Send your message of condolence to Ross Lyin.

[Enrico_Misso]

Pavlich
Sandilands (AA last year)
Mundy (AA this year)
Barlow
Hill (AA Squad this year)
Neale (AA Squad this year)
McPharlin (AA 2012)
Ballantyne(AA last year)
Fyfe (AA this year)
Walters (2013 AA Squad)
Mayne (2013 AA Squad)
Johnson (2013 AA)
Ibbotson (AA Squad this year)
Crowley
Pearce




I mean fair dinkum, how many top shelf players do you need before the 'poor Ross has had to deal with weak lists' myth is put to bed?

Apart from Pav, Sandilands and Fyfe, hardly a bunch of superstars.

They've all been voted by the experts as being in the top 40 players or higher in the comp over a 3 year period. How much better than that do you want??

5 of them are GORN.
That puts a big hole in it.
Particularly with Ro$$'s list management skills.

[asiu]

I'd argue that the attacking flair and nous was coached out of us.

That was 'n still would be my arguement as well.
... footballers turned into robots.

[Johnny Member]

@Thomo_Grant: It's embarrassing watching Roos vindicating Dockers style & putting it down to bad luck. 5 major finals (4GF's) scoring 52-68pts. Get real.

I love his use of selective statistics. What's a major final? Any Grand Final plus any other final I want to add to make the numbers look worse.

Lyon teams also scored 88 and 99 points in Prelim Finals.

I think this sums up Lyon though.

We kicked 88 in a prelim - and our GF opponent kicked over 100 in both of their finals.

We, thanks to our game plan and thanks to Lyon's coaching - freakishly managed to restrict them to 68 points on GF Day. 68 points!!

And guess what? It still wasn't enough to win!

Think about that for a minute. Restricting the top team, whom had kicked over 100 points in both their finals - to 68 points in the GF.
If you were told before the game, that we'd hold Collingwood to only 68 points, you'd lock in the win. I mean seriously, how low a score do you actually have to restrict the opposition to in order to freakin' win??


Ditto against Hawthorn. They'd kicked over 100 points in both finals - and Lyon restricts them to only 77 on GF Day. And yet, it's still not enough.


It's a glaring problem. It was glaring after what happened in 09, and it's exactly the same problem still.

[magnifisaint]

Hi Ross, Can you please come and coach my team. We haven't won a grand final in a long time and we are hoping you can change that. Any chance?

[spert]

Freo's forward line didn't work very well against the Hawks, and in our GF losses, our forward system got beaten in the end, and I think that is the problem with RL- he values the disciplined defensive approach which has no margin of error, but also restricts the natural attacking game of some players. Sometimes a few unusual moves/ risks on the run comes off- playing players out of position etc, just gives you that little edge in a Grand Final where every advantage must be taken, and Lyon has never looked beyond his system and will never win an AFL premiership.

[Johnny Member]

Hi Ross, Can you please come and coach my team. We haven't won a grand final in a long time and we are hoping you can change that. Any chance?

Based on history, no.

[kosifantutti]

@Thomo_Grant: It's embarrassing watching Roos vindicating Dockers style & putting it down to bad luck. 5 major finals (4GF's) scoring 52-68pts. Get real.

I love his use of selective statistics. What's a major final? Any Grand Final plus any other final I want to add to make the numbers look worse.

Lyon teams also scored 88 and 99 points in Prelim Finals.

I think this sums up Lyon though.

We kicked 88 in a prelim - and our GF opponent kicked over 100 in both of their finals.

We, thanks to our game plan and thanks to Lyon's coaching - freakishly managed to restrict them to 68 points on GF Day. 68 points!!

And guess what? It still wasn't enough to win!

Think about that for a minute. Restricting the top team, whom had kicked over 100 points in both their finals - to 68 points in the GF.
If you were told before the game, that we'd hold Collingwood to only 68 points, you'd lock in the win. I mean seriously, how low a score do you actually have to restrict the opposition to in order to freakin' win??


Ditto against Hawthorn. They'd kicked over 100 points in both finals - and Lyon restricts them to only 77 on GF Day. And yet, it's still not enough.


It's a glaring problem. It was glaring after what happened in 09, and it's exactly the same problem still.

Well finals are usually low scoring affairs and funnily enough the team that scores least loses.

Without looking it up, what do you think the average losing score is in finals for Hawthorn under Clarkson? 90? 80? 70? It's 67 points. One more point than Lyon's average in losing finals.

I don't think Lyon's problem in finals is lack of attacking.

[Johnny Member]

@Thomo_Grant: It's embarrassing watching Roos vindicating Dockers style & putting it down to bad luck. 5 major finals (4GF's) scoring 52-68pts. Get real.

I love his use of selective statistics. What's a major final? Any Grand Final plus any other final I want to add to make the numbers look worse.

Lyon teams also scored 88 and 99 points in Prelim Finals.

I think this sums up Lyon though.

We kicked 88 in a prelim - and our GF opponent kicked over 100 in both of their finals.

We, thanks to our game plan and thanks to Lyon's coaching - freakishly managed to restrict them to 68 points on GF Day. 68 points!!

And guess what? It still wasn't enough to win!

Think about that for a minute. Restricting the top team, whom had kicked over 100 points in both their finals - to 68 points in the GF.
If you were told before the game, that we'd hold Collingwood to only 68 points, you'd lock in the win. I mean seriously, how low a score do you actually have to restrict the opposition to in order to freakin' win??


Ditto against Hawthorn. They'd kicked over 100 points in both finals - and Lyon restricts them to only 77 on GF Day. And yet, it's still not enough.


It's a glaring problem. It was glaring after what happened in 09, and it's exactly the same problem still.

Well finals are usually low scoring affairs and funnily enough the team that scores least loses.

Without looking it up, what do you think the average losing score is in finals for Hawthorn under Clarkson? 90? 80? 70? It's 67 points. One more point than Lyon's average in losing finals.

I don't think Lyon's problem in finals is lack of attacking.

But that's exactly the point.

No one wins when scoring that low!

It's the winning score in finals that is the problem! I don't think any team would expect to win when scoring only 67 points in a final. Problem is, Lyon's teams do it all the time then everyone scratches their heads as to how they lost.

[freely]

Personally, I hate him - but setting that aside...

You'd think he would've been embarrassed listening to Nat Fyfe accepting the Brownlow when he said he'd 'live and die' for the Fremantle footy club. And old Rossy, what can he say? It's a job. I've got to put myself first. He'd have happily played that boy till his leg fell off if he thought it would have got them through to the final. Oh, excuse me - he practically did!

[ripplug66]

Personally, I hate him - but setting that aside...

You'd think he would've been embarrassed listening to Nat Fyfe accepting the Brownlow when he said he'd 'live and die' for the Fremantle footy club. And old Rossy, what can he say? It's a job. I've got to put myself first. He'd have happily played that boy till his leg fell off if he thought it would have got them through to the final. Oh, excuse me - he practically did!

Firstly it wouldn't have been RL decision to play him and secondly Fyffe would have wanted to play and thirdly he was still in their best 4 players and fourthly more and more people say its just a job especially coaches. That post is tough on him. And gods know why you would hate him. But if that is what you need to do then go for it.

[kosifantutti]

Personally, I hate him - but setting that aside...

You'd think he would've been embarrassed listening to Nat Fyfe accepting the Brownlow when he said he'd 'live and die' for the Fremantle footy club. And old Rossy, what can he say? It's a job. I've got to put myself first. He'd have happily played that boy till his leg fell off if he thought it would have got them through to the final. Oh, excuse me - he practically did!

I'm pretty sure Goddard said similar things about St Kilda.

[Griggsy]

Personally, I hate him - but setting that aside...

You'd think he would've been embarrassed listening to Nat Fyfe accepting the Brownlow when he said he'd 'live and die' for the Fremantle footy club. And old Rossy, what can he say? It's a job. I've got to put myself first. He'd have happily played that boy till his leg fell off if he thought it would have got them through to the final. Oh, excuse me - he practically did!

Firstly it wouldn't have been RL decision to play him and secondly Fyffe would have wanted to play and thirdly he was still in their best 4 players and fourthly more and more people say its just a job especially coaches. That post is tough on him. And gods know why you would hate him. But if that is what you need to do then go for it.

It would of been his decision to pull him out with the sub or not. He was quite visibly in pain after the knock with Frawley.

[SainterK]

He believes injured players are capable of roles.

Roo, torn adductor
Eddy, broken draw
Kosi, broken rib
Baker, broken foot

[ripplug66]

Personally, I hate him - but setting that aside...

You'd think he would've been embarrassed listening to Nat Fyfe accepting the Brownlow when he said he'd 'live and die' for the Fremantle footy club. And old Rossy, what can he say? It's a job. I've got to put myself first. He'd have happily played that boy till his leg fell off if he thought it would have got them through to the final. Oh, excuse me - he practically did!

Firstly it wouldn't have been RL decision to play him and secondly Fyffe would have wanted to play and thirdly he was still in their best 4 players and fourthly more and more people say its just a job especially coaches. That post is tough on him. And gods know why you would hate him. But if that is what you need to do then go for it.

It would of been his decision to pull him out with the sub or not. He was quite visibly in pain after the knock with Frawley.

He was and he was still nearly their best player. They wouldn't have won if he was then made sub and I'm unsure its totally his decision anyway. They have doctors and also the player to listen to. Just a question on those who think Freo have a very good side and it was just poor coaching by RL. I think about 4 or 5 would make the Hawks side and about 10 or 12 hawks would make their side. The rest would be interchangeable.

[Bluthy]

Poor old Rossy. To be devils advocate, but for some damn bad luck (bounce of the ball, goal that hit the post) he should have at least one flag, if not two. He's come up against two teams in grannies that might have been juicing up, lost a grannie and a prelim by not much to a team many are saying is the greatest of all time. This is a game where the difference between timeless glory and being an-also-ran is literally inches. And poor Rossy has just fell on the other side of that line each time. But his grinding style of game is always playing with fire by not putting teams away.

I heard he gave one of his players who screwed a hug after the game. And he said something like "we win together, we lose together" which seemed a change of tack from him. Maybe this this is the beginning of a new Ross. The best coaches evolve. Ross needs to stay at Freo and learn to nurture young talent not just treat players like meat chess players. Coaches have to be like a dad to players, to help the players develop the inner confidence to take the game on when the heat is at its fiercest. He's got the tactical ability but he needs to develop more faith in his players. The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. This could be the humbling moment he needs to change and let his players of the hook a bit and take the game on more. As you say Ross - defeat is feedback and you've got a hella lot of feedback over the last few years.

[Wayne42]

Unless Ross' record with recruiting and list management changes he will always be a bridesmaid, he knows his forward line sucks, he and his club just can't recruit the players necessary
to fix the problem.
They don't develop the ones they do recruit into players capable of filling those roles either.

This free agency, trade and draft period will be of huge interest, not just with how The Saints perform, i will be watching how Freo go in trying to cover their weaknesses.

Also look at Tanner Smith, when we were crying out for a Key Defender some years ago the club had it's eyes on Smith, Freo selected him, he has flopped.

Is it him or Ross and his poor player development record.

[ripplug66]

Unless Ross' record with recruiting and list management changes he will always be a bridesmaid, he knows his forward line sucks, he and his club just can't recruit the players necessary
to fix the problem.
They don't develop the ones they do recruit into players capable of filling those roles either.

This free agency, trade and draft period will be of huge interest, not just with how The Saints perform, i will be watching how Freo go in trying to cover their weaknesses.

Also look at Tanner Smith, when we were crying out for a Key Defender some years ago the club had it's eyes on Smith, Freo selected him, he has flopped.

Is it him or Ross and his poor player development record.

When did clubs give coaches list management and recruiting responsibilities in the last 5 years? I doubt any coach is really responsible for that.

[Wayne42]

Unless Ross' record with recruiting and list management changes he will always be a bridesmaid, he knows his forward line sucks, he and his club just can't recruit the players necessary
to fix the problem.
They don't develop the ones they do recruit into players capable of filling those roles either.

This free agency, trade and draft period will be of huge interest, not just with how The Saints perform, i will be watching how Freo go in trying to cover their weaknesses.

Also look at Tanner Smith, when we were crying out for a Key Defender some years ago the club had it's eyes on Smith, Freo selected him, he has flopped.

Is it him or Ross and his poor player development record.

When did clubs give coaches list management and recruiting responsibilities in the last 5 years? I doubt any coach is really responsible for that.

A little ignorant to think they have no involvement

[saintspremiers]

Unless Ross' record with recruiting and list management changes he will always be a bridesmaid, he knows his forward line sucks, he and his club just can't recruit the players necessary
to fix the problem.
They don't develop the ones they do recruit into players capable of filling those roles either.

This free agency, trade and draft period will be of huge interest, not just with how The Saints perform, i will be watching how Freo go in trying to cover their weaknesses.

Also look at Tanner Smith, when we were crying out for a Key Defender some years ago the club had it's eyes on Smith, Freo selected him, he has flopped.

Is it him or Ross and his poor player development record.

When did clubs give coaches list management and recruiting responsibilities in the last 5 years? I doubt any coach is really responsible for that.

A little ignorant to think they have no involvement

Agree.

[asiu]

... and here u are tag teaming.

Watch OUT .... Simons ABOUT.

... he did say he'd step on the 'instigator'.

[magnifisaint]

He'd be the premiership coach had the Dockers got past Hawthorn in the prelim.

[skeptic]

Dreaming... WCE would have had them covered easily IMO

Freo wouldn't have been able to hurt them early and if they did, they wouldn't have been able to put them away and WCE would have sliced through their zones and run all over them

[magnifisaint]

Dreaming... WCE would have had them covered easily IMO

Freo wouldn't have been able to hurt them early and if they did, they wouldn't have been able to put them away and WCE would have sliced through their zones and run all over them

I don't think so. I reckon they would have choked West Coast out of the Grand Final. Would have been crap to watch

[bigred]

He'd be the premiership coach had the Dockers got past Hawthorn in the prelim.

He'd be a premiership coach if he'd got past Geelong in '09 and the Filth in '10.

And there would be a good chance he would still be coaching St Kilda.

[bigred]

I fkn blame Ross Lyon for Scott Watters.