Send your message of condolence to Ross Lyin.

[Scollop]

the only people to blame are the ceos and the admin at the club and the boards over the years

when the club had an opportunity to change the footy structure they didnt and ross was appointed
when ross was given ultimate power he was blamed for everything instead of the board and the ceo
instead of renewing and trading and topping up with class we chose to get rid of bj goddard

i am confident we have the right people in charge and hopefully we learn from our mistakes

[The Fireman]

up ya nose with a rubber hose.

[Bunk_Moreland]

the only people to blame are the ceos and the admin at the club and the boards over the years

when the club had an opportunity to change the footy structure they didnt and ross was appointed
when ross was given ultimate power he was blamed for everything instead of the board and the ceo
instead of renewing and trading and topping up with class we chose to get rid of bj goddard

i am confident we have the right people in charge and hopefully we learn from our mistakes

I dont understand anything you are trying to say on this post?

[The Fireman]

the only people to blame are the ceos and the admin at the club and the boards over the years

when the club had an opportunity to change the footy structure they didnt and ross was appointed
when ross was given ultimate power he was blamed for everything instead of the board and the ceo
instead of renewing and trading and topping up with class we chose to get rid of bj goddard

i am confident we have the right people in charge and hopefully we learn from our mistakes

I dont understand anything you are trying to say on this post?

I'm shaking my head aswell....please elaborate.

[Johnny Member]

Just a question on those who think Freo have a very good side and it was just poor coaching by RL. I think about 4 or 5 would make the Hawks side and about 10 or 12 hawks would make their side. The rest would be interchangeable.

I think this is a silly argument and utterly irrelevant.


The list I posted earlier, shows how many of their list are, or have been All-Australian and/or in the initial AA Squad. That puts them in the top 40 players in the comp.

The individuals listed, are clearly rated whilst under Ross Lyon to be outstanding performers. Outstanding to the point point of being considered in the top 40 or higher in the entire comp.

Based on your hypothetical question, that would surely mean that at some point, each one of them has has the ability and the performance to get a game in any team in the comp.


But of course it doesn't work like that. That's why your question is invalid.

After West Coast smacked Hawthorn a month ago, you'd make a case for half the West Coast team being better than their opponents. Fast forward a month, and the answer would be very different.

When Freo were undefeated and on top, whilst Hawthorn were getting beaten by GWS, I reckon you'd have a very different answer to now also.


Lyon cons the footy world that he has a team of plodders. He's always done it - even back when he was at Sydney they managed to fool everyone that Sydney was a bunch of hacks that were just brilliantly coached. Absolute nonsense.


Lyon's style, as per Roos' style, makes good players seem like average battlers at times, and makes average players reliable and consistent. The second part is something he's exceptional at and a big part of why he's a good coach - the former is what costs him flags and prevents him from being a great coach.

[ripplug66]

Just a question on those who think Freo have a very good side and it was just poor coaching by RL. I think about 4 or 5 would make the Hawks side and about 10 or 12 hawks would make their side. The rest would be interchangeable.

I think this is a silly argument and utterly irrelevant.


The list I posted earlier, shows how many of their list are, or have been All-Australian and/or in the initial AA Squad. That puts them in the top 40 players in the comp.

The individuals listed, are clearly rated whilst under Ross Lyon to be outstanding performers. Outstanding to the point point of being considered in the top 40 or higher in the entire comp.

Based on your hypothetical question, that would surely mean that at some point, each one of them has has the ability and the performance to get a game in any team in the comp.


But of course it doesn't work like that. That's why your question is invalid.

After West Coast smacked Hawthorn a month ago, you'd make a case for half the West Coast team being better than their opponents. Fast forward a month, and the answer would be very different.

When Freo were undefeated and on top, whilst Hawthorn were getting beaten by GWS, I reckon you'd have a very different answer to now also.


Lyon cons the footy world that he has a team of plodders. He's always done it - even back when he was at Sydney they managed to fool everyone that Sydney was a bunch of hacks that were just brilliantly coached. Absolute nonsense.


Lyon's style, as per Roos' style, makes good players seem like average battlers at times, and makes average players reliable and consistent. The second part is something he's exceptional at and a big part of why he's a good coach - the former is what costs him flags and prevents him from being a great coach.

As you said the list you posted showed they were AA or in the squad. The question is now how many would get in the Hawthorn side. Much more relevant than Pav being an AA. That doesn't matter now. It is his form at the moment. And after the WCE you could make a point that more would be from WCE than the Hawks in a combined side I reckon we are smart enough to take the form over a whole season so I think there would be more Hawwks than WCE in a conbined side as there would be many more Hawks than Freo players in a combined side. And I don't think I have ever heard RL suggest he doesn't have the players or plodders as you call them. He just wants more better players like most coaches. And RL style also makes ordinary players seem like good players unless of course you think he has always had about the second or third best list every year in the AFL. I don't but its OK for you to think that. And I'm basing that on form this year not what they have done previously.

[Johnny Member]

So if a guy is capable of being in the best 40 players of the entire comp, but the coach can't get the best out of them, who's fault is that?

[ripplug66]

So if a guy is capable of being in the best 40 players of the entire comp, but the coach can't get the best out of them, who's fault is that?

That would be coaches fault if it was this year or maybe last year and they weren't about 30 years of age. What if Pav was AA 4 years ago and is now 33 years of age. Is that relevant now and is it the coaches fault he has just about run his race?

[samoht]

So if a guy is capable of being in the best 40 players of the entire comp, but the coach can't get the best out of them, who's fault is that?

That would be coaches fault if it was this year or maybe last year and they weren't about 30 years of age. What if Pav was AA 4 years ago and is now 33 years of age. Is that relevant now and is it the coaches fault he has just about run his race?

No excuses!
The Hawks have the oldest list in the AFL - but it's not stopping Clarkson from getting the best out of the "oldies".
Also, Stratton, Puopolo and Hale would struggle to get a game with us - yet they are triple premiership players.

[whiskers3614]

So if a guy is capable of being in the best 40 players of the entire comp, but the coach can't get the best out of them, who's fault is that?

That would be coaches fault if it was this year or maybe last year and they weren't about 30 years of age. What if Pav was AA 4 years ago and is now 33 years of age. Is that relevant now and is it the coaches fault he has just about run his race?

No excuses!
The Hawks have the oldest list in the AFL - but it's not stopping Clarkson from getting the best out of the "oldies".
Also, Stratton, Puopolo and Hale would struggle to get a game with us - yet they are triple premiership players.

Why even compare a coach who is in the Leigh Matthews/Ron Barassi category and may get to Norm Smith level with a much touted maiden performer.
The only recent comparisons for Lyon are Eade and Wallace!

[SainterK]

Fwiw, I think the Ross coach, Fyfe captain will go well

[Scollop]

the only people to blame are the ceos and the admin at the club and the boards over the years

when the club had an opportunity to change the footy structure they didnt and ross was appointed
when ross was given ultimate power he was blamed for everything instead of the board and the ceo
instead of renewing and trading and topping up with class we chose to get rid of bj goddard

i am confident we have the right people in charge and hopefully we learn from our mistakes

I dont understand anything you are trying to say on this post?

I'm shaking my head aswell....please elaborate.

Was replying to bigred. Stating the bleeding obvious but also a commentary on our failed strategy and that most of the blame should be pointed to the board and ceos for letting Lyon recruit duds. Then we let Watters recruit Maister/Tom Lee and the smalls in Millera/Saad/TDL. Compare that lost opportunity with the young players that were being developed by the Cats post 2009 and the Hawks who topped up with classy ball users.

That 2009/2010 period was such a waste (not for the players efforts) but just when you look at the rejects that Lyon chased - and the club rubberstamped - and the opportunity that we lost as a club to capitilise on our time at the top and recruit and develop our own.

[saynta]

So if a guy is capable of being in the best 40 players of the entire comp, but the coach can't get the best out of them, who's fault is that?

Obviously the coach. He coaches all the flair and creativity out of them with his dull boring antiquated game plan that doesn't allow his players to kick a winning score in the games that count.

As a coach he is not fit to tie clarko's boot laces.

[Scollop]

Lots of people in our club lost their focus when he was at St Kilda. Look what happened to us in 2011. Everyone believed Rossy could do no wrong. For 2 years running everyone including the media said Rossy wasn't the main reason we lost those Grand Finals. Rossy was a brilliant coach yadda yadda yadda. Why then did our players lose all hope in 2011 while he was still there?

You can't coach magic and some players will never lose it no matter who is coaching them. Gilbert McAdam and Nicky Winmar were unbelievable and as freakish as Cyril I reckon. They played instinctively. Milney was also a freak in 2010 and 2011 when the game needed to be won he just found a way to kick impossible goals but if the supply isn't there it doesn't matter.

If your gameplan is centred around containment and restricting your opponent instead of outscoring them with aggressive attack you're bound to lose in the most fierce battle when your opponent basically knows your weakness. You need a coach who values goals and goal assists more than he values blocks and tackles. It's like a fighter who just defends all day and tries to stop you, basically hoping that you'll keep missing and eventually you'll tire.

No matter who they bring in they'll fall short when it comes to finals if he is their coach. Unfortunately for him I think the players can't keep believing when you can't get the job done Rossy. Maybe Lyon will change parts of his game plan and maybe they'll get better as a team if they get Harley Bennell, but I can't see him adapting or evolving into a different person. He just can't quite elevate himself. Jack Dyer would've called him a good ordinary coach. If he stays in coaching long enough his stats might also better reflect his status in the game