Jake Carlisle

[perfectionist]

Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.

[Ned Stark]

Further to my earlier post, I am confident that whoever goes at pick 5 will be a better player than Carlisle. Mathieson sounds like a taller version of Joel Sellwood. Francis sounds like BJ 2.0 and Parish sounds like an elite line breaking mid with skills. I see JC as a possible bonus if we can get away with it, but we are still very early in our rebuild and can't afford to blow a top 5 pick on a 24 year old, unless it is Dangerfield or Fyfe. Someone mentioned the Trent Croad deal that Freo did. I see parallels if we don't hold our nerve until the very end of trade week.

[BringBackMadDog]

Carlisle was picked at #24. They are not getting him for #5. End of.
We will end up with him anyway, and probably Freeman by the sounds of it.

Nat Fyfe was pick 20, every club in the comp would give pick 1 this year and next to secure him.

[ripplug66]

Further to my earlier post, I am confident that whoever goes at pick 5 will be a better player than Carlisle. Mathieson sounds like a taller version of Joel Sellwood. Francis sounds like BJ 2.0 and Parish sounds like an elite line breaking mid with skills. I see JC as a possible bonus if we can get away with it, but we are still very early in our rebuild and can't afford to blow a top 5 pick on a 24 year old, unless it is Dangerfield or Fyfe. Someone mentioned the Trent Croad deal that Freo did. I see parallels if we don't hold our nerve until the very end of trade week.

If it is pick 5 we will get something back but there is nothing wrong with using pick 5 on a 24 year old. Still could play for nearly 10 years. Most pick 5's probably don't get near ten years.

[White Winmar]

Further to my earlier post, I am confident that whoever goes at pick 5 will be a better player than Carlisle. Mathieson sounds like a taller version of Joel Sellwood. Francis sounds like BJ 2.0 and Parish sounds like an elite line breaking mid with skills. I see JC as a possible bonus if we can get away with it, but we are still very early in our rebuild and can't afford to blow a top 5 pick on a 24 year old, unless it is Dangerfield or Fyfe. Someone mentioned the Trent Croad deal that Freo did. I see parallels if we don't hold our nerve until the very end of trade week.

Good post, Ned. We need to take a medium to long term view with this. I believe we should be going hard on the Carlisle deal, but we can afford to, as it appears we hold all the cards. I think Carlisle would be a great acquisition and a necessary part of our rebuild, especially with Fischer and Dempster nearing the end. The Croad example serves a timely warning of how the high-priced recruit strategy can backfire. It was exciting for the shockers when the deal was done, but big Trent never settled there, didn't deliver on his enormous promise, and eventually found his way home to win a premiership.

Pick five must be seen as a priority and a crucial part of our overall list management strategy. We can't afford to give it away for anything less than a truly elite player, someone who has the potential to be a "franchise" type. Neither Carlisle, nor Freeman is that sort of player. They both have the potential to be very good and are therefore required, but for pick five we would want someone like Treloar. In any event, I like the way we are building. It's shades of 2003, when we were on the cusp of an era that could've, and should've delivered multiple premierships. I've seen 12 Hawthorn premierships. I only need to see one for my beloved saints. Surely, that's not too much to ask, is it?

[samuraisaint]

The last 6 rounds showed that we desperately need another key backman. Those games also exposed us for pace. We probably would've beaten Geelong easily if we had one more key backman and a midfielder capable of breaking liners and delivering with accuracy into our forward line. As it was we only got a draw and five losses, three of them by huge margins, to show for our 'efforts'.

Carlisle only just turned 24 BTW. He will be 24 for the entire 2016 season. Of course, it would be best if we can hold onto our first draft pick, but if we are going to make a play for Freeman as well, and possibly Bailey Rice, I can't see it, much as I would prefer it.

[saintspremiers]

I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.

[longtimesaint]

I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.

I think this has already been done before Carlisle nominated the Saints.

[samuraisaint]

I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.

The WADA investigation is pretty obviously what makes this trade a massive gamble, as nobody knows what evidence they may have - or not have, as the case may be. One thing is for sure though, if that investigation wasn't happening, we wouldn't be in a position to get him at all, so ...

[Bluthy]

Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.

Have you seen a lot of him Perfectionist? I must admit I haven't. If you say his kicking is poor it worries me.

You can see what he is capable of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g8yWdsZT3Y. His kicking looks pretty good there without being startling but of course that doesn't show the screw ups. His marking looks fantastic - thats been a real change in good backlines over the last decade - being able to intercept mark and turn defense into attack. He seems pretty composed when it hits the deck. The s*** going down at Dons has taken a huge toll on all the players so you would expect a drop in performance this year plus the ball going into the dons back half a hella lot. He'd be a big step up from Delaney and you could see him being a good double act with Goddard but I'm just not sure if it justifies the loss of pick 5. We may not get a pick that high for quite a while and its a chance to get an elite talent. The draft is a lotto but one you can win huge from if you get it right.

[ripplug66]

Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.

There are certainly players from our club who would get a game at the Hawks and Carlisle is a pretty good kick. And you can only get what is available. Try being a little positive. If we get the 2 players we want and keep pick 5 its an excellent trading period.

[jaxons]

Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.

Have you seen a lot of him Perfectionist? I must admit I haven't. If you say his kicking is poor it worries me.

You can see what he is capable of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g8yWdsZT3Y. His kicking looks pretty good there without being startling but of course that doesn't show the screw ups. His marking looks fantastic - thats been a real change in good backlines over the last decade - being able to intercept mark and turn defense into attack. He seems pretty composed when it hits the deck. The s*** going down at Dons has taken a huge toll on all the players so you would expect a drop in performance this year plus the ball going into the dons back half a hella lot. He'd be a big step up from Delaney and you could see him being a good double act with Goddard but I'm just not sure if it justifies the loss of pick 5. We may not get a pick that high for quite a while and its a chance to get an elite talent. The draft is a lotto but one you can win huge from if you get it right.

This is ok too if we want to swing him forward from time to time.

[Jacks Back]

Our best recruiting period ever was in the early 60s, and it produced a flag. Our next best recruiting period was in the early part of this century, and it almost produced a flag, although the team that should have won it (2004/05) never made a GF (but led in both the PFs at three quarter time) and the "residual" or "topped up" team made GFs in 09/10 but lacked the skill at crucial moments, as well as the luck. In both of those recruiting periods, skill was the driver of selection. Since 2007, when the "top up" regime was introduced, there has been no clear evidence of any plan. Random picks could not have produced a worse result. We have a team full of "triers" with hardly any skill. There isn't one player in our team who would get a game at Hawthorn, although to be fair, that team is a modern miracle. Jake Carlisle can't kick and I don't only mean for goal. His passes out of the backline have little more than 50% chance of hitting their target. Whilst he is not quite as bad a Sam Gilbert, he is not too far behind. He can take a contested mark but is a poor reader of play. He is too easily led away from the contest. Great backman read the play despite their opponents - think Alex Rance these days. Now that's the sort of player we should have set our sights on - no matter what the cost.

Have you seen a lot of him Perfectionist? I must admit I haven't. If you say his kicking is poor it worries me.

You can see what he is capable of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g8yWdsZT3Y. His kicking looks pretty good there without being startling but of course that doesn't show the screw ups. His marking looks fantastic - thats been a real change in good backlines over the last decade - being able to intercept mark and turn defense into attack. He seems pretty composed when it hits the deck. The s*** going down at Dons has taken a huge toll on all the players so you would expect a drop in performance this year plus the ball going into the dons back half a hella lot. He'd be a big step up from Delaney and you could see him being a good double act with Goddard but I'm just not sure if it justifies the loss of pick 5. We may not get a pick that high for quite a while and its a chance to get an elite talent. The draft is a lotto but one you can win huge from if you get it right.

This is ok too if we want to swing him forward from time to time.

That will give us 3 tall swingmen in Bruce, Goddard & Carlisle. Maybe we should have tried White at full back for a 4th.

[saintsRrising]

I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.

Richo was a coach at EFC with Carlisle...and one of our other coaches coached him in the U18s and so we have two of our coaches with first hand knowledge of Carlisle.

[Wrote for Luck]

Tom Lee is a swinger too. And even Mitch Brown if we were to pick him up.
Jake will look good in a Saints jumper. For me being the club of choice is now very exciting. Wonder how this makes Brendan Goddard feel?

[wasoncestkil58]

Tom Lee is a swinger too. And even Mitch Brown if we were to pick him up.
Jake will look good in a Saints jumper. For me being the club of choice is now very exciting. Wonder how this makes Brendan Goddard feel?

Couldn't care less what Brendan Goddard felt.

[saintspremiers]

I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.

Richo wasa coach at EFC with Carlisle...and one of our othe coaches coached him in the U18s and so we have two of our coaches with first hand knowledge of Carlisle.

That's handy. The info I heard may be a new development - not too sure. Anyway can't go into on here but was from a good source and I'd hope our club is aware of it (if true)

[skeptic]

I just hope we do a FULL and thorough check on Carlisle unlike whoa we did with Lovett.

Richo wasa coach at EFC with Carlisle...and one of our othe coaches coached him in the U18s and so we have two of our coaches with first hand knowledge of Carlisle.

That's handy. The info I heard may be a new development - not too sure. Anyway can't go into on here but was from a good source and I'd hope our club is aware of it (if true)

I like u SP but what a pointless post... U have news that may not be true but u cant share.

[Teflon]

The last 6 rounds showed that we desperately need another key backman. Those games also exposed us for pace. We probably would've beaten Geelong easily if we had one more key backman and a midfielder capable of breaking liners and delivering with accuracy into our forward line. As it was we only got a draw and five losses, three of them by huge margins, to show for our 'efforts'.

Carlisle only just turned 24 BTW. He will be 24 for the entire 2016 season. Of course, it would be best if we can hold onto our first draft pick, but if we are going to make a play for Freeman as well, and possibly Bailey Rice, I can't see it, much as I would prefer it.

we will noyt give up 5 without something coming back our way to ensure the deal is better our way that is according to those with club connections on BF
Pies apparently being reasonable with Freeman and Rice is 3rd rounder so not related
Pick 5 is prime we may not have a pick like this for a little while so better not burn it...

[asiu]

... can't see us 'burning' this years pick 5
nor nexts years pick 5.



(gone early !!!) lol

Discuss.

[supersaints]

I'm starting to ponder wether Carltank and the dopers have done a brown paper bag deal. If dildo does has he states and refuses a downgraded first round pick, then they know we will pass. Thus will allow Carlton to nab him in the pre season but I would expect the blues would do another trade very favorable to Carltank. I did read somewhere that Carltank weregetting four players for one round two draft pick from SOS 's old club.... They may have colluded they have in the past
Or dildos a complete idiot and is just grand standing.

[supersaints]

I'm starting to ponder wether Carltank and the dopers have done a brown paper bag deal. If dildo does has he states and refuses a downgraded first round pick, then they know we will pass. Thus will allow Carlton to nab him in the pre season but I would expect the blues would do another trade very favorable to Carltank. I did read somewhere that Carltank weregetting four players for one round two draft pick from SOS 's old club.... They may have colluded they have in the past
Or dildos a complete idiot and is just grand standing.

[Macs Flooders]

Suggested deal to get Carlisle & Freeman over the line.

* Saints pick five to the Bombers for Carlisle and pick 23
* Pick 23 to Collingwood for Freeman

Wash up is Saints get two players for its pick 5 and keep pick 24 for a selection or for use in another trade. Essendon gets another early pick and Collingwood gets fair compensation for Freeman.

[terry smith rules]

Some here seem to be completely besotted with the green grass that is represented by Carlisle and Freeman

For mine there are so many warning bells with Carlisle

Yes he is big

His disposal efficiency in 2015 was just over 70, compared that to Geary at 77, doesn't that worry you. Don't we want players who can hit targets out of defence?

How many good games has he actually played, games that he taken by the scruff and helped turn, I would say somewhere around 8!!

His body language, is this what we really want at the saints. He never ever seems to be enjoying the game, whether forward or back. Does he look like he inspires?

I may and I am happy to be proven wrong , but I see warning bell after warning bell

[Enrico_Misso]

Some here seem to be completely besotted with the green grass that is represented by Carlisle and Freeman

For mine there are so many warning bells with Carlisle

Yes he is big

His disposal efficiency in 2015 was just over 70, compared that to Geary at 77, doesn't that worry you. Don't we want players who can hit targets out of defence?

How many good games has he actually played, games that he taken by the scruff and helped turn, I would say somewhere around 8!!

His body language, is this what we really want at the saints. He never ever seems to be enjoying the game, whether forward or back. Does he look like he inspires?

I may and I am happy to be proven wrong , but I see warning bell after warning bell

Add the WADA bell to that!