2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

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Gordo'
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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585730Post Gordo' »

Playon wrote:
saintjake wrote:Why don't we just take him PSD and keep 5?!?
That may happen yet, the only thing I'm concerned about is that Carlton have said that if Carlisle is in the PSD they will select him.
We'd need to front end his contract up heavily, I don't know how their cap space is going with the movements theyve had
oh ffs!!! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

flowering finally! some flowering sense at last! thank you saintjake and playon! (playon? i won't even ask....name like that....you ARE a muso. :D )

now lets see if i've got this flowering straight.....carlisle and his booking agent have committed to the one true path (that'd be us)...right?
good.....because then only one flowering thing flowering matters....do we have more space in our salary cap than those other cheats, the flowering brown paperbag wearing ones??? if we do, then i have just one word and one (sort of) acronym.....flowering frontload and flowering psd! :twisted:

and the flowering drug takers and that flowering mob who wash their flowering jumpers in a flowering toploading toilet brand washing machine :roll: .....can go take a flowering flying ffs at a rolling donut. (i guess that'd be a ffffs then?) :twisted:

ok punters, what now to do with our pick 5??? i don't know enough about it, but could be partial to a 5 for 9&13 type deal.....or as has been suggested by a few other punters.....has that treloar dude inked a contract yet? :mrgreen:


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585736Post St Ick »

Scoop wrote:
St Ick wrote:
This years draft is not like every draft, a top five pick is like gold especially this year. Picks 23 and 25 arent close to pick 5s worth, regardless of how the points system works out the value of a pick.

Where people go wrong is that points are only valuable to a club with an academy/FS player - in the real world (with every other club not in that category) a pick is still valued at where a player can be drafted at. If the quality still available at that pick is pathetic, then that is the value of the pick.
Also with St Ick here.....can we stop trying to evaluate a pick's worth using the points system.

It is a totally specious argument! As pointed out, it can only be used in the context of academy/FS picks.
In the context of normal draft picks, their value is determined bythe expected quality of player available at that pick.

Take the 2012 draft as an example. Jake Stringer wa the #5 pick. We picked Wright & White @ #24 & #25. You don't have to be Einstein to work out the value of those respective picks! (Btw I still rate N Wright and hope he has a breakout year in 2016....as long as he's still with us! ).

In this draft, pick 5 has WAY more value than those 20s picks, if using them to draft players. Where they are valuable is using them to trade up with an 'academy club' that requires them for points value.
Thanks Scoop, appreciate the kind words.

The 2012 draft is a fantastic example and probably comparable to this years draft. Not too many big wins even outside of the top 10 of that draft, it would be actually be an interesting exercise to give a points value based on how each of those picks went in that draft!

As you said, it's like drafting Wright and White vs Stringer, or Wines. I would almost guarantee that one of or a couple of Curnow, Mathieson, Parish or Francis will turn out to be a grade superstars - and the hindsight heroes will probably complain that we gave up our rights to one of these guys (probably the same type who rubbishes the suggestion of two second rounders).

Once again though, thanks Scoop, good to see come common sense still around these parts :)


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585738Post Royston »

Long Term Injury wrote:
Scoop wrote:
St Ick wrote:Wtf is going on with all of this Hawthorn rubbish?

Carlisle has personally rung Richo to reiterate he is as good as guaranteed to be a Saint.

His manager has been with Bains a lot of the day, has confirmed he will get his client to the Saints.

Watch the interview with Carlisles manager, he couldn't possibly be more forward in saying Carlisle is going to the Saints, not interested in Hawks. Basically calling out everything Dodoro has said as BS (without actually saying it).

This years draft is not like every draft, a top five pick is like gold especially this year. Picks 23 and 25 arent close to pick 5s worth, regardless of how the points system works out the value of a pick.

Where people go wrong is that points are only valuable to a club with an academy/FS player - in the real world (with every other club not in that category) a pick is still valued at where a player can be drafted at. If the quality still available at that pick is pathetic, then that is the value of the pick.

Essendon have tried to play us through the media and used every dirty tactic in the book. St Kilda, Carlisle and his manager have called their bluff and now we will win the trade. Essendon have once again shot themselves in the foot by playing a very dangerous game and thry have given up any chance of a winning trade for their club.

I still think we will get 23 & 25, we may have to improve our side of it by including our third or a player, but what comes back will remain the same imo.
Finally some sense being spoken. Excellent summation if the situation St Ick.
Plus two, fantastic post. The pick valuations are just an arbitrary measurement. Stick strong

Spot on St Ick....super post

Some of the suggested trades and pick swap scenarios are way off base and just highlight the confusion (ignorance) of posters understanding of the points process.
Only relevant for F/S and Academy selections.
I am obviously not across all the back room discussions but you would have to doubt most of what Dildoro states.
Using the media to negotiate his/their position is a sign that he is under pressure and in a somewhat self preservation mode attempting to show that it is the saints and not them who are road bocking the the deal.
The Richmond offer - what a low life stating this....and on air.
Not surprising to hear that Ameet has covered all bases and that he has already spoken with all other 'interstate' clubs about a pick 5 swap for 2 1st rounders coming back in some fashion....mentions this to Dildoro and he thinks, gee perhaps we (bombers) should do this also!
He probably has such a bad rep with other clubs that they won't accommodate his suggestions - hard not to imagine that Richmond would be overly happy with his behaviour.
It's a game of chess and Dildoro is almost in checkmate !!
Hello PSD if we don't get what we want trade wise...


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585740Post SuperDuper »

changing topics a bit...

Did anyone notice that GC offered to trade pick 6 for Howe and pick 3?

Does this indicate that GC have someone in mind to draft who will be available at 6, so they figured they get Howe for free?

Are they looking beyond Francis/Parish? (assuming Weitering and Schache go 1-2)

Should we hang on to pick 5, if we think Francis/Parish will be available?????


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585779Post saintjake »

-Pick 5 & future second rounder to Adelaide for pick 9, 13 & 28
-Pick 24 & 28 to GWS for pick 8
-Pick 13 for Carlisle and Pick 23
-Pick 23 for Freeman


We lose pick 5, 24 and a future second rounder
We gain 8, 9, Carlisle & Freeman


Any takers?


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585780Post longtimesaint »

saintjake wrote:-Pick 5 & future second rounder to Adelaide for pick 9, 13 & 28
-Pick 24 & 28 to GWS for pick 8
-Pick 13 for Carlisle and Pick 23
-Pick 23 for Freeman


We lose pick 5, 24 and a future second rounder
We gain 8, 9, Carlisle & Freeman


Any takers?
That would be great for us but I can't see Adelaide or GWS doing it!


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585781Post CQ SAINT »

One month ago I was happy we had picks 5 and 24 and thought we would snag a young gun and a good kid with a few tricks from the draft.

Now I believe there is a strong possibility we could get a
top young mid - 5
Freeman - 24
Rice - 45
promote Sinclair - 63
and risk Carlisle in the PSD for peanuts.

Id be more than happy to take the risk.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585785Post St Ick »

CQ SAINT wrote:One month ago I was happy we had picks 5 and 24 and thought we would snag a young gun and a good kid with a few tricks from the draft.

Now I believe there is a strong possibility we could get a
top young mid - 5
Freeman - 24
Rice - 45
promote Sinclair - 63
and risk Carlisle in the PSD for peanuts.

Id be more than happy to take the risk.
Or this...

The same top young mid - 7, 8 or 10
Freeman - next years second
Rice - combination of picks
Promote Sinclair - 63
Carlisle - 24 and maybe a player for an eventual downgrade of a few spots

I'd prefer to trade, because it would show we win trades, aren't pricks by sending players to the uncertainty of the PSD and most importantly get it done.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585791Post CQ SAINT »

St Ick wrote:
CQ SAINT wrote:One month ago I was happy we had picks 5 and 24 and thought we would snag a young gun and a good kid with a few tricks from the draft.

Now I believe there is a strong possibility we could get a
top young mid - 5
Freeman - 24
Rice - 45
promote Sinclair - 63
and risk Carlisle in the PSD for peanuts.

Id be more than happy to take the risk.
Or this...

The same top young mid - 7, 8 or 10
Freeman - next years second
Rice - combination of picks
Promote Sinclair - 63
Carlisle - 24 and maybe a player for an eventual downgrade of a few spots

I'd prefer to trade, because it would show we win trades, aren't pricks by sending players to the uncertainty of the PSD and most importantly get it done.
Agreed. Just said the same thing in the Carlisle post. I hope this is where we are headed. 24 and a player or nothing. Then we say 'you had a chance at 5 and didnt want it. We did our best to trade but your stunts in the media, stubborn behaviour and lack of consideration for player is compromising our other plans and other players futures and you leave us with no other choice


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585794Post ripplug66 »

CQ SAINT wrote:
St Ick wrote:
CQ SAINT wrote:One month ago I was happy we had picks 5 and 24 and thought we would snag a young gun and a good kid with a few tricks from the draft.

Now I believe there is a strong possibility we could get a
top young mid - 5
Freeman - 24
Rice - 45
promote Sinclair - 63
and risk Carlisle in the PSD for peanuts.

Id be more than happy to take the risk.
Or this...

The same top young mid - 7, 8 or 10
Freeman - next years second
Rice - combination of picks
Promote Sinclair - 63
Carlisle - 24 and maybe a player for an eventual downgrade of a few spots

I'd prefer to trade, because it would show we win trades, aren't pricks by sending players to the uncertainty of the PSD and most importantly get it done.
Agreed. Just said the same thing in the Carlisle post. I hope this is where we are headed. 24 and a player or nothing. Then we say 'you had a chance at 5 and didnt want it. We did our best to trade but your stunts in the media, stubborn behaviour and lack of consideration for player is compromising our other plans and other players futures and you leave us with no other choice

Havent we already offered 5? I think we have moved past 24 and a player.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585799Post bigred »

Not if its coming down to the wire......

And it's all they are going to get.

They knocked back our offer of 5.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585800Post ripplug66 »

bigred wrote:Not if its coming down to the wire......

And it's all they are going to get.

They knocked back our offer of 5.

They knocked back the idea of 2 picks coming back to us. It will end up being pick for Carlisle and their second rounder IMO. The same that I thought it would always be.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585814Post evo »

ripplug66 wrote:
bigred wrote:Not if its coming down to the wire......

And it's all they are going to get.

They knocked back our offer of 5.

They knocked back the idea of 2 picks coming back to us. It will end up being pick for Carlisle and their second rounder IMO. The same that I thought it would always be.
That's the way I've seen it since day one. More effort has been used trying to get one up on the bombers than getting the deal done.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585815Post ausfatcat »

evo wrote:That's the way I've seen it since day one. More effort has been used trying to get one up on the bombers than getting the deal done.
but yet the bombers still want a straight swap


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585818Post markp »

I hope we've got a cunning plan here.

I'm worried that it may just be giving them exactly what they want at the death... Immediately followed by them guffawing, and bragging about stooging us.

You've gotta wonder if given the history between player and club, the last thing the bombers want to do is smoothly facilitate Carlisle's preference.

We really shouldn't be dealing with these pr!cks.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585819Post St Ick »

ripplug66 wrote:
CQ SAINT wrote:
St Ick wrote:
CQ SAINT wrote:One month ago I was happy we had picks 5 and 24 and thought we would snag a young gun and a good kid with a few tricks from the draft.

Now I believe there is a strong possibility we could get a
top young mid - 5
Freeman - 24
Rice - 45
promote Sinclair - 63
and risk Carlisle in the PSD for peanuts.

Id be more than happy to take the risk.
Or this...

The same top young mid - 7, 8 or 10
Freeman - next years second
Rice - combination of picks
Promote Sinclair - 63
Carlisle - 24 and maybe a player for an eventual downgrade of a few spots

I'd prefer to trade, because it would show we win trades, aren't pricks by sending players to the uncertainty of the PSD and most importantly get it done.
Agreed. Just said the same thing in the Carlisle post. I hope this is where we are headed. 24 and a player or nothing. Then we say 'you had a chance at 5 and didnt want it. We did our best to trade but your stunts in the media, stubborn behaviour and lack of consideration for player is compromising our other plans and other players futures and you leave us with no other choice

Havent we already offered 5? I think we have moved past 24 and a player.
We've moved past 24 and a player but that might be the net result of a number of trades anyway.

Eg, Pick 5 and a player for Carlisle, picks 23 and 25. On trade pick 23, 24 & 25 for pick 8 - draft same player.

Net result, pick 24 and a player.

It's just an option and a very basic one at that, but shows what can happen.

Stavro over on the other site has said that we are looking towards Weller and that we've adjusted our plans since Thursday's events. If Weller comes to our club as part of their deal for McCarthy then I think our plans won't include getting a top 10 pick.

Either way, the mood has definitely changed since Carlisle and his manager came out and pledged their allegiance to us on Friday.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585835Post Playon »

Gordo' wrote:
flowering finally! some flowering sense at last! thank you saintjake and playon! (playon? i won't even ask....name like that....you ARE a muso. :D )
Were getting the band back together again Jake. Anyone heard the fat lady sing yet?


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585849Post Bunk_Moreland »

Massive heads up for anyone with Brian_Speakings twitter feed.

Tune in @ 10.00 for a massive Woj bomb regarding a Saints trade. Promising to be the biggest of the Trade period


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585850Post Playon »

Already have the countdown clock going :)


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585851Post realdeal »

Bunk_Moreland wrote:Massive heads up for anyone with Brian_Speakings twitter feed.

Tune in @ 10.00 for a massive Woj bomb regarding a Saints trade. Promising to be the biggest of the Trade period
Hopefully us 'untwittered' can get a rundown?


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585852Post Playon »

You dont need to be twittered you can read it here
https://twitter.com/Brian_Speaking


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585853Post realdeal »

Playon wrote:You dont need to be twittered you can read it here
https://twitter.com/Brian_Speaking
Cool, ta


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585858Post SaintPav »

I thought BS died in the Black Saturday bush fires.


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585859Post CarlD »

Don't tell me we've now promised pick 5 to someone else given that Essendon turned us down???? :D


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Re: 2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

Post: # 1585860Post Playon »

Brian Speaking
‏@Brian_Speaking

Essendon looking like accepting Saints offer, Saints trading up to 8,Lachy Weller a gen chance. Jaeger O'Meara for pick 8 and 1st rounder 16


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