Is the Club Being Pig Headed?

[damienc]

Remember. This is a question. Not a statement.

The Jake Carlisle trade is not a good look irrespective of whether you think he is a good fit for us or not.

Personally I would love to have him. 200cm key defenders don't just fall off trees.

If we lose him we are going to look like fools. People who can't get the job done. We look indecisive.

Carlisle wants to come. The club wants him but doesn't want to give up pick 5. I get all that.

The so called creative solution of exchanging 5 for two other high picks is evaporating fast.

We now have opportunists like Hawthorn ready to swoop.

Essendon are a treacherous lot who like to play by their own rules.

But we are going to have to deal with them. If we truly want Carlisle we need to give them pick 5 or a first round pick from next year or walk away and let him go to Hawthorn.

I am sure many of you here think we should just walk away. But like I said. A 200 cm KPD is a rare commodity. This bloke would make a big difference down back. Can we afford to pass up the opportunity?

Whatever we do, we need to make a call asap. The longer this drags on the worse it will be in terms of our standing with the other clubs. And we still have the Freeman trade to sort out.

Come on Sainters. On yer bike !

[ausfatcat]

If we lose him we are going to look like fools. People who can't get the job done. We look indecisive.

Why do we look indecisive and not Essendon being unreasonable?

[longtimesaint]

If we lose him we are going to look like fools. People who can't get the job done. We look indecisive.

Why do we look indecisive and not Essendon being unreasonable?

While I think pick 5 is over paying for Carlisle we haven't been able to swap 5 for two picks.
Therefore we haven't been able to offer Essendon anything for Carlisle.
It stands to reason they will look elsewhere.

[magnifisaint]

The problem is that there maybe some other big deals waiting to happen before we can act on Carlisle. Just because Dildoro has he's own agenda, doesn't means the Saints should jump to appease his.

[magnifisaint]

If we lose him we are going to look like fools. People who can't get the job done. We look indecisive.

Why do we look indecisive and not Essendon being unreasonable?

While I think pick 5 is over paying for Carlisle we haven't been able to swap 5 for two picks.
Therefore we haven't been able to offer Essendon anything for Carlisle.
It stands to reason they will look elsewhere.

Not unless Carlisle says so. He may be privy to the Saints tactics. We will know in a few hours. Dildo may look like a complete dick after this.

[St Chris]

I dont think we're being pig headed.

Too many asterix's on Carlisle's value for us to go in head first and do whatever it takes. Attitude, back problems, knee tendonitis, out of contract, not to mention any threat of WADA involvement.

If he was a model citizen with a perfect health record who was early 20's, 200cm and almost 100 games, then sure, blow the bank on him. But he's not that package.

People are overvaluing picks outside the top 10 in this years draft. If the Hawks get the deal done, whether it's true or not we can come out and say "we put Pick 5 on the table, and Essendon went the other direction", and Dildoro will look like a fool when 16 and 18 become GOP's at best.

[Legendary]

The opposite. We look measured, focused and like we are executing a plan without being caught up in the emotion of other clubs.

The suggested North/Hawks deal stinks for the Roos, unless they think that Anderson is the next Judd.

Keep calm - the Saints are playing this right. When we get Carlisle and we don't lose pick 5 outright, everyone will be saying we are trading geniuses and we called Essendon's bluff.

[saynta]

The problem is that there maybe some other big deals waiting to happen before we can act on Carlisle. Just because Dildoro has he's own agenda, doesn't means the Saints should jump to appease his.

I agree, keep your powder dry and don't piss yourself.

[Johnny Member]

Remember. This is a question. Not a statement.

The Jake Carlisle trade is not a good look irrespective of whether you think he is a good fit for us or not.

Personally I would love to have him. 200cm key defenders don't just fall off trees.

If we lose him we are going to look like fools. People who can't get the job done. We look indecisive.

Carlisle wants to come. The club wants him but doesn't want to give up pick 5. I get all that.

The so called creative solution of exchanging 5 for two other high picks is evaporating fast.

We now have opportunists like Hawthorn ready to swoop.

Essendon are a treacherous lot who like to play by their own rules.

But we are going to have to deal with them. If we truly want Carlisle we need to give them pick 5 or a first round pick from next year or walk away and let him go to Hawthorn.

I am sure many of you here think we should just walk away. But like I said. A 200 cm KPD is a rare commodity. This bloke would make a big difference down back. Can we afford to pass up the opportunity?

Whatever we do, we need to make a call asap. The longer this drags on the worse it will be in terms of our standing with the other clubs. And we still have the Freeman trade to sort out.

Come on Sainters. On yer bike !

It's a reasonable question.

However, I don't think you can call it being 'pig headed' when the club has made a strategic decision to hold pick 5 no matter what - and are sticking to that decision.

If anything, you could call it 'professional and responsible' more than anything.

[thejiggingsaint]

Honestly, I sometimes have to scratch my head at some of the comments that appear on this forum at times. "pig headed"? pigs arse!!!! The club are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I personally think that if the Carlisle trade goes ahead without us giving up pick five, then its been a good example of good hard negotiating rather than pig headedness. As far as I'm concerned pick five should be used for either (a) getting extra picks (b) drafting the best young player available. Story ended!

[SaintPav]

Why? Because we're not giving Essendon what they want.

There are two sides to the deal.

We still might pick up Carlisle for nothing.

Sounds like you have been reading Jake Niall.

[thejiggingsaint]

Cool heads. Strong nerve. I know! its SO Un-St Kilda! Get used to it!

[SainterK]

I'd rather a reputation of pigheadedness than what essendon will forever be famous for...

[Munga]

Two points:

Trout and Bains have never had an issue with trading until Diodorant.
Everyone has always had an issue trading with Diodorant, full stop.

Nothing else needs to be said.

[jaxons]

The problem is that there maybe some other big deals waiting to happen before we can act on Carlisle. Just because Dildoro has he's own agenda, doesn't means the Saints should jump to appease his.

Could not have summed it up better, well played.
Just wait for Charlie Dixon to be traded to Port Adelaide.

Cool heads. Strong nerve. I know! its SO Un-St Kilda! Get used to it!

By the end of this trade period you will be so impressed by the way our club handled itself.
We are staying strong, Carlisle is committed to getting to St.Kilda and we won't be bullied or railroaded by Essendon or anyone.

[satchmo]

The problem is that there maybe some other big deals waiting to happen before we can act on Carlisle. Just because Dildoro has he's own agenda, doesn't means the Saints should jump to appease his.

Could not have summed it up better, well played.
Just wait for Charlie Dixon to be traded to Port Adelaide.

Cool heads. Strong nerve. I know! its SO Un-St Kilda! Get used to it!

By the end of this trade period you will be so impressed by the way our club handled itself.
We are staying strong, Carlisle is committed to getting to St.Kilda and we won't be bullied or railroaded by Essendon or anyone.

Sounds promising.

The media will always tell us we did wrong. We didn't appease their gods.
I'd love to play poker with some of the people on here.

[SaintPav]

We are staying strong, Carlisle is committed to getting to St.Kilda and we won't be bullied or railroaded by Essendon or anyone.

Nor from Jake Niall's selective reporting.

Not for the first time, Hawthorn has shown the Saints how to do something. In this case, the lesson handed out is in the art of landing a player.

If St Kilda does not move quickly and find a way to satisfy Essendon, then Jake Carlisle will be wearing a brown and gold jumper – and quite possibly a premiership medal – in 2016. He will look good in that garish jumper, but it will not be a good look for the rest of the competition.

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[felix]

There are no real prizes for getting the deals done in the first three or so days , it's a two week process long way to go yet. In a way Essondom have done very well to mount the pressure on the Saints to cough up number 5 they have tried their best to create some sort of panic with the Hawks deal but were not biting .

[st.rick]

I'm pretty sure we arn't being pig headed, but to all the footy fans who only read the papers and watch the news we look very pig headed.

[stevie]

f*** the cheats. Piece of s*** club. Go Saints

[sainter45]

We are only being pig headed if we are trying to get Carlisle for less than he is worth. It's like buying anything, you set your maximum price, and if someone is prepared to pay more then they get the goods. I will be unhappy if we pay overs, but if we are outbid, then so be it.

[ace]

Club was porridge headed to offer Carlisle $700,000 a year.
Hawthorn has given us a chance to get out of a bad deal.
Continuing to pursue Carlisle now would be pig headed.
Lets get out.

[yipper]

This is an incredibably ridiculous situation that has developed. The Hawks had absolutely no right to stick their beaks in. The young man has chosen us - that is it . It is now incumbent on Ess to deal with the Saints to get this trade completed.
The amount of pressure being applied to the StKilda Fc in this case is almost criminal - by Ess, the media and now the bloody hawks!!
What do the hawks want? to win every premiership each year?? have their own competition?
As someone has pointed out - we have had absolutely no trouble trading with every other club in the AFL except Ess!! All clubs have trouble trading with Ess!!
I am seeing some real balls being shown by our recruiting team here - Trout and Bains have / are playing this beautifully. We are standing up to the "BIG " clubs AND their media mates who are trying to deride, bully, intimidate what they think is a minnow club into submission.
Stick to your guns saints - I think we will all be as proud as punch at what we end up with at the end of this circus.
Trout and Bains and Jamie Cox etc are going to be hailed as master negotiators by the end of this.

[ace]

If we lose him we are going to look like fools. People who can't get the job done. We look indecisive.

Why do we look indecisive and not Essendon being unreasonable?

Carlisle is NOT OURS. We lose nothing if he goes to Hawthorn.
Essendon are desperate to get rid of Carlisle before WADA suspends him for 2 years.

[8856brother]

We are staying strong, Carlisle is committed to getting to St.Kilda and we won't be bullied or railroaded by Essendon or anyone.

It's fine to say the club will stand firm and wont be bullied. I get that, and I believe the club will.

Will Jake and his management though? Will they crumble? Pretty juicy second option they've been offered.

Hopefully the Carlisle camp are on the same page as us. If they came out yesterday and said they were committed to St Kilda I would be more confident. Yes a note came from the club, as it should have, but nothing direct from the Carlisle camp.