Has Ross Lyon Backed Another Winner?

[damienc]

Today I am feeling mightily provocative.

I feel like having a go at Ross Lyon. Sort of.

Fremantle is now the club of choice for prodigiously talented and equally troubled Harley Bennell.

I am sure they are optimistically thinking that he would be/could be the difference between winning and losing should the Dockers find their way to a Preliminary Final in season 2016.

In that they may be right or not. You see it is the 'or not part' that really interests me.

The bloke is trouble with a capital T. Lyon of course thought a certain Andrew Lovett would make a difference to the Saints and he probably would have had he played.

Now before anyone gets their knickers in a twist you can't compare the two cases. All I am saying is that they have two things in common. Prodigious talent and a talent for getting themselves into trouble.

A lot of clubs looked at Bennell, the Saints included, but then dropped him cold. The latest club was Richmond who had a big hard on for him.

He has meetings with Hardwick and Martin and then the rumours start flying. Bennell failed to attend a mandatory medical. Why would he do that? Ostensibly taking the advice of his manager.

His failure to attend the medical of course gives rise to all sorts of speculation given Bennell's past history with drugs and alcohol.

Fremantle, it would appear are the only AFL club interested in recruiting Bennell. Ross Lyon does not have a good history in taking punts on players.

Bennell could be a superstar or the biggest mistake the Dockers will make.

Two sentences spring to mind: Watch this space and Buyer beware. I now think we made the right call not to go near him.

[ripplug66]

Worth the risk.

[Armoooo]

If I were in RL's position it would be a punt I would take every single time.

[Goose is king]

Worth the risk. I'm not blaming the club for not showing more interest but I would like to know why we didn't pursue him.
Obviously the off field stuff but do they think our leaders couldn't control him?
Anyway. Worth the risk

[sunsaint]

it is interesting - R Lyon HAS a perceived reputation that he will (and) can shape the really wayward ones
He had B Cousins in a stkilda jumper and all but playing for us until the board stepped in
He had A Lovett in a stiklda jumper and all but playing for us until Lovett stepped in (the poo)
I cant think of too many "bad boys" he has ACTUALLY shaped - cover ups and living in the bubble only works for a while

As for Bennell - his suitors have been dropping off very quickly
Yes I would love to have his talent at the saints - but he may be better suited at clubs that can "afford" to cover his loss if it goes pear shape - is Hawthorn / Freo

[SaintPav]

Not our problem.

[saynta]

Worth the risk. I'm not blaming the club for not showing more interest but I would like to know why we didn't pursue him.
Obviously the off field stuff but do they think our leaders couldn't control him?
Anyway. Worth the risk

16 other AFL clubs beg to differ.

[SainterK]

Think you're being harsh.

Took a risk with Colin and....

Oh.

[mr six o'clock]

Worth the risk.

Yes

and they could get him cheap
Richmond were keen until he was ten hours late for the meeting they were to have . so maybe freo are the last one interested and harley's realised that he should of saved some coke (allegedly) for a rainy day .

[Bluthy]

He was notoriously on the front page of papers around the country. By all accounts he was taking it hard, realising his lucrative AFL career hung by a thread and knew just how serious it all was. Then maybe 2 months later, he's picking a fight with a bouncer. Right. At that point you're talking about a guy who literally can't control himself. Doesn't bode well.

[saintspremiers]

Not our problem.

It's a massive problem if he comes good and Freo somehow won the flag next year.

Saintsational would become a cyber version of Chernobyl.

[Spinner]

Obsessed.

Need to get over the hate. He wouldn't have been able to walk had we not insisted on a clause to terminate his contract with 3 months severance.

Anyways you should be happy he's not our coach anymore... Funnily enough though, it doesn't sound like it. Continues to generate a lot of bitterness!

[Goose is king]

[quote="saynta"][quote="Goose is king"]Worth the risk. I'm not blaming the club for not showing more interest but I would like to know why we didn't pursue him.
Obviously the off field stuff but do they think our leaders couldn't control him?
Anyway. Worth the risk[/quote]

16 other AFL clubs beg to differ.[/quote]


So is Carlisle no good because only Saints, Blues and Dogs want him?

[Scollop]

Obsessed.

Need to get over the hate. He wouldn't have been able to walk had we not insisted on a clause to terminate his contract with 3 months severance.

Anyways you should be happy he's not our coach anymore... Funnily enough though, it doesn't sound like it. Continues to generate a lot of bitterness!

No one is displaying hate. You just made it up perhaps because you think we shouldda kept him. Do you think we wouldda won another McLelland trophy with Rossy at the helm?

[saintspremiers]

Obsessed.

Need to get over the hate. He wouldn't have been able to walk had we not insisted on a clause to terminate his contract with 3 months severance.

Anyways you should be happy he's not our coach anymore... Funnily enough though, it doesn't sound like it. Continues to generate a lot of bitterness!

No one is displaying hate. You just made it up perhaps because you think we shouldda kept him. Do you think we wouldda won another McLelland trophy with Rossy at the helm?

I was. I hate his guts as do many on here.

But you are correct. He's a multiple minor premiership winner.

[saynta]

Worth the risk. I'm not blaming the club for not showing more interest but I would like to know why we didn't pursue him.
Obviously the off field stuff but do they think our leaders couldn't control him?
Anyway. Worth the risk

16 other AFL clubs beg to differ.

So is Carlisle no good because only Saints, Blues and Dogs want him?

He's a risk most clubs were not prepared to take, obviously.

[gringo]

Heard someone say on the radio that Freo is one of the few clubs that could probably handle him. Ross is a strong mentor on a personal level and gives his players a lot of guidance. He's the kind of guy that if they get him right he's top 10 players in the comp type. They don't come along every day and it might mean the difference between a premiership or another PF failure. He still gets criticised for not drafting Cousins, he should totally draft him if it looks like he's willing to work for his career.

[GrumpyOne]

Freo only has a limited window of opportunity to take out the big prize.

Bennell, if the gamble pays off, might just make that difference between 2nd and 1st.

It is a punt by Lyon knowing that his list only has another year in it before it falls down the ladder.

This is something he has tried at least three times before: Cousins, Lovett, Sylvia.

He wasn't successful before, probably won't be again.

But Lyon is a gambler, as can be seen from the fate of his investments when he was with us.

[Zed]

I'm glad we stayed away from HB. Our club unfortunately gets slammed in the mediawhen even the slightest sniff of a negative story might be around no matter how fabricated it may be ( eg schoolgirl fiasco). Lovett still gets branded an exSt Kilda player for goodness sake when he never even pulled the jumper on. Contrast to ex- hawk Garlett who gets labelled 'talented junior footballer' but never ex-hawk. If he were a Saint would that be the same ?

We aren't in the flag window right now so a player with scandal Potential would only hurt sponsorship and membership. When your club is on the cusp - that's the time to be brave.

[skeptic]

People have kind of missed the point here...

Lovett was a crap pick because we paid way overs for him. If we got him for say a second round pick, then took Fyfe with the pick we had... Even with what happened its not so bad.

Does anyone care that Hawthorn took that Indigenous player with the chequered history, whose name i don't remember, with a later pick?


If Lyon pressures them to say get him by trading away their first round pick and a really good player or 2, that's when u can start drawing comparisons

[SaintPav]

Does anyone care that Hawthorn took that Indigenous player with the chequered history, whose name i don't remember, with a later pick?

Serious?

How many senior games games had Dayle Garlett played?

Lovett was a match winner and we were DESPERATE for outside run to take a hold of that slippery premiership cup.

You're not comparing apples with apples.

Unfair compassion and with respect Skeptic, not one of your best posts.

[Wayne42]

Heard someone say on the radio that Freo is one of the few clubs that could probably handle him. Ross is a strong mentor on a personal level and gives his players a lot of guidance. He's the kind of guy that if they get him right he's top 10 players in the comp type. They don't come along every day and it might mean the difference between a premiership or another PF failure. He still gets criticised for not drafting Cousins, he should totally draft him if it looks like he's willing to work for his career.

He won't make a big enough difference to Freo if he's not a consistent goal kicker.

[skeptic]

Does anyone care that Hawthorn took that Indigenous player with the chequered history, whose name i don't remember, with a later pick?

Serious?

How many senior games games had Dayle Garlett played?

Lovett was a match winner and we were DESPERATE for outside run to take a hold of that slippery premiership cup.

You're not comparing apples with apples.

Unfair compassion and with respect Skeptic, not one of your best posts.

Fair enough but i didn't mean it to be an even comparison... The focus isn't the players it's the cost.

I agree with you in that Lovett was exactly what we needed and i was glad we got him but we paid WAAAAAAY overs. That's why that deal was so horrendous.
My point about Gartlett (thanks for naming him BTW) is that it doesn't look as bad as because their assessment of the risk was better and they used an appropriate ranged pick for him

The more i read your post Pav, the more i think you haven't understood.

Using this in the context of the argument... Harley Bennall is as you say exactly the type of player Freo need... A match winner and potentially their missing ingredient.

Is he worth the risk? The answer is, until we get a sense of what the offer/deal is we don't know.


Second Rounder? Massive unders, you'd be insane not to take the punt
First Rounder? Assuming we're looking around 16 (as Freo) or so... I would take that deal
First Rounder in the top 5... Maybe but im not loving it
First Rounder and a good player? Suddenly the risk of Bennall is potentially outweighing the rewards

I think my post is pretty reasonable to be honest Pav.

May I ask, what do you think he's worth in terms of trade value and money?
What would you give up for him from the Saints, and Freo too?

[SaintPav]

Does anyone care that Hawthorn took that Indigenous player with the chequered history, whose name i don't remember, with a later pick?

Serious?

How many senior games games had Dayle Garlett played?

Lovett was a match winner and we were DESPERATE for outside run to take a hold of that slippery premiership cup.

You're not comparing apples with apples.

Unfair compassion and with respect Skeptic, not one of your best posts.

Fair enough but i didn't mean it to be an even comparison... The focus isn't the players it's the cost.

I agree with you in that Lovett was exactly what we needed and i was glad we got him but we paid WAAAAAAY overs. That's why that deal was so horrendous.
My point about Gartlett (thanks for naming him BTW) is that it doesn't look as bad as because their assessment of the risk was better and they used an appropriate ranged pick for him

The more i read your post Pav, the more i think you haven't understood.

Using this in the context of the argument... Harley Bennall is as you say exactly the type of player Freo need... A match winner and potentially their missing ingredient.

Is he worth the risk? The answer is, until we get a sense of what the offer/deal is we don't know.


Second Rounder? Massive unders, you'd be insane not to take the punt
First Rounder? Assuming we're looking around 16 (as Freo) or so... I would take that deal
First Rounder in the top 5... Maybe but im not loving it
First Rounder and a good player? Suddenly the risk of Bennall is potentially outweighing the rewards

I think my post is pretty reasonable to be honest Pav.

May I ask, what do you think he's worth in terms of trade value and money?
What would you give up for him from the Saints, and Freo too?

NI what HB is worth but he's not for us.

GC will want more than pick 16 though.

[skeptic]

So by that logic i think it's fair to say that they will have to give up a bit to get him... This is where the risk kicks in.

Do other people have an opinion on this?

The questions are:
a) what is a realistic offer Fremantle could make to get HB?
b) for comparisons sake, see question a but sub in St.Kilda for Freo?