB's point and I agree entirely.

If my workplace caught me taking drugs, I would of been fired immediately.
If I sent a dick pick in an email to a college, I would of been fired immediately.
If I rock up to work late for a few days after a warning, I would be fired immediately.
If I watched porn at work, I would be fired immediately.
If I touch someone on the arm or back, that could be classified as sexual assault and be fired immediately.
If I take drugs, its a slap on the wrist and I need help with my "addiction".

Hodge got a $5000 fine from the Hawks, what has Carlisle got?

Its embarrassing for the club, the supporters, heck I've already got bulls*** messages from Essendon supporters canning me on FB and SMS lolling about it.

And we're paying this f'wit megabucks who doesn't deserve it.

I surely hope he steps back in-line and regains the trust from everyone, he must not bring this club down to his pathetic level. I understand he's stuffed up, but one can only judge his past and his actions, now its entirely up to him how he wants to write his future and if he wants to redeem himself.

Anyway, the s***'s done now, I for one hope he starts with by signing himself up to a drug addiction clinic, and starts to realise how lucky he actual is to play for this club.

[Saints43]

Why are we happy to take on damaged goods, now ... after full knowledge of the facts - if there's a way out?
Last chance means that if he does it again, we've basically thrown away pick 5 - why are we happy to continue with him?

It's too risky - if we can get out, WE SHOULD! Can you rely on this guy???

But ..Can we get out of this?

He's definitely misrepresented himself - and shown his good or "acceptable" side to us (and tried to hide - or not disclose - his bad side from us).
So if we can rescind the contract, we should.

I don't think we want out of the contract. We want a centre half back. And they obviously think he's a pretty good one.

[prwilkinson]

The acid will be on him to train the absolute house down and prove himself on and off the field. It'll be a very interesting meeting when he first sits down with Richo, Finnis, Rooey and co. I wonder what Nick will have to say.

[saynta]

Its like KB said, you drink and drive you're fired, if you take drugs, its "oh you'd be surprised how many do it" like its normal.... until s*** goes wrong and that wanker causes a head on crash killing two innocent people travelling in the other direction.

Luke Hodge, Matt Janesch, Jeff Garlett, Alan Murray, Dawson Simpson, Jay Shulz and Brad Ottens were all sacked for drink driving?

lol - what effing hypocrites

Poor old Hodgey being sacked and not winning the third premiership.....oh wait

What about Brian Lake. Was shattered to be sacked before he won a flag at Hawthorn.

Jesus

In defence of KB he never said that at all. Chinese whispers again.

My point stands, that you get in trouble more from drinking during the week before a game, compared to taking illicit substances.

When someone has a drug issue, they are classified as having "an addiction" and they need to get help.
When someone drinks and gets caught, they get in more s*** than doing something illegal.

I see your point, but you are joking with the last statement above aren't you.

Drinking then driving over the limit is doing something illegal.

[saynta]

Why are we happy to take on damaged goods, now ... after full knowledge of the facts - if there's a way out?
Last chance means that if he does it again, we've basically thrown away pick 5 - why are we happy to continue with him?

It's too risky - if we can get out, WE SHOULD! Can you rely on this guy???

But ..Can we get out of this?

He's definitely misrepresented himself - and shown his good or "acceptable" side to us (and tried to hide - or not disclose - his bad side from us).
So if we can rescind the contract, we should.

I don't think we want out of the contract. We want a centre half back. And they obviously think he's a pretty good one.

Finnis has already gone on record stating that the saints are hoping to turn Jake into a better footballer and a better person.

[saintbrat]

One former Essendon teammate yesterday described Carlisle as “a simple soul” who requires direction outside of footbal

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/j ... 7578149094

[jamesmc]

One former Essendon teammate yesterday described Carlisle as “a simple soul” who requires direction outside of footbal

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/j ... 7578149094

I think he said simpleton

[ctqs]

Just an observation ... Compare the way we, as a group of supporters, have dealt with the Carlisle story compared with the way the fans at Drug Cheats handled that disgraceful situation. By and large there has been condemnation with varying degrees of discipline called for, whereas they continued to stand by Hird to the point where not only did they have their heads up their backsides, they thought the view was spectacular.

[skeptic]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

[The Fireman]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

There is no way you can colour this anyway but "loose cannon and potential problem" The guy has just left a club almost decimated by a drug scandal....so what does he do ? After getting a new lease on life with a pay rise he takes drugs and then advertises it...I'm sorry but I just can't get my head around that. The damage this causes is far worse than some of the things you mentioned in respect to not only our club but the young supporters who look upto these guys.

[Bluthy]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

[saynta]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

Fairly patronizing there about the older generation.

[HitTheBoundary]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

Fairly patronizing there about the older generation.

You should write him a letter of protest.

[skeptic]

I posted this on the sack JC but it seems relevant here too

Look me personally, I'm the most anti-drug person I know... Never smoked so much as a joint, and as someone that works in a profession where we have to try and manage the behaviour of many many heavy ice users and are often threatened to take responsibility for said users actions... Lets just say it's made me very bitter with regards to illicit substance use and users.

That said, i really don't get the hysteria here.

Before we sack Jake for his behaviour surely any player that
- that has gotten into a fight and struck someone
- ever stolen anything
- ever been involved in a serious traffic infringement
- drunk driven
- ever been evicted from an establishment secondary to drunken behaviour
- ever verbally abused someone

Should be sacked too

All of those things negatively impact on people worse then a player using an illicit substance in privacy without hurting anyone

I agree with the drug paranoia Skeptic. It's a generational thing that older supporters will never really understand - but akin to how rock-n-roll seemed the most evil thing ever invented to the older generation.

My issue is that there are multiple reports that Jake knew the video was out there before the trade was done and did not tell St Kilda. That is a lie by admission. Wilson says his manager knew 5 days out from the trade. You don't think that is a betrayal of trust right off the bat with his new club? Where is his integrity in forewarning us? No doubt his manager advised him not to say anything but he has to take full responsibility for lying to the club by omission.

Its not a showstopper and I don't think he should be sacked - and won't be anyway because he's too valuable. But how can be totally trusted now when they ask him about drugs or anything else? To me it reveals a deep immaturity. He needs to put in a few years of great footy keeping his nose squeaky clean.

100% agree with you Bluthy

I'm just getting a tired of the hysteria and the imbalance around this

If i had a choice between someone who drunk drove deliberately choosing to place other people's lives at risk ala Hodge
A player that throws a punch in a fight

Or what Jake Carlisle did... The 2 above are way worse

[samoht]

Cokeheads probably wouldn't think twice about getting behind the wheel after a snort.
Let's not forget that those who take cocaine can also drink and get drunk - imagine the combined effects of both alcohol and cocaine in the bloodstream.

"Effects on Driving

Drivers using cocaine may feel that they are more alert and can be better drivers than they would have been without cocaine use. But accident records refute this idea. An analysis of accidents in which the driver used cocaine proved that use of the drug resulted in speeding, loss of control of the vehicle, inattentive driving, and the driver turning in front of other cars. When the driver crashes as they come down off the cocaine high, they can get tired, sleepy and inattentive. In a study of 253 drivers killed in car accidents in Michigan, ten percent tested positive for cocaine. Similar results were found in Memphis, Tennessee in 1993, when 13 percent of drivers stopped for reckless driving were found to have used cocaine. One study in Barcelona showed that the mix of alcohol with cocaine may suppress one’s ability to perceive drunkenness, which may lead someone to drive when they are not capable of driving safely."

I hope St kilda is exploring/inquiring about the possibility of rescinding Jake's contract - it would be the right and responsible thing to do by the club, imho. We should be looking for any way out now. Carlisle is not worth it - or worthy.

[fugazi]

Coke turns decent people into total w#nkers....sounds like Jake had a head start

[Sainternist]

Out of the clubs, it'd have to bloody well happen to us, wouldn't it?

Jeez Louise, we had to jump through hoops to land that trade and now this happens.

[fugazi]

Is it true Carlisle was recruited with the Lovett pick???

[Sainternist]

Is it true Carlisle was recruited with the Lovett pick???

Hahaha Oh golly, that'd just be the icing on the cake, wouldn't it?

[skeptic]

Cokeheads probably wouldn't think twice about getting behind the wheel after a snort.
Let's not forget that those who take cocaine can also drink and get drunk - imagine the combined effects of both alcohol and cocaine in the bloodstream.

"Effects on Driving

Drivers using cocaine may feel that they are more alert and can be better drivers than they would have been without cocaine use. But accident records refute this idea. An analysis of accidents in which the driver used cocaine proved that use of the drug resulted in speeding, loss of control of the vehicle, inattentive driving, and the driver turning in front of other cars. When the driver crashes as they come down off the cocaine high, they can get tired, sleepy and inattentive. In a study of 253 drivers killed in car accidents in Michigan, ten percent tested positive for cocaine. Similar results were found in Memphis, Tennessee in 1993, when 13 percent of drivers stopped for reckless driving were found to have used cocaine. One study in Barcelona showed that the mix of alcohol with cocaine may suppress one’s ability to perceive drunkenness, which may lead someone to drive when they are not capable of driving safely."

I hope St kilda is exploring/inquiring about the possibility of rescinding Jake's contract - it would be the right and responsible thing to do by the club, imho. We should be looking for any way out now. Carlisle is not worth it - or worthy.

So now we're generalising are we? So he's a cokehead now. Pbly means he's killed someone too because cokeheads are pbly more violent then non-cokeheads so really... He shouldn't just be judged, he should go to jail.

Lets see, Jack Steven drove when over the limit recklessly endangering lives of others so he should be sacked too

Every player on 1 or more strikes should be sacked too

Hodge needs to go

Franklin too

Those Hawthorn players in the assault scandle

We should never have kept Milne or Monty either

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING

[matrix]

Someone here did the numbers thing the other day and it was rather ironic
Can't remember what it was but it was 'spooky'