Jake Carlisle

[Hemi Baxter]

Still that is exactly the sort of deal we will be flat out trying to negotiate. As for the earlier question of his value, my point is that we sent a signal to Essendon as to what he was worth to us and they asked for it. If you examine the mooted Hawks/ Nth / Ess deal using the new points system, as others have pointed out, it values Carlisle around pick 6 or 7. Maybe not what Haw will pay him but what the clubs jointly will have paid for him. We set that value.

[ace]

could see something along these lines being worked on:

3 team trade - Saints, Suns, Power

Saints get: pick 10 (port) and pick 29 (port)
Gold Coast get: Pick 5 (saints) and Pick 42 (saints)
Power get: Charlie Dixon and pick 35(suns)

Saints then trade pick 10 and next years 2nd round to Essendon for Jake Carlisle

Trade pick 24 to Collingwood for Freeman

Use pick 29 on Bailey rice.

If we finish in the same place on ladder next year our 2nd round is pick 23 assuming no mid and end of first round free agency compensations.
Pick 10 = 1,395 points
2016 pick 23 = 815 points
Total for Carlisle = 2,210 points - that is half way between pick 3 and 4.
Pick 5 is only 1,878 points.

The pertinent points are
Hawthorn has effectively offered Essendon value somewhere between pick 6 & 7 for Carlisle.
Carlisle is believed to have failed to say NO to Clarkson, so Hawthorn could proceed.
St Kilda has to provide Essendon with value at least pick 6 if it wants Carlisle, pay him an excessive salary and risk a WADA suspension.

The only way we get Carlisle, the excessive salary and the risk of the WADA suspension is by giving up pick 5 or next years first round pick.
Let Hawthorn do what they will do.
Move on Saints, Carlisle is not for us.

[amusingname]

Should have stated from the outset, I am not really too fussed about getting carlisle and am leaning towards wanting to keep pick 5, just trying to think of a scenario that if our brains trust are really hell bent on Carlisle but just don't want to give up 5 on principle now.

[ace]

Should have stated from the outset, I am not really too fussed about getting carlisle and am leaning towards wanting to keep pick 5, just trying to think of a scenario that if our brains trust are really hell bent on Carlisle but just don't want to give up 5 on principle now.

It is give up pick 5 or move on.

[IanRush]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

[bozza1980]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

[IanRush]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

[longtimesaint]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

Clubs that are trading with Essendon know there is a risk with the players subject to the WADA investigation.

[St Chris]

So how about we call Essendon's bluff back, and see what sort of ego they really have....

Offer up 5 and 24, for Carlisle and Essendon's 2016 1st round pick.

Bombers probably expect they'll finish top 4 next year, thinking they're getting a great deal.

It's a risk, but i think i'd be pretty happy with that.

Thoughts??

[IanRush]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

Clubs that are trading with Essendon know there is a risk with the players subject to the WADA investigation.

Totally agree, the angle I’m coming from is whether the AFL has issued a memo to all clubs on this issue.

From an outsider’s eye, I support St Kilda’s stance in not offering Pick 5 for Carlisle, it’s good negotiating, and common sense.

As someone said above, Adrian Dodoro was a co-investor in the dodgy Armstrong Creek property deal involving Mark Casey (Ess Coterie Club), Bomber Thomspon and Justin Madden (who signed off on the suspect land re-zoning for Armstrong Creek in 2010).

[Con Gorozidis]

Lets just move on IMO. Top kid, Freeman, Rice.

If the Hawks put 15 and 18 on the table - its game over.

But boy do we have to make pick 5 count. Cannot stuff it up. Stringer and Do Goey are the last two pick 5s.

[Con Gorozidis]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

Clubs that are trading with Essendon know there is a risk with the players subject to the WADA investigation.

Totally agree, the angle I’m coming from is whether the AFL has issued a memo to all clubs on this issue.

From an outsider’s eye, I support St Kilda’s stance in not offering Pick 5 for Carlisle, it’s good negotiating, and common sense.

As someone said above, Adrian Dodoro was a co-investor in the dodgy Armstrong Creek property deal involving Mark Casey (Ess Coterie Club), Bomber Thomspon and Justin Madden (who signed off on the suspect land re-zoning for Armstrong Creek in 2010).

Yeah but if we wanted Carlisle - like we said we did - we needed to get a suitable pick. Something between 10-14 - but we werent able to do a that for whatever reason. Now the horse has bolted.

[Mr Magic]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

Clubs that are trading with Essendon know there is a risk with the players subject to the WADA investigation.

Totally agree, the angle I’m coming from is whether the AFL has issued a memo to all clubs on this issue.

From an outsider’s eye, I support St Kilda’s stance in not offering Pick 5 for Carlisle, it’s good negotiating, and common sense.

As someone said above, Adrian Dodoro was a co-investor in the dodgy Armstrong Creek property deal involving Mark Casey (Ess Coterie Club), Bomber Thomspon and Justin Madden (who signed off on the suspect land re-zoning for Armstrong Creek in 2010).

Yeah but if we wanted Carlisle - like we said we did - we needed to get a suitable pick. Something between 10-14 - but we werent able to do a that for whatever reason. Now the horse has bolted.

Has Carlisle been traded to Hawthorn?
If not then how has 'the horse bolted'
Surely we're still in negotiations until we either state we're no longer interested or Essendon trade him somewhere else.
Until either of those scenarios eventuate then AFAIK we are still his preferred destination and therefore still able to secure him (somehow).

[Bunk_Moreland]

Lets just move on IMO. Top kid, Freeman, Rice.

If the Hawks put 15 and 18 on the table - its game over.

But boy do we have to make pick 5 count. Cannot stuff it up. Stringer and Do Goey are the last two pick 5s.

I agree and with the news that Brisbane are looking at Curnow as their pick, we may have a pick or Parish, Francis, Mathesion or a couple of others.

Really we should just let Carlisle go and concentrate on others.

We still have four days with a massive SC war chest, still have to land Freeman and can still get a backman or even another mid.

We aren't challenging next year so plenty of time to get a big backman. Just make sure they are not from theses Essendon crim scumbags

[longtimesaint]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

Clubs that are trading with Essendon know there is a risk with the players subject to the WADA investigation.

Totally agree, the angle I’m coming from is whether the AFL has issued a memo to all clubs on this issue.
Carlisle has indicated that he wants to go the Saints and will consider Hawthorn rather than going into the draft.
That should mean we have until next Thursday to continue negotiations before the threat of going into the draft is a reality.
From an outsider’s eye, I support St Kilda’s stance in not offering Pick 5 for Carlisle, it’s good negotiating, and common sense.

As someone said above, Adrian Dodoro was a co-investor in the dodgy Armstrong Creek property deal involving Mark Casey (Ess Coterie Club), Bomber Thomspon and Justin Madden (who signed off on the suspect land re-zoning for Armstrong Creek in 2010).

Yeah but if we wanted Carlisle - like we said we did - we needed to get a suitable pick. Something between 10-14 - but we werent able to do a that for whatever reason. Now the horse has bolted.

Has Carlisle been traded to Hawthorn?
If not then how has 'the horse bolted'
Surely we're still in negotiations until we either state we're no longer interested or Essendon trade him somewhere else.
Until either of those scenarios eventuate then AFAIK we are still his preferred destination and therefore still able to secure him (somehow).

[Con Gorozidis]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

Clubs that are trading with Essendon know there is a risk with the players subject to the WADA investigation.

Totally agree, the angle I’m coming from is whether the AFL has issued a memo to all clubs on this issue.
Carlisle has indicated that he wants to go the Saints and will consider Hawthorn rather than going into the draft.
That should mean we have until next Thursday to continue negotiations before the threat of going into the draft is a reality.
From an outsider’s eye, I support St Kilda’s stance in not offering Pick 5 for Carlisle, it’s good negotiating, and common sense.

As someone said above, Adrian Dodoro was a co-investor in the dodgy Armstrong Creek property deal involving Mark Casey (Ess Coterie Club), Bomber Thomspon and Justin Madden (who signed off on the suspect land re-zoning for Armstrong Creek in 2010).

Yeah but if we wanted Carlisle - like we said we did - we needed to get a suitable pick. Something between 10-14 - but we werent able to do a that for whatever reason. Now the horse has bolted.

Has Carlisle been traded to Hawthorn?
If not then how has 'the horse bolted'
Surely we're still in negotiations until we either state we're no longer interested or Essendon trade him somewhere else.
Until either of those scenarios eventuate then AFAIK we are still his preferred destination and therefore still able to secure him (somehow).

What are we still negotiating? We either have a suitable trade or we dont. Apparently we dont. We had weeks to sort it out and come up with a fair deal.
We needed to get to a pick 10-14 but we failed to do so. There is nothing left to negotiate.

[saintjake]

Shut up you grumpy old galoot^

[Bunk_Moreland]

Hi all,
Quick question, has any club during the trade period gone to the AFL and said “If we trade for a player listed in WADA’s Charge Sheet against Essendon’s 20112 program, will the AFL compensate/insure us with an equivalent player/draft pick, in the event that we trade, and the player is suspended by WADA?”

Surely St Kilda or another club, is asking the AFL this question (discreetly) when dealing on "Essendon 34" players.

There is no way the AFL will insure clubs against this.

It is not as if the clubs don't know the possible sanctions hanging over the heads of these players, it has to be a case of "buyer beware".

So why is the AFL letting player trades happen for these 34 players then?

Clubs that are trading with Essendon know there is a risk with the players subject to the WADA investigation.

Totally agree, the angle I’m coming from is whether the AFL has issued a memo to all clubs on this issue.
Carlisle has indicated that he wants to go the Saints and will consider Hawthorn rather than going into the draft.
That should mean we have until next Thursday to continue negotiations before the threat of going into the draft is a reality.
From an outsider’s eye, I support St Kilda’s stance in not offering Pick 5 for Carlisle, it’s good negotiating, and common sense.

As someone said above, Adrian Dodoro was a co-investor in the dodgy Armstrong Creek property deal involving Mark Casey (Ess Coterie Club), Bomber Thomspon and Justin Madden (who signed off on the suspect land re-zoning for Armstrong Creek in 2010).

Yeah but if we wanted Carlisle - like we said we did - we needed to get a suitable pick. Something between 10-14 - but we werent able to do a that for whatever reason. Now the horse has bolted.

Has Carlisle been traded to Hawthorn?
If not then how has 'the horse bolted'
Surely we're still in negotiations until we either state we're no longer interested or Essendon trade him somewhere else.
Until either of those scenarios eventuate then AFAIK we are still his preferred destination and therefore still able to secure him (somehow).

What are we still negotiating? We either have a suitable trade or we dont. Apparently we dont. We had weeks to sort it out and come up with a fair deal.
We needed to get to a pick 10-14 but we failed to do so. There is nothing left to negotiate.

Does the trade period end today?

[prwilkinson]

Perhaps St.Kilda is waiting on another trade before they make a decision on what to give for Jake, like Dixon from Gold Coast to Port Adelaide. Perhaps we're trading pick 5 to the Suns for 2 picks. Just an idea.

[Grrrrr]

Saints have made an offer...

However it is confidential at this stage.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-10-1 ... to-bombers

[prwilkinson]

Saints have made an offer...

However it is confidential at this stage.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-10-1 ... to-bombers

The plot thickens.

[Con Gorozidis]

Saints have made an offer...

However it is confidential at this stage.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-10-1 ... to-bombers

Must involve a player to be confidential.

Anyone care to guess who the player might be? Ross + 24 seems plausible. Bombers need to replace Watson and Stanton.

I'd be a bit sad as I like the kid and think hes going to make it. But it might be the only way. If we get Matho/Milera/Oliver with pick 5 it will be a good consolation.

[Con Gorozidis]

Perhaps St.Kilda is waiting on another trade before they make a decision on what to give for Jake, like Dixon from Gold Coast to Port Adelaide. Perhaps we're trading pick 5 to the Suns for 2 picks. Just an idea.

How long can we wait? Trade period is almost over and we have already had weeks to work it out.

[saintjake]

Bombers rejected the offer.
The way I read the release.. It's very much one of those "read between the lines things"
The offer we gave would not have been pick 5 and not something Essendon would like. But we've now offered something, that both the club and Carlisle believe is fair.. Paving a way for Carlisle to leave for nothing.

He said he didn't want to leave the club with nothing. But if they keep rejecting our offer, he has every right to leave.

[saintjake]

Perhaps St.Kilda is waiting on another trade before they make a decision on what to give for Jake, like Dixon from Gold Coast to Port Adelaide. Perhaps we're trading pick 5 to the Suns for 2 picks. Just an idea.

How long can we wait? Trade period is almost over and we have already had weeks to work it out.

Another whole week. Why are you so desperate to get it done ASAP.