Bye all

[saintspremiers]

lol
still bitter armoooo.

got showed up for also being a flog of a mod
'n still blaming me for it.

Whatever.

#putyourbuttplugsout

#itsnotmardigrasgazrat

[Sobraz]

Utter disgrace.

Cannot believe so many people let something so menial bother them so much.

We really do live the good life.

Never bought into the discussion about the forum dying etc, but if this is an indication of the direction, I think it's already dead.

There should be a poll on whether P66 should survive.

#standbyplugger66

[Teflon]

Poor decision and unfair. I would suggest the mods take a breath. This is not their forum. This is our forum - all of us - plugger was one of family. Sure he has probably crossed paths with most of us at one time or another but so what - we're discussing sport for gawds sake. If people get so upset over opposing views or occasional tit for tats on the internet they seriously need to evaluate themselves and learn some bloody resilience. or simpler yet - use the ignore function. he was not a troll - no one would claim that. he was no more abusive than others, and less abusive than many.
Read what posters are saying and think about. a permanent ban? seriously?

+ 1

1. It is not a ban.

2. It is a member deactivation and can be reactivated. Not that I intend to do so.

3. All 50,000+ past posts exist.

4. He constantly breaches the rules - as volunteer modeartors and administrators HE is wasting OUR time as we have to deal with reports and complaints and then his abuse.

5. He has had ample warnings to change his style. he refused.

Enough is enough. I have warned Plugger66 numerous times that this will be the outcome if he did not reform his ways.

Perhaps I should have really permanently banned him and removed his posts. May still do so.

As it stands he is free to continue posting WITHIN the rules but only under another new NIC entity.

That is more than reasonable outcome for someone that has refused to follow the forum guidelines.

As for the forum dying because one argumentative poster NIC has been deactivated ... might happen. Might not.

The good thing is that it is post season now ... ALL footy forums slow down (even Big Footy) ... so hopefully we can recover next footy season after this massive loss of a NIC.

Finally - the forum members do have a say - BUT the forum does not belong to them. The period of voluntary donations to help pay for the hosting costs went years ago and the forum costs are paid privately and the forum remains the property of the original owner. He has the right to shut it down whenever he wants to. He keeps it open for others to enjoy and entrusts me to administer it. Some may feel i do a horrible job BUT I do it so that forum can be enjoyed by ALL and not an elite select few posters.

I for one am wrapt that mods are doing the job they ought to - the site doesn't and never has belonged to "superstar individuals " - you don't come here to listen to posters like Plugger tell everyone "their wrong" all the time and constantly comment on others views ..... You come here to talk all things St Kilda. You can disagree but there's a way to do that without hijacking threads.
Take a bow mods and ignore the "site will die" hysterics - it won't as long as we have the passion to talk football about our mighty club.

[asiu]

thanx for quoting it peabrain.
... now the mods edit is sorta useless ... good work.

Damien does the tech stuff.
Simon does the Save / Sink the Site stuff.
... surely you've figured that out by now

[Dis Believer]

Poor decision and unfair. I would suggest the mods take a breath. This is not their forum. This is our forum - all of us - plugger was one of family. Sure he has probably crossed paths with most of us at one time or another but so what - we're discussing sport for gawds sake. If people get so upset over opposing views or occasional tit for tats on the internet they seriously need to evaluate themselves and learn some bloody resilience. or simpler yet - use the ignore function. he was not a troll - no one would claim that. he was no more abusive than others, and less abusive than many.
Read what posters are saying and think about. a permanent ban? seriously?

+ 1

1. It is not a ban.

2. It is a member deactivation and can be reactivated. Not that I intend to do so.

3. All 50,000+ past posts exist.

4. He constantly breaches the rules - as volunteer modeartors and administrators HE is wasting OUR time as we have to deal with reports and complaints and then his abuse.

5. He has had ample warnings to change his style. he refused.

Enough is enough. I have warned Plugger66 numerous times that this will be the outcome if he did not reform his ways.

Perhaps I should have really permanently banned him and removed his posts. May still do so.

As it stands he is free to continue posting WITHIN the rules but only under another new NIC entity.

That is more than reasonable outcome for someone that has refused to follow the forum guidelines.

As for the forum dying because one argumentative poster NIC has been deactivated ... might happen. Might not.

The good thing is that it is post season now ... ALL footy forums slow down (even Big Footy) ... so hopefully we can recover next footy season after this massive loss of a NIC.

Finally - the forum members do have a say - BUT the forum does not belong to them. The period of voluntary donations to help pay for the hosting costs went years ago and the forum costs are paid privately and the forum remains the property of the original owner. He has the right to shut it down whenever he wants to. He keeps it open for others to enjoy and entrusts me to administer it. Some may feel i do a horrible job BUT I do it so that forum can be enjoyed by ALL and not an elite select few posters.

I for one am wrapt that mods are doing the job they ought to - the site doesn't and never has belonged to "superstar individuals " - you don't come here to listen to posters like Plugger tell everyone "their wrong" all the time and constantly comment on others views ..... You come here to talk all things St Kilda. You can disagree but there's a way to do that without hijacking threads.
Take a bow mods and ignore the "site will die" hysterics - it won't as long as we have the passion to talk football about our mighty club.

hahahaha, success by suction..............

[BackFromUSA]

Simon,
Why does Saintsational - the owner of this site - pay for it yet has no involvement?
Makes no sense at all
Have you offered to take control and pay for the hosting costs?
If so, you can do as you please.
It seems weird.
You effectively are the CEO of the site and are empowered by someone who isn't interested in it anymore. That's fine, but why doesn't he just hand it all over to you?
What's in it for him ?

The original owner has a professional conflict of interest and could not (and I believe still cannnot) be involved and he has stepped away for that reason.

He has empowered me to run the site 2.5 years ago as HE intended it to be. I do not want ownership of the site.

He has however helped me fix some of the technical issues that I inherited from previous admins ... just stuff that needed to be updated and i don't have the tech knowledge.

There is NOTHING in it for him.

So it remains open only for us all.

Despite numerous protests that this site is dying the reality is that the activity numbers are UP in each of the past 2 seasons despite (or maybe because) we have been poor on-field. I know Plugger66 contributed to those numbers in terms of posts BUT the actual average daily readers (registered and non registered) and actual posters went up.

The funding of the site is no longer through voluntary donations from users. It is being privately funded, as it was when it was first established.

It was only ever funded by donations because I didnt think it was fair (over 10 years ago) for his dad to have to pay for his teen son's hobby and our enjoyment.

WHO is funding it is not of importance.

However - the site is being administered by me with an eye on what members want NOT just what a vocal minority want.

I have opened every change to prior discussion AND even in this case i have willingly left open plugger66's post AND subsequent posts / polls rather than move them to the admin forum where they actually belong as to encourage opinions etc - good and bad - and we shall see what comes of all that ... but importantly I am willing to interact.

Some changes have been mistakes BUT were the will of the majority.

Some changes have been changed back.

I have always listened and acted when appropriate.

[Con Gorozidis]

Simon,
Why does Saintsational - the owner of this site - pay for it yet has no involvement?
Makes no sense at all
Have you offered to take control and pay for the hosting costs?
If so, you can do as you please.
It seems weird.
You effectively are the CEO of the site and are empowered by someone who isn't interested in it anymore. That's fine, but why doesn't he just hand it all over to you?
What's in it for him ?

The original owner has a professional conflict of interest and could not (and I believe still cannnot) be involved and he has stepped away for that reason.

He has empowered me to run the site 2.5 years ago as HE intended it to be. I do not want ownership of the site.

He has however helped me fix some of the technical issues that I inherited from previous admins ... just stuff that needed to be updated and i don't have the tech knowledge.

There is NOTHING in it for him.

So it remains open only for us all.

Despite numerous protests that this site is dying the reality is that the activity numbers are UP in each of the past 2 seasons despite (or maybe because) we have been poor on-field. I know Plugger66 contributed to those numbers in terms of posts BUT the actual average daily readers (registered and non registered) and actual posters went up.

The funding of the site is no longer through voluntary donations from users. It is being privately funded, as it was when it was first established.

It was only ever funded by donations because I didnt think it was fair for his dad to have to pay for his teen son's hobby and our enjoyment.

WHO is funding it is not of importance.

However - the site is being administered by me with an eye on what members want NOT just what a vocal minority want.

I have opened every change to prior discussion AND even in this case i have willingly left open plugger66's post AND subsequent posts / polls rather than move them to the admin forum where they actually belong as to encourage opinions etc - good and bad - and we shall see what comes of all that ... but importantly I am willing to interact.

Some changes have been mistakes BUT were the will of the majority.

Some changes have been changed back.

I have always listened and acted when appropriate.

So his day job is web master for Bigfooty?

[BackFromUSA]

Simon,
Why does Saintsational - the owner of this site - pay for it yet has no involvement?
Makes no sense at all
Have you offered to take control and pay for the hosting costs?
If so, you can do as you please.
It seems weird.
You effectively are the CEO of the site and are empowered by someone who isn't interested in it anymore. That's fine, but why doesn't he just hand it all over to you?
What's in it for him ?

The original owner has a professional conflict of interest and could not (and I believe still cannnot) be involved and he has stepped away for that reason.

He has empowered me to run the site 2.5 years ago as HE intended it to be. I do not want ownership of the site.

He has however helped me fix some of the technical issues that I inherited from previous admins ... just stuff that needed to be updated and i don't have the tech knowledge.

There is NOTHING in it for him.

So it remains open only for us all.

Despite numerous protests that this site is dying the reality is that the activity numbers are UP in each of the past 2 seasons despite (or maybe because) we have been poor on-field. I know Plugger66 contributed to those numbers in terms of posts BUT the actual average daily readers (registered and non registered) and actual posters went up.

The funding of the site is no longer through voluntary donations from users. It is being privately funded, as it was when it was first established.

It was only ever funded by donations because I didnt think it was fair for his dad to have to pay for his teen son's hobby and our enjoyment.

WHO is funding it is not of importance.

However - the site is being administered by me with an eye on what members want NOT just what a vocal minority want.

I have opened every change to prior discussion AND even in this case i have willingly left open plugger66's post AND subsequent posts / polls rather than move them to the admin forum where they actually belong as to encourage opinions etc - good and bad - and we shall see what comes of all that ... but importantly I am willing to interact.

Some changes have been mistakes BUT were the will of the majority.

Some changes have been changed back.

I have always listened and acted when appropriate.

So his day job is web master for Bigfooty?

A tad more important than that ... but not that far off. Not hard to figure out if you have been a long time poster and can use google and look him up on linkedin.

[Jacks Back]

So we get rid of the Saints man but keep the Carlton TROLL who virtually is always off topic? Good one!

[evo]

Poor decision and unfair. I would suggest the mods take a breath. This is not their forum. This is our forum - all of us - plugger was one of family. Sure he has probably crossed paths with most of us at one time or another but so what - we're discussing sport for gawds sake. If people get so upset over opposing views or occasional tit for tats on the internet they seriously need to evaluate themselves and learn some bloody resilience. or simpler yet - use the ignore function. he was not a troll - no one would claim that. he was no more abusive than others, and less abusive than many.
Read what posters are saying and think about. a permanent ban? seriously?

+ 1

1. It is not a ban.

2. It is a member deactivation and can be reactivated. Not that I intend to do so.

3. All 50,000+ past posts exist.

4. He constantly breaches the rules - as volunteer modeartors and administrators HE is wasting OUR time as we have to deal with reports and complaints and then his abuse.

5. He has had ample warnings to change his style. he refused.

Enough is enough. I have warned Plugger66 numerous times that this will be the outcome if he did not reform his ways.

Perhaps I should have really permanently banned him and removed his posts. May still do so.

As it stands he is free to continue posting WITHIN the rules but only under another new NIC entity.

That is more than reasonable outcome for someone that has refused to follow the forum guidelines.

As for the forum dying because one argumentative poster NIC has been deactivated ... might happen. Might not.

The good thing is that it is post season now ... ALL footy forums slow down (even Big Footy) ... so hopefully we can recover next footy season after this massive loss of a NIC.

Finally - the forum members do have a say - BUT the forum does not belong to them. The period of voluntary donations to help pay for the hosting costs went years ago and the forum costs are paid privately and the forum remains the property of the original owner. He has the right to shut it down whenever he wants to. He keeps it open for others to enjoy and entrusts me to administer it. Some may feel i do a horrible job BUT I do it so that forum can be enjoyed by ALL and not an elite select few posters.

I for one am wrapt that mods are doing the job they ought to - the site doesn't and never has belonged to "superstar individuals " - you don't come here to listen to posters like Plugger tell everyone "their wrong" all the time and constantly comment on others views ..... You come here to talk all things St Kilda. You can disagree but there's a way to do that without hijacking threads.
Take a bow mods and ignore the "site will die" hysterics - it won't as long as we have the passion to talk football about our mighty club.

hahahaha, success by suction..............

[saintspremiers]

Why is who is funding the site a secret?

It's relevant IMO.

Don't need the name of the person just a general idea.

Money talks Simon

[BackFromUSA]

Why is who is funding the site a secret?

It's relevant IMO.

Don't need the name of the person just a general idea.

Money talks Simon

Why is it relevant?

Would they have more of a valid view point than the majority?

I would hope that the majority of opinion rules - after taking into consideration Damien's wishes for the nature of the site.

[desertsaint]

Simon you may think this forum is private - it's not. it lives and dies based on it's members - always has.
It seems that you have effected a ban of one of it's longtime contributors - a person who is much more a saints man than you or i, i would warrant - based on your personal opinion of him and how you want this site to be. well when in a community it isn't about ideas, it's about people - we are all different. we think and behave differently.
i have read the thread and yes it's the usual plugger clogging it up, but he doesn't get abusive, annoying certainly, but he is just being plugger. certainly the person he was bantering with wasn't that perturbed - it was a footy discussion after all. heck if you were speaker of the house parliament would be empty.
we all know how he operates. some have him on ignore - good on them, it's there for exactly that reason. some can't abide him, others accept him, some tolerate him, some like him. no one thinks he is deliberately disrupting the forum. and if people are so petty they can't abide criticism of their opinion then why bloody post it on a footy forum!
there was no warning. you criticised him. he criticised you back. you banned him on the spot. no warning. when was his last warning?

"I am sick of dealing with you.

I have a choice. As administrator here I can decide to delete you permanently based on many of your past 50 posts alone as they breach the rule regarding ongoing conflict.

This forum will be better without you IMHO."

in your honest opinion. yours.
an opinion formed over time, but one that means you are biased in deciding fair punishment. a decision taken on the spot and in anger. you have other mods - a fair man would remove himself from this decision and let them make it. or better yet let the community discuss and decide. pluggers long history here deserves more consideration.

[6621104]

I am on here regularly in season, post occasionally and come for insights that , as an interstate supporter, I cannot access locally. I enjoy the banter and the jokes but P66 had become more irritant than interesting. Shame.

[BackFromUSA]

Simon you may think this forum is private - it's not. it lives and dies based on it's members - always has.
It seems that you have effected a ban of one of it's longtime contributors - a person who is much more a saints man than you or i, i would warrant - based on your personal opinion of him and how you want this site to be. well when in a community it isn't about ideas, it's about people - we are all different. we think and behave differently.
i have read the thread and yes it's the usual plugger clogging it up, but he doesn't get abusive, annoying certainly, but he is just being plugger. certainly the person he was bantering with wasn't that perturbed - it was a footy discussion after all. heck if you were speaker of the house parliament would be empty.
we all know how he operates. some have him on ignore - good on them, it's there for exactly that reason. some can't abide him, others accept him, some tolerate him, some like him. no one thinks he is deliberately disrupting the forum. and if people are so petty they can't abide criticism of their opinion then why bloody post it on a footy forum!
there was no warning. you criticised him. he criticised you back. you banned him on the spot. no warning. when was his last warning?

"I am sick of dealing with you.

I have a choice. As administrator here I can decide to delete you permanently based on many of your past 50 posts alone as they breach the rule regarding ongoing conflict.

This forum will be better without you IMHO."

in your honest opinion. yours.
an opinion formed over time, but one that means you are biased in deciding fair punishment. a decision taken on the spot and in anger. you have other mods - a fair man would remove himself from this decision and let them make it. or better yet let the community discuss and decide. pluggers long history here deserves more consideration.

Plugger66 has had numerous PMs on an ongoing basis besides the official warnings AND 2 bans - all over the same style of posting.

In the last PM a few weeks ago, I was very clear that if it continued that this would happened. I coped the usual abuse back via PM.

He had plenty of warning to change his ways. He left open 3 ways that I could act this way through his own actions.

Even he knew that his goose was cooked when we started our exchange today. Look at the timeline ... he knew he had well and truly gone past his final warning.

The problem was he CONTINUALLY AND DELIBERATELY FAILED to abide by this clear rule:

Vigorous debate and friendly banter on St. Kilda Football Club matters is encouraged, as long as there is respect for each other’s opinions. No matter how much you disagree, or dismiss the worth of any opinion posted, or dismiss the worth of the poster in your eyes, your response must be respectful. Argue the facts. Post an opposing opinion. Do NOT make commentary about the poster - ONLY the post. If you tease, mock or bait another poster, or abuse them, OR repeatedly revisit past disagreements causing or creating an ongoing dispute between one or more posters, this is regarded as a breach of rules in the Fan Forum and will result in the issuing of a Saintsational warning. Such ongoing disputes can result in multiple breaches and can result in multiple Saintsational warnings.

[elizabethr]

P66 is a huge negative force.
Good Riddance!

[skeptic]

The numbers are showing a clear preference for this outcome

P.S. You cop a lot of flak BFUSA but i think you've done a great job since you've taken over.

#NEWWORLDORDER

[avid]

I think he's been very disruptive and annoying in the past.
But over the last few months I think he's been pretty good actually.
Maybe he stopped baiting people at every turn, or maybe people stopped reacting to him.
P66 fundamentally has an interesting and useful role in our 'community' -- he's a sceptic on one-eyed opinion.
I've always enjoyed that part of his contribution. He can also be quite funny.
Several months ago, P66's disappearance would have come as a welcome relief. Not now though.

[Teflon]

Poor decision and unfair. I would suggest the mods take a breath. This is not their forum. This is our forum - all of us - plugger was one of family. Sure he has probably crossed paths with most of us at one time or another but so what - we're discussing sport for gawds sake. If people get so upset over opposing views or occasional tit for tats on the internet they seriously need to evaluate themselves and learn some bloody resilience. or simpler yet - use the ignore function. he was not a troll - no one would claim that. he was no more abusive than others, and less abusive than many.
Read what posters are saying and think about. a permanent ban? seriously?

+ 1

1. It is not a ban.

2. It is a member deactivation and can be reactivated. Not that I intend to do so.

3. All 50,000+ past posts exist.

4. He constantly breaches the rules - as volunteer modeartors and administrators HE is wasting OUR time as we have to deal with reports and complaints and then his abuse.

5. He has had ample warnings to change his style. he refused.

Enough is enough. I have warned Plugger66 numerous times that this will be the outcome if he did not reform his ways.

Perhaps I should have really permanently banned him and removed his posts. May still do so.

As it stands he is free to continue posting WITHIN the rules but only under another new NIC entity.

That is more than reasonable outcome for someone that has refused to follow the forum guidelines.

As for the forum dying because one argumentative poster NIC has been deactivated ... might happen. Might not.

The good thing is that it is post season now ... ALL footy forums slow down (even Big Footy) ... so hopefully we can recover next footy season after this massive loss of a NIC.

Finally - the forum members do have a say - BUT the forum does not belong to them. The period of voluntary donations to help pay for the hosting costs went years ago and the forum costs are paid privately and the forum remains the property of the original owner. He has the right to shut it down whenever he wants to. He keeps it open for others to enjoy and entrusts me to administer it. Some may feel i do a horrible job BUT I do it so that forum can be enjoyed by ALL and not an elite select few posters.

I for one am wrapt that mods are doing the job they ought to - the site doesn't and never has belonged to "superstar individuals " - you don't come here to listen to posters like Plugger tell everyone "their wrong" all the time and constantly comment on others views ..... You come here to talk all things St Kilda. You can disagree but there's a way to do that without hijacking threads.
Take a bow mods and ignore the "site will die" hysterics - it won't as long as we have the passion to talk football about our mighty club.

hahahaha, success by suction..............

Call me Mr Pyne

[bergholt]

I am on here regularly in season, post occasionally and come for insights that , as an interstate supporter, I cannot access locally. I enjoy the banter and the jokes but P66 had become more irritant than interesting. Shame.

Unfortunately I completely agree. The guy added a lot to the forum over many years and I appreciated that. But fundamentally he got too annoying. His "dog with a bone" posting style polluted threads with useless posts and created a negative environment for new people. He had disproportionate and negative influence over the tenor of the discussion here. Asking him to leave is the right call.

[Devilhead]

I agree with everyone's opinion on this thread except for the OPs ..... Just for old times sake

[quidnunc]

Now I've got no-one on my IGNORE list!

[saintspremiers]

Why is who is funding the site a secret?

It's relevant IMO.

Don't need the name of the person just a general idea.

Money talks Simon

Why is it relevant?

Would they have more of a valid view point than the majority?

I would hope that the majority of opinion rules - after taking into consideration Damien's wishes for the nature of the site.

Because as I said money talks.

And why is it such a big secret?

As I said, I'm not amazing for names just a general direction.

You are deliberately being vague for some reason.

Transparency is what we are all after.

[maverick]

Simon you may think this forum is private - it's not. it lives and dies based on it's members - always has.
It seems that you have effected a ban of one of it's longtime contributors - a person who is much more a saints man than you or i, i would warrant - based on your personal opinion of him and how you want this site to be. well when in a community it isn't about ideas, it's about people - we are all different. we think and behave differently.
i have read the thread and yes it's the usual plugger clogging it up, but he doesn't get abusive, annoying certainly, but he is just being plugger. certainly the person he was bantering with wasn't that perturbed - it was a footy discussion after all. heck if you were speaker of the house parliament would be empty.
we all know how he operates. some have him on ignore - good on them, it's there for exactly that reason. some can't abide him, others accept him, some tolerate him, some like him. no one thinks he is deliberately disrupting the forum. and if people are so petty they can't abide criticism of their opinion then why bloody post it on a footy forum!
there was no warning. you criticised him. he criticised you back. you banned him on the spot. no warning. when was his last warning?

"I am sick of dealing with you.

I have a choice. As administrator here I can decide to delete you permanently based on many of your past 50 posts alone as they breach the rule regarding ongoing conflict.

This forum will be better without you IMHO."

in your honest opinion. yours.
an opinion formed over time, but one that means you are biased in deciding fair punishment. a decision taken on the spot and in anger. you have other mods - a fair man would remove himself from this decision and let them make it. or better yet let the community discuss and decide. pluggers long history here deserves more consideration.

Agree 100% well said.

[HitTheBoundary]

BFUSA's original changes to the general forum were made in the middle of the night with no consultation.
As were many of his other changes.
So his above claims are bollocks, IMHO.

He just does what he wants. And quotes rules selectively, "I know the owner" blah blah.

Kosi and St. Byron are fair.

Killing off the most prolific poster as you head into the off season doesn't make sense.
All those whinging about p66 only had to put him on ignore.