2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

[Con Gorozidis]

Lyon is an out and out failure at list management. I accept he is a very good coach but when it comes to list management he is completely f*cking hopeless.
If I was in charge at Freo Id make sure he was out of the country during October and November.
He has failed again. Completely useless.

[gringo]

Provisional Draft Order

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-22/i ... od-unfolds

Clubs must clear space on their lists to activate the picks otherwise they vanish.

As clubs with academy and father-son candidates bid for players:
That clubs next pick will be promoted and all other remaining picks of all clubs will slide down by one.
If the pick promoted has surplus points those surplus points will create another pick further down the order.
If the pick promoted does not contain enough points that clubs next pick will vanish and any surplus points will create another pick later in the order.

In practice this will mean most picks will slip a few places down the order and will lose points as they have their value renewed with the lesser points of the new position.

St Kilda has provisional picks
14
45
68
81
99
117

With 4 places already created on our senior list and one on our rookie list
Sinclair certain to be promoted
2 players traded in
0 players traded out
St Kilda presently has only one clear senior list slot activating pick 14
A further two unfortunate players can expect to be delisted to activate picks 45 & 68
It is doubtful that picks 81, 99 & 117 will be activated to select a new player.

St Kilda will select a future superstar with pick 14
When Bailey Rice's name is called by another club, probably somewhere in round 2, St Kilda will use a 197 points father son bonus and the revised points from provisional picks 45 & 68.
At present pick 45 = 347 points and pick 68 = 59 points.
But these points will become less as their draft order slides.
I am predicting we could lose 150 to 300 points as these picks slide.
But those points will probably not be enough to secure Rice.
If Rice is indeed called in the second round St Kilda will need to raid points from its 2nd round pick of 2016.
But oops we have sold that to Collingwood so I assume it will be our third round 2016 that gets raided.
I hope it does not become our first rounder 2016 that gets raided.

Why would other clubs bother nominating Rice when they know he will go to Saints under father-son?

Because if they don't we get him with any pick we like. Same with the really good Academy kids.

true, the only bonus is that he's somewhere down the order a bit and less exciting than the academy kids. Like Chol for Brisbane, it's not like Hopper who would be in most teams top 5 picks. I can see clubs letting him slide. Carlton might do it for spiteful reasons and they have had time to assess how they rate him.

[saintsRrising]

Lyon is an out and out failure at list management. I accept he is a very good coach but when it comes to list management he is completely f*cking hopeless.
If I was in charge at Freo Id make sure he was out of the country during October and November.
He has failed again. Completely useless.

You do understand I assume that coaches do not manage the lists????

No doubt Lyon wanted his List Mangement Team to land McCarthy, but they could not get the deal done.

[ripplug66]

Lyon is an out and out failure at list management. I accept he is a very good coach but when it comes to list management he is completely f*cking hopeless.
If I was in charge at Freo Id make sure he was out of the country during October and November.
He has failed again. Completely useless.

I'm unsure you understand how recruiting works. If he has anything to do with it apart from saying we need this type of player then he has to much say. Going by what you have said previously I don't think you understand that.

[Con Gorozidis]

Lyon is an out and out failure at list management. I accept he is a very good coach but when it comes to list management he is completely f*cking hopeless.
If I was in charge at Freo Id make sure he was out of the country during October and November.
He has failed again. Completely useless.

You do understand I assume that coaches do not manage the lists????

No doubt Lyon wanted his List Mangement Team to land McCarthy, but they could not get the deal done.

I understand that they shouldn't manage lists. But I also understand that the head coach is the big dog on campus in a footy club and as such none of them can help getting involved in recruitment. Human nature as it is, means coaches end up having much more say than they ought to. Not many recruiters are going to stand up to the head coach. Thats just how footy clubs and life in general works. There is a hierarchy and not many coach's would have the discipline to not get involved (apologies for the double negative). Probably why Pelchen always ends up getting booted. It would take extreme discipline and professionalism to keep the head coach completely separate from the recruiters. I doubt many AFL clubs achieve this. The only time recruiters get real autonomy is when a club is in switching coaches.

[Con Gorozidis]

Anyway - who are we going to get with pick 14?

[Scoop]

Anyway - who are we going to get with pick 14?

Clayton Oliver for me....although I think there's a lot of love for Jade Gresham!

[Con Gorozidis]

Anyway - who are we going to get with pick 14?

Clayton Oliver for me....although I think there's a lot of love for Jade Gresham!

I like the look of Gresham but is that a position we are already ok in?

My preference in order:

Oliver, Ah Chee, Bonner, Rioli.

[Johnny Member]

Lyon is an out and out failure at list management. I accept he is a very good coach but when it comes to list management he is completely f*cking hopeless.
If I was in charge at Freo Id make sure he was out of the country during October and November.
He has failed again. Completely useless.

I'm unsure you understand how recruiting works. If he has anything to do with it apart from saying we need this type of player then he has to much say. Going by what you have said previously I don't think you understand that.

Very naive view.

You reckon Dawson landed in Freo by accident?

[ripplug66]

Lyon is an out and out failure at list management. I accept he is a very good coach but when it comes to list management he is completely f*cking hopeless.
If I was in charge at Freo Id make sure he was out of the country during October and November.
He has failed again. Completely useless.

I'm unsure you understand how recruiting works. If he has anything to do with it apart from saying we need this type of player then he has to much say. Going by what you have said previously I don't think you understand that.

Very naive view.

You reckon Dawson landed in Freo by accident?

No I don't but he cant do the wheeling and dealing and the organising of trades and picks so they they are capable of getting a forward. Anyone thinking that is expecting something far to much. Its easy to get a OOC Dawson when we didn't want him because of SC but its impossible for a coach to get 2 first round picks for a in contract forward that GWS wouldn't release. That is for his recruiters and list management group to try and do.

[Johnny Member]

So you are now saying a coach (in this case Ross Lyon) personally hand picks who he wants on his list?

[ripplug66]

So you are now saying a coach (in this case Ross Lyon) personally hand picks who he wants on his list?

Yes they may. I said that already when I said they may say we need this type of player and if he knows the name of this type of player then the recruiters then try and get him. That would have happened with McCarthy. The coach then has very little to do with it apart from talking to the player concerned. He has nothing to do with the actual trading. If they don't come it isn't the coaches fault unless of course they don't like the coach. That certainly wasn't the case with McCarthy.

[busso mick]

So you are now saying a coach (in this case Ross Lyon) personally hand picks who he wants on his list?

Yes they may. I said that already when I said they may say we need this type of player and if he knows the name of this type of player then the recruiters then try and get him. That would have happened with McCarthy. The coach then has very little to do with it apart from talking to the player concerned. He has nothing to do with the actual trading. If they don't come it isn't the coaches fault unless of course they don't like the coach. That certainly wasn't the case with McCarthy.

My feeling is that Richardson was the main influence in trying to recruit Carlisle with his previous relationship with him when on the training staff at Essendon.

[ripplug66]

So you are now saying a coach (in this case Ross Lyon) personally hand picks who he wants on his list?

Yes they may. I said that already when I said they may say we need this type of player and if he knows the name of this type of player then the recruiters then try and get him. That would have happened with McCarthy. The coach then has very little to do with it apart from talking to the player concerned. He has nothing to do with the actual trading. If they don't come it isn't the coaches fault unless of course they don't like the coach. That certainly wasn't the case with McCarthy.

My feeling is that Richardson was the main influence in trying to recruit Carlisle with his previous relationship with him when on the training staff at Essendon.

I agree but if we didn't get him it isn't him who stuffed up. Its either Essendon were pigheaded or our list management team stuffed up.

[Johnny Member]

So you are now saying a coach (in this case Ross Lyon) personally hand picks who he wants on his list?

Yes they may. I said that already when I said they may say we need this type of player and if he knows the name of this type of player then the recruiters then try and get him. That would have happened with McCarthy. The coach then has very little to do with it apart from talking to the player concerned. He has nothing to do with the actual trading. If they don't come it isn't the coaches fault unless of course they don't like the coach. That certainly wasn't the case with McCarthy.

But if they do get them - like Sylvia and Gumbleton, and they're duds, like Sylvia and Gumbleton, then the coach clearly must take responsibility for it.

[sunsaint]

My feeling is that Richardson was the main influence in trying to recruit Carlisle with his previous relationship with him when on the training staff at Essendon.

absolutely the reason why we got Carlisle - which is why I am reserving judgement at the moment
No different from when Lyon got Lovett to the saints...just hope in this case it turns out a WHOLE lot better
Our pick 14 had better be the pick of 2015 & miles ahead of the 13 before him to make up for this trade

[Dr Spaceman]

My feeling is that Richardson was the main influence in trying to recruit Carlisle with his previous relationship with him when on the training staff at Essendon.

absolutely the reason why we got Carlisle - which is why I am reserving judgement at the moment
No different from when Lyon got Lovett to the saints...just hope in this case it turns out a WHOLE lot better
Our pick 14 had better be the pick of 2015 & miles ahead of the 13 before him to make up for this trade

Agree with most of what you say, however I don't think we can blame Jake if the players selected 1 - 4 are better than our pick at #14.

[sunsaint]

That's because you're not reading between the lines and looking at the big picture stuff
Pick 5 could very well be better than this before him
Pick 14 might have a bit more work in front of him
Here's hoping Milera, or Rioli(?) Will be those players