Jake Carlisle

[bergholt]

If Carlisle wants to go to Hawthorn then let him go. And he probably should want to, walk into that team with 8+ years left in your career and the world's your oyster. They should be in serious flag contention for at least the next few years, possibly longer. Coming to St Kilda requires more hope and long-term commitment, most people don't have the appetite for that. And while it's more money with us in the short term, I'm sure he'd get enough at Hawthorn and that would come with the promise of bigger pay packets down the road.

As others have said, we don't desperately need him. We certainly don't need to overpay for him. Let him go and start talking about other deals. If everything works out by the end of the trade period then it is what it is.

[bigred]

Not heard a peep outta Hawthorn here. But then again they are generally silent until they get all their ducks in a row.

I still really hope that pick five is off the table. I might be comfortable swapping the pick for a couple of others but you would think that if that was happening, then it would probably have happened by now.

If the Hawks are fair dinkum and Carlisle still holds off I would be astounded and he would be an instant cult hero.

I'd be happy for the club to hold firm here.

[magnifisaint]

So Carlisle says he wants to play for St Kilda.

Question: Can Essendon trade him to another club if he does not agree to it?

no

[prwilkinson]

Until the Carlisle camp change their position St.Kilda should just hold firm. If they stick with the saints and don't 'cush-lash' (Jerry Maguire) the club then pick him up in the Pre Season Draft.

[prwilkinson]

Until the Carlisle camp change their position St.Kilda should just hold firm. If they stick with the saints and don't 'cush-lash' (Jerry Maguire) the club then pick him up in the Pre Season Draft.

Or still try to swap pick 5 with someone else for 2 first rounders. Anyway, should be interesting.

[saintly]

The saints statement almost sounds like it was from the days when lyon was about to leave and his manager came out and said that he was signing the extension yet hecwe to another manager and did a deal with freo.

[Bluthy]

Don't panic Mr Mannering! Could well be a defenders draft this year http://www.theage.com.au/afl/trading-an ... k48zo.html with Weitering possibly even going no. 1

Lots of options if Jake the snake is swooped on by a hawk. Top class mid first pick and then good young key defender with second round who gets a solid year tutelage from Fisher, Dempster and Gilbo. Then we've got Tom Lee smoldering away in defence at Sandy - he might catch fire as a 194cm good marking, good kicking defender and justify his high pick. Acres at 190 will play back a bit as a play reading sweeper I reckon. Then who knows who will get shook out for trade in the next few years. There seems to be a lot more [player movement now and that will probably only increase. As we get better and better many will want to get aboard the ST Kilda juggernaut (sorry Scott)

[lefty]

Don't cave in Saints!

Hawks won't match the $$$ offered by us.
Boy, I'd rather do what the Hawks do, and have a "team" on even cash for the top players, not one or two on the highest dollar.

I don't think Carlisle is that kind of person tbh.
I think he's always been chasing the cash, which is fine, but you better perform.

Anyway, he won't go to Hawks if they're offering significantly less, I don't think he's willing to take less $$$.

All he needs to do is state, "I don't want to play for anyone but St.Kilda".

We will keep pick 5, and pick him up in the pre season draft.

I also hope St.Kilda can find a way to get young Weller across.

[ace]

So Carlisle says he wants to play for St Kilda.

Question: Can Essendon trade him to another club if he does not agree to it?

no

YES
but the other club would be stupid to agree to trade before they are certain he will sign a contract with them.
If he does not sign a contract he can nominate for the drafts.
The other club screams murder.
That is why Hawthorn needs to talk to Carlisle who is on holiday overseas.

The other club would be stupid to agree to a trade without first subjecting the player to medical testing.
Would you accept Essendon's word - we have lost his medical files at least until the WADA appeal is completed but we would like you to believe that everything is O.K.

[magnifisaint]

So Carlisle says he wants to play for St Kilda.

Question: Can Essendon trade him to another club if he does not agree to it?

no

YES
but the other club would be stupid to agree to trade before they are certain he will sign a contract with them.
If he does not sign a contract he can nominate for the drafts.
The other club screams murder.

Why yes?

If he tells E$$endon he only wants to play at St Kilda then the they can't negotiate with anyone but St Kilda

[Griggsy]

So Carlisle says he wants to play for St Kilda.

Question: Can Essendon trade him to another club if he does not agree to it?

no

YES
but the other club would be stupid to agree to trade before they are certain he will sign a contract with them.
If he does not sign a contract he can nominate for the drafts.
The other club screams murder.

Why yes?

If he tells E$$wndon he only wants to play at St Kilda then the they can't negotiate with anyone but St Kilda

The way I thought it went is players don't really have a say in a trade. It's just this sport that likes to be nice to players letting them dictate options. But you would have to question the motives of any club that trades for a player that doesn't want to play for them.

[Mr Magic]

I'm not sure what all the stress is about?
Our List Managers will decide how much we rally want Carlisle and pay accordingly
If he chooses to go elsewhere then it's because the deal costs more than what we're prepared to pay.
No biggie.
We lose nothing
We move on to the next player we're after be that a trade or draft pick.

Plenty of Clubs wanted Judd but he chose Carlton. Does that men all the other clubs he rejected were 'failures'?
It's no different with Carlisle. He apparently chose us over Carlton because our offer was better. If he now is going to accept a lesser offer to go to Hawthorn then so be it. He was never our player so what did we lose?

[dragit]

The answer is no

A player can't be traded to a club without agreeing... And signing a new contract.

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm not sure what all the stress is about?
Our List Managers will decide how much we rally want Carlisle and pay accordingly
If he chooses to go elsewhere then it's because the deal costs more than what we're prepared to pay.
No biggie.
We lose nothing
We move on to the next player we're after be that a trade or draft pick.

Plenty of Clubs wanted Judd but he chose Carlton. Does that men all the other clubs he rejected were 'failures'?
It's no different with Carlisle. He apparently chose us over Carlton because our offer was better. If he now is going to accept a lesser offer to go to Hawthorn then so be it. He was never our player so what did we lose?

Tend to agree. We need to leave emotion out of it. He isnt worth pick 5. Simple as that. We have Goddard and Roberton down back.
We arent all that badly off down there. If we can start winning some bloody clearances maybe the ball wont go down back so bloody often.

Here is Pelchen's take

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... 7570533250

[ace]

So Carlisle says he wants to play for St Kilda.

Question: Can Essendon trade him to another club if he does not agree to it?

no

YES
but the other club would be stupid to agree to trade before they are certain he will sign a contract with them.
If he does not sign a contract he can nominate for the drafts.
The other club screams murder.

Why yes?

If he tells E$$wndon he only wants to play at St Kilda then the they can't negotiate with anyone but St Kilda

You didn't understand Essendon can trade him to any other club. That club lists him as their player but there comes time when uncontracted players are free to nominate for the drafts.
So he can be traded to Hawthorn. Hawthorn lists him. He is delisted if he does not sign a contract. He goes into the drafts.

It is the Luke Ball situation.
Ball said only Collingwood, would not even take calls from other clubs.
No other club would touch him unless he agreed.
He remained a St Kilda player.
He did not sign a contract.
He went into the drafts.

The only difference is if Hawthorn were stupid enough to take him against his will he would be temporarily listed by them.
Hawthorn would then cajole him to sign a contract.
If he hung tough and refused, he would be uncontracted and go into the drafts.

[ace]

Clarkson wants to talk to Carlilse - tell him come to Hawthorn and you will be playing for the 2016 premiership.
You won't get as much money because of Hawthorn's even pay system, but you probably won't get a medallion playing for St Kilda.
How much will I get says Carlisle.
I can't tell you, here talk to our list manager.
If you want the medallion you must fly back to Australia now so we can give you a medical.
If you want the money enjoy your holiday and enjoy St Kilda.

I want a medallion / I want more money - Carlisle chooses.

[St Ick]

I think if Dodoro really wanted to one up St Kilda and send a message, Jake Carlisle would be adequately compensated in the form of a very large paper bag.

Should've known from the start dealing with the injectors would be a hellish ride.

[Hemi Baxter]

We are partly responsible for Essendon's expectations. It was us that agreed to pay Jake Carlisle $700,000 a year. Our value on him, ironically, if he were a free agent, would have seen Essendon receive a first round pick as compensation (pick 5 this year) and would make Carlisle one of the 10-15 most highly paid players in the competition.

[ace]

Last time I looked St Kilda still had the same draft picks.
Picks 5, 24, 42 and 60 which due to free agency compensation becomes 5, 24 ,45, 63.

Nothing much has changed except we have about $700,000 less of our salary cap committed and no risk of losing a player for 2 years to Thymosin Beta 4.

A good outcome.

[ace]

So far we have
NOT given away $700,000 of our salary cap to a player who is not fully committed to our club.
NOT taken on the risk of a player being suspended for 2 years.
NOT lost pick 5 in the draft.
Dodged a bullet.

Why am I feeling so much better today.
Now let's see if we can do some trading to OUR advantage otherwise sit pat.

[Life Long Saint]

We are partly responsible for Essendon's expectations. It was us that agreed to pay Jake Carlisle $700,000 a year. Our value on him, ironically, if he were a free agent, would have seen Essendon receive a first round pick as compensation (pick 5 this year) and would make Carlisle one of the 10-15 most highly paid players in the competition.

The two are not related.
The amount of money to be paid to Carlisle reflects nothing more than what St Kilda can afford to pay him.
He won't be earning anywhere near the same money if he goes to Hawthorn so, by your logic, Carlisle is only worth a late 2nd round pick for the Hawks.

Jake Carlisle is not worth a straight deal with pick 5 regardless of what he is being paid.

[amusingname]

could see something along these lines being worked on:

3 team trade - Saints, Suns, Power

Saints get: pick 10 (port) and pick 29 (port)
Gold Coast get: Pick 5 (saints) and Pick 42 (saints)
Power get: Charlie Dixon and pick 35(suns)

Saints then trade pick 10 and next years 2nd round to Essendon for Jake Carlisle

Trade pick 24 to Collingwood for Freeman

Use pick 29 on Bailey rice.

[longtimesaint]

could see something along these lines being worked on:

3 team trade - Saints, Suns, Power

Saints get: pick 10 (port) and pick 29 (port)
Gold Coast get: Pick 5 (saints) and Pick 42 (saints)
Power get: Charlie Dixon and pick 35(suns)

Saints then trade pick 10 and next years 2nd round to Essendon for Jake Carlisle

Trade pick 24 to Collingwood for Freeman

Use pick 29 on Bailey rice.

This would not be a good deal for StKilda -trading 5 and 42 for 10 and 29 with Gold Coast and Power the winners.

[St Chris]

could see something along these lines being worked on:

3 team trade - Saints, Suns, Power

Saints get: pick 10 (port) and pick 29 (port)
Gold Coast get: Pick 5 (saints) and Pick 42 (saints)
Power get: Charlie Dixon and pick 35(suns)

Saints then trade pick 10 and next years 2nd round to Essendon for Jake Carlisle

Trade pick 24 to Collingwood for Freeman

Use pick 29 on Bailey rice.

Thats a big loss to us. We might as well just give Essendon 5, Collingwood 24 and use next year's 2nd rounder on Rice, and we end up with the exact same result, except we keep 42.

I'm not happy with 5 for Carlisle, or 24 for Freeman. So we lose too much.

You're not Adrian Dodoro are you??

[Grrrrr]

Jed Anderson deal to North completed...