Is history repeating itself

[Saint wagga]

I'm lucky that life took me down to Melbourne in the early 2000's and I fell in love with Footy having grown up on a diet of rugby league and union and having a bit of a disdainful opinion of aussie rules...but I saw the light and within 2 years was hooked, enjoyong both playing and watching all levels of footy. The young and exciting saints team drew me to support them with a host of young guns, some gun vets and the G Train of course my instant favourite!! The run of 10 straight wins at the start of 2004 was awesome and Grant Thomas's coaching was novel and good for a headline...The obvious success of the next close to a decade was fantastic, and I enjoyed those salad days a lot!! The last 3 years in particular have been a battle, I dont pretend to hurt as much as rusted on vet supporters who had been through those barren years, but the wheel is turning for sure, i think everyone will agree with that...

What I'm interested in, is the comparison with the rebuild and emergence of a powerhouse team like that era of the early 2000's onwards...

I know the footy landscape has changed a lot in the last 15 years with no more compo pics, free agency etc...I understand all that...

BUt what i'm more interested in, is the way the list evolved and took shape over say a 5 years period...was there enourmous turnover of the fringe players and rookie lists etc...were there guys that showed the classic upward trend from humble beginngs, where there guys that started brightly then injury or form or whatever meant they feel away...I'm interested to hear opinions on saints fans who have been through this whole cycle before and can give insight into the evolution of the list.

Look forward to hearing opinions, i'm sure it's an era that many remember fondly!

[st_Trav_ofWA]

in my opinion there are a lot of similarity's between then and now...
back then we had a coach (blight) who we were all gaga over until we found out the stories of how he operated and howthat wasn't what we needed or wanted (same thing with Watters)
we then went with a more father figure coach who was initially reluctant to take on the role (GT and now Richo)
the list was young raw and dynamic we copped some hidings and relied on the older guys to play out of their skins to get rare victories - we had a raft of fill in players who played a role for us in the short term while we developed (think Delaney, Mitchell or in this era Maister and TDL)
we had a long list of kids we had high hopes for some made it others didn't we got some good trades into the club again some made it some didn't

so in essence there is a lot that seems the same

[Indigo Wolf]

Having a huge interest in history in general. I think it's safe to say that it is bound to happen eventually. And I do agree, the footy scene has changed quite a bit but bigger things have stayed and will stay for a long time. You got to expect more of the same thing, unless something drastic changes.

[Superboot]

As part of the previous rebuild, we acquired Roo, Kos, Dal, Ball, and BJ

No sure that we are scaling those heights at the moment, although Hugh Goddard may finish in that class.

[Superboot]

As part of the previous rebuild, we acquired Roo, Kos, Dal, Ball, and BJ

No sure that we are scaling those heights at the moment, although Hugh Goddard may finish in that class.

Not to mention, the incomparable G-Train

[st_Trav_ofWA]

its still early but I see Goddard being our Roo - Paddy being our Kosi - Billings being or Dal - Dunstan being our Ball - and Acres being our BJ
obviously not positionally or in the same style but in regards to the impact on the team

I also see Bruce being our G train - a backman moved forward who has a cult like status ......

[Saint wagga]

its still early but I see Goddard being our Roo - Paddy being our Kosi - Billings being or Dal - Dunstan being our Ball - and Acres being our BJ
obviously not positionally or in the same style but in regards to the impact on the team

I also see Bruce being our G train - a backman moved forward who has a cult like status ......

I like the comparisons st Trav, and i hope they all come through to be A grade talent...but ia am curious about the evolution of the lower rungs of the squad, was there huge turnover...I notice on here, everyone has their favs, young guys they want to succeed for no other reason than they like the look of them etc...for me it's guys like Curren, Minch, Eli, Wright, Webster, Newnes, all the reecent draftees...guys we picked as 18y.o and have developed...i'd love all of them to come through and be 200+ gamers...I realise that probaly only 1 in 4 will get there if that across the journey...

I love seeing the young boys sing the song with gusto when we win...I see a real bond being forged there...was it the same back then? could you see the chemistry developing, the tightness...

[st_Trav_ofWA]

it was back in the early 2000's that the young guys made a pact to make their own history and I think it was GT's real strong points to empower these young boys to be like that - I dunno if this generation think or act the same way as kids did in the early 2000's cause the world is different and priorities change but I think provided we keep the core of the group together they will develop together and that would be to our benefit

[borderbarry]

In the early 2000's we had one old bloke who had been with us since 16yr old, and would go on to create a games record that will take a lot to beat. God knows how many games he would have played without so many lost through injuries. It still hurts to see him in Collingwood colours.

We also had champions like Burke and Loewe, future champions like Hayes and Reiwoldt. Now we just have Reiwoldt.

[Saints94]

I can see it OP..

Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Webster, Lonie, Sinclair, Goddard, Ross, Newnes, Roberton, Weller, Hickey, Longer, Wright, Bruce etc

they are the future.

we need outside mids, of the Jack McCrae ilk IMO

another KPD would be handy to go along with Goddard & Delaney

[matrix]

i hope history doesnt repeat itself

i couldnt take another 09 and 10 again

[st_Trav_ofWA]

In the early 2000's we had one old bloke who had been with us since 16yr old, and would go on to create a games record that will take a lot to beat. God knows how many games he would have played without so many lost through injuries. It still hurts to see him in Collingwood colours.

We also had champions like Burke and Loewe, future champions like Hayes and Reiwoldt. Now we just have Reiwoldt.

if you want to look at it this way ... in the 2000's we had the big names Loewe Burke Harvey with a support cast of Thompson Jones Peckett Maxy who taught the kids the ropes one by one they made their way out of the team leaving their knowledge and experience on the young guys coming up... this new group have the big names in the Riewoldt, Lenny, Joey with the support cast of Fisher Schnider Dempster Jones who like the generation before them one by one will make their way out of the team hopefully parting onto the young guys their knowledge and experience....

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i hope history doesnt repeat itself

i couldnt take another 09 and 10 again

a bit of luck would be helpful this time around ....

[Armoooo]

i hope history doesnt repeat itself

i couldnt take another 09 and 10 again

a bit of luck would be helpful this time around ....

I hope we have learned our lesson this time, we need to keep acquiring solid young players on the way up the ladder.

Last time around we went to topping up too quickly, not realising that guys like Maguire, X, Ball and Kosi would be curtailed by injuries.

We need to to take two picks in the top 30 every year. I am not opposed to trading our first round pick if a good deal comes along but we need to get back up the draft order somehow.

I think between Hickey, Steven, Savage, Dunstan, Acres, Geary, Billings, Newnes, Roberton, Longer, Armo, Bruce, Membrey, Webster, Goddard, McCartin, Lonie, Weller and Sinclair we have a really rock solid base.

To win a flag by 2018-2020 we need to have a quality list that runs at least 30 players deep. Not all of those players are going to become good enough players to be in top four sides so realistically we need about 15 odd players coming through and we need at least 3 of those to be A grade mids.

We might get a couple of players already on the list go to the required level, players like Savage or McKenzie. We might be able to pick a couple of free agents but the bulk will need to come from the draft.

Our top 6 going into our next era are unlikely to match the class of our top six in 09-10 so we need to strengthen players from 15-30.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I do agree with you there Armoo that the draft holds the key to success but your comment on our top six of this era compared with the top six just gone is a subjective thing ... back in 2000 you would have thought that the top six in our 97 g/f team the likes of Loewe, Burke, Winmar, Harvey, Jones and Hall would be impossible to replace with a bunch of kids like Roo Kosi Joey Dal Lenny and BJ but they did ... this next crop of kids right now might look a long way off those 6 at their peak but who can tell what these guys can become at their peak ...

[saynta]

In the early 2000's we had one old bloke who had been with us since 16yr old, and would go on to create a games record that will take a lot to beat. God knows how many games he would have played without so many lost through injuries. It still hurts to see him in Collingwood colours.

We also had champions like Burke and Loewe, future champions like Hayes and Reiwoldt. Now we just have Reiwoldt.

And cuz. Never forget cuz.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

In the early 2000's we had one old bloke who had been with us since 16yr old, and would go on to create a games record that will take a lot to beat. God knows how many games he would have played without so many lost through injuries. It still hurts to see him in Collingwood colours.

We also had champions like Burke and Loewe, future champions like Hayes and Reiwoldt. Now we just have Reiwoldt.

And cuz. Never forget cuz.

Winmar retired in 99... he left us in 98 none of the last crop of players played a game with Winmar .... Lenny only got to the club in 99

[Armoooo]

I do agree with you there Armoo that the draft holds the key to success but your comment on our top six of this era compared with the top six just gone is a subjective thing ... back in 2000 you would have thought that the top six in our 97 g/f team the likes of Loewe, Burke, Winmar, Harvey, Jones and Hall would be impossible to replace with a bunch of kids like Roo Kosi Joey Dal Lenny and BJ but they did ... this next crop of kids right now might look a long way off those 6 at their peak but who can tell what these guys can become at their peak ...

Yeah fair enough call, I suppose Riewoldt would probably be the only one I would feel comfortable saying we won't be able to top.

Point remains the same, you need 30 serious players to win a flag, we can't try to get by with 20 like last time.

[saynta]

In the early 2000's we had one old bloke who had been with us since 16yr old, and would go on to create a games record that will take a lot to beat. God knows how many games he would have played without so many lost through injuries. It still hurts to see him in Collingwood colours.

We also had champions like Burke and Loewe, future champions like Hayes and Reiwoldt. Now we just have Reiwoldt.

if you want to look at it this way ... in the 2000's we had the big names Loewe Burke Harvey with a support cast of Thompson Jones Peckett Maxy who taught the kids the ropes one by one they made their way out of the team leaving their knowledge and experience on the young guys coming up... this new group have the big names in the Riewoldt, Lenny, Joey with the support cast of Fisher Schnider Dempster Jones who like the generation before them one by one will make their way out of the team hopefully parting onto the young guys their knowledge and experience....

And none of Burke, Loewe. Harvey, Peckett, Maxie, Thommo and their team mates learn't a thing of cuz? Give a break.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

And none of Burke, Loewe. Harvey, Peckett, Maxie, Thommo and their team mates learn't a thing of cuz? Give a break.

Nicky came to the saints in 1987
Loewe came in 86
Burke in 87
Harvey 88
Peckett maxie and thommo came in the 90's so ok ill give you Nicky may have been a mentor to those three (but I actually doubt it as Nicky was coming to grips with his own issues around that time) but Loewe Burke and Harves were peers of Nicky not mentored by him ...
but to go to the original topic not one of the 2009/10 team ever played alongside Nicky so he would not have been a factor in their specific development

[saynta]

And none of Burke, Loewe. Harvey, Peckett, Maxie, Thommo and their team mates learn't a thing of cuz? Give a break.

Nicky came to the saints in 1987
Loewe came in 86
Burke in 87
Harvey 88
Peckett maxie and thommo came in the 90's so ok ill give you Nicky may have been a mentor to those three (but I actually doubt it as Nicky was coming to grips with his own issues around that time) but Loewe Burke and Harves were peers of Nicky not mentored by him ...
but to go to the original topic not one of the 2009/10 team ever played alongside Nicky so he would not have been a factor in their specific development

I never meant that anyway.He was certainly a factor in developing players in our past ever if he had problems of his own. Why do you feel the need to denigrate him?

[st_Trav_ofWA]

by your reasoning we can thank Baldock for Roo being the player he is cause Roo learnt from Loewe who learnt from Plugger who learnt from Barker who learnt from George Young who learnt from Cowboy who learnt from Doc ........

[Armoooo]

by your reasoning we can thank Baldock for Roo being the player he is cause Roo learnt from Loewe who learnt from Plugger who learnt from Barker who learnt from George Young who learnt from Cowboy who learnt from Doc ........

Mate you're just digging a deeper whole for yourself.

You need to remember that this is a saints forum, how dare you denigrate Winmar by suggesting he left St Kilda in '98 and then you have the audacity to suggest that he retired in '99... Disgusting

[st_Trav_ofWA]

And none of Burke, Loewe. Harvey, Peckett, Maxie, Thommo and their team mates learn't a thing of cuz? Give a break.

Nicky came to the saints in 1987
Loewe came in 86
Burke in 87
Harvey 88
Peckett maxie and thommo came in the 90's so ok ill give you Nicky may have been a mentor to those three (but I actually doubt it as Nicky was coming to grips with his own issues around that time) but Loewe Burke and Harves were peers of Nicky not mentored by him ...
but to go to the original topic not one of the 2009/10 team ever played alongside Nicky so he would not have been a factor in their specific development

I never meant that anyway.He was certainly a factor in developing players in our past ever if he had problems of his own. Why do you feel the need to denigrate him?

hahahahaha oh you are so comical .... denigrate him hahahahaha

time for a lie down old timer...

[st_Trav_ofWA]

by your reasoning we can thank Baldock for Roo being the player he is cause Roo learnt from Loewe who learnt from Plugger who learnt from Barker who learnt from George Young who learnt from Cowboy who learnt from Doc ........

Mate you're just digging a deeper whole for yourself.

You need to remember that this is a saints forum, how dare you denigrate Winmar by suggesting he left St Kilda in '98 and then you have the audacity to suggest that he retired in '99... Disgusting

sorry Armoooooo I get straight to writing a letter of apology to the club CEO for denigrating Winmar of course he was a great of the early 2000's saints team even if he was out of the state at the time