Round 22 Adam Goodes

[Austinnn]

The righteous always have a righteous viewpoint. That's why they are righteous. They are normally wrong though.
Really cool to hear how you knew Robbie Hunter, Ruby and Archie. That's just a buzz for the forum. Who woulda thought...
Everyone's indigenous now, If you are 1% indigenous you can strut about and play the minority card. Did wonders for ATSIC...are you friends with Geoff Clarke?

Percentages don't exist in the Australian Indigenous world. No matter what your skin colour is, it's what is in your heart that counts. One either identifies or not.

Percentages belong to the slave trade, and should have died out with it.

“I will state flatly that the bulk of this country’s white population impresses me, and has so impressed me for a very long time, as being beyond any conceivable hope of moral rehabilitation. They have been white, if I may so put it, too long. They have been married to the lie of white supremacy too long. The effect in their personalities, their lives, their very grasp of realty, has been as devastating as the lava which so memorably immobilized the citizens of Pompeii. They are unable to conceive that their version of reality, which they want me to accept, is an insult to my history, a parody of theirs and an intolerable violation of myself.”

— James Baldwin

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/04/ ... -disorder/

Isn't it remarkable that to base sweeping, deeply insulting, generalisations of white people on nothing more than the colour of their skin is perfectly acceptable, but do the exact same thing to black people is the height of racism !!

Yeah, its pretty remarkable.

Y'know what I find REALLY remarkable? You get a horse to plough a field; no problem. You get a 12-year old child to do the same job, you get locked up. I mean, they're both living creatures, right?

Context is a pretty convenient thing to overlook.

[bigcarlosis]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

[The Fireman]

I support the boo

[stjay]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

[satchmo]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

I don't see that the post you quoted says anything like that.

[Austinnn]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

You can say the same about anyone who tries to change things. There was division before, just no one talked about it.

You or someone else was saying before what you are sick of: well what I'm sick of is people expecting to be exempt from society's standards when they attend sporting events or participate in public discussion on sporting competitions.

I am also sick of reactionaries 'fighting back' against some imaginary elite mind control and painting themselves as individuals just because they disagree with other people. I wonder if they were so bold and contradictory in bygone eras, or is it just when the general consensus disagrees with their personal views. Painting oneself as a victim is just what these people are angry at Goodes at doing buy they're quick enough to do it themselves.

[Dis Believer]

Isn't it remarkable that to base sweeping, deeply insulting, generalisations of white people on nothing more than the colour of their skin is perfectly acceptable, but do the exact same thing to black people is the height of racism !!

Yeah, its pretty remarkable.

Y'know what I find REALLY remarkable? You get a horse to plough a field; no problem. You get a 12-year old child to do the same job, you get locked up. I mean, they're both living creatures, right?

Context is a pretty convenient thing to overlook.[/quote]

Right - so deeply insulting sweeping generalisations about white people are OK, because of context ?? What context , the context of them being white?? You get worse every time you hit the keyboard. You're effectively saying racism is OK, as long as it's directed at an acceptable group, no?

The essence of the absence of racism is when all people are treated equally, with respect. It does not mean it's OK to accept a lower standard of treatment towards one group because another group was once treated worse.

[#gosaintas]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

So stupid

[The Fireman]

I don't want to resort to name calling but I really feel the need to say this and am prepared for any wrath from the mods but
I've come to the conclusion that stjay is either unintelligent or simply a sh*t stirrer...i'm going with both.

[stjay]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

I don't see that the post you quoted says anything like that.

The "day of seperation" was where Goodes called out racial abuse coming over the fence, right?
And that led to the polarized opinion which he caused, right?
If both those statements are true then explain the difference between what Goodes did, in the totality of his actions, and what Nicky Winmar did.
Happy for anyone to highlight the qualitative difference and be wrong about it.

[stjay]

I don't want to resort to name calling but I really feel the need to say this and am prepared for any wrath from the mods but
I've come to the conclusion that stjay is either unintelligent or simply a sh*t stirrer...i'm going with both.

Get over it pal, everyone's moved on except you.

[Freebird]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

So stupid

Understatement

[stjay]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

So stupid

Understatement

And for those chirping from the sidelines....
Put your big boy pants on and explain exactly where my logic is wrong.
Or is the confidence game all you got?
Pathetic.

[plugger66]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

So stupid

Understatement

And for those chirping from the sidelines....
Put your big boy pants on and explain exactly where my logic is wrong.
Or is the confidence game all you got?
Pathetic.

I wouldn't worry. History shows exactly how they think.

[gringo]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

Sides have been taken but I think if his legacy is one where there is a bit of thought on how we treat people its not a bad thing. People used to tease the southern europeans but someone stood up to it and let people know it was offensive. It was largely stopped and I doubt anyone thinks that's bad. I doubt anyone is completely changed but I think some people have stopped doing something pretty pathetic if Geelong was anything to go by.

[satchmo]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

I don't see that the post you quoted says anything like that.

The "day of seperation" was where Goodes called out racial abuse coming over the fence, right?
And that led to the polarized opinion which he caused, right?
If both those statements are true then explain the difference between what Goodes did, in the totality of his actions, and what Nicky Winmar did.
Happy for anyone to highlight the qualitative difference and be wrong about it.

The difference between what Goodes did and what Winmar did?

In essence; one said 'I am beautiful' and the other said 'you are ugly'. Both statements were correct IMO.

[stjay]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

I don't see that the post you quoted says anything like that.

The "day of seperation" was where Goodes called out racial abuse coming over the fence, right?
And that led to the polarized opinion which he caused, right?
If both those statements are true then explain the difference between what Goodes did, in the totality of his actions, and what Nicky Winmar did.
Happy for anyone to highlight the qualitative difference and be wrong about it.

The difference between what Goodes did and what Winmar did?

In essence; one said 'I am beautiful' and the other said 'you are ugly'. Both statements were correct IMO.

Fair call.

[Austinnn]

Right - so deeply insulting sweeping generalisations about white people are OK, because of context ?? What context , the context of them being white?? You get worse every time you hit the keyboard. You're effectively saying racism is OK, as long as it's directed at an acceptable group, no?

The essence of the absence of racism is when all people are treated equally, with respect. It does not mean it's OK to accept a lower standard of treatment towards one group because another group was once treated worse.

Deeply insulting? I hope that you've just got a crystal jaw and not that you're deliberately feigning offence as a way of evening the score.

As a white person I am not the least bit offended by Baldwin's comments, most thinking adults can recognise that they were a criticism of a society rather than each and every white person.

[Joffrey]

As a white person I am not the least bit offended by Baldwin's comments, most thinking adults can recognise that they were a criticism of a society rather than each and every white person.

And as a very white person, neither am I offended.

I think that some people take insult when called/implied to be 'racist'.

I see most of them as not racist, but lucky.

It's your context thing again Austinnn. Being part of the 'white' majority can mean we don't realise that the stuff, that seems trivial to us, can be very hurtful to certain other people. Especially if those 'certain others' themselves (and certainly their relatives), have had to bear it for a long long time.

I think that's a large part of the 'casual racism' thing that Goodes has been on about. (Maybe he should have used the term 'unintended' racism?)

That's why I don't buy the reverse racism argument.

Sure, whilst technically completely accurate, such 'racist' comments (usually) would really only carry weight when projected upon a member of a minority, by a member of the majority. (Maybe like if someone like me was to attend a J-league game?)

I also think that stuff like Baldwin wrote is trying to say that hundreds of years of discrimination (at best) and repression (at worst) are burned into the psyche of the victims and of their descendants. I suspect it ain't a switch that can be just simply flicked off.

Final point, and this is one I think that is missed by many, and so causes much angst.

Racism I believe, is not a 'white' trait! Racism is a human trait.

Very fortunately for us 'white' people (to compensate for having to hide from the sun...?), it seems that our forbearers where the ones who first worked-out what could be 'achieved' by shoving sufficient amounts of gunpowder down sufficient numbers of metal tubes.

Had it been some else's forbearers, then I have no doubt that it would've been a black or red or yellow or purple or technicolour, 13 y.o. girl calling Roo an alpaca...

This is where I reckon pieces like Baldwin's can miss the point.

Portraying racism as a failing of 'white' nature, when in fact racism is a failing of, and a part of, human nature... only serves to put-up barriers, and stop people from focusing on the real and bigger issue... i.e.; the foibles of human nature.

But whatever the 'colours' involved, I reckon, non desirable human traits like racism, need to be worked on... I see these issues/events as being all a part of the long and slow process... of our human race gradually getting better.


Back to Goodes himself for a mo. I believe, spear or boomerang, either way, it was clumsily executed.

Failed to bring down even one of those Carlscum jeersquad members!

Some hunter!

Should have used a cross-bow.

[Austinnn]

.

The day Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!
No amount of "Kings horses" or "AFL men" will mend the rift created on this day . .
Strongly stated opinions pro or con only confirm your own bias . . don't expect to change the "other"!

So you are saying he was wrong to stop a person racially abusing him? WTF. That kids parents should be the ones being questioned about how they are bringing up their little rat. Edie reframed the whole thing to protect his Collingwood brand then went further comparing Goodes to king kong.

I think the post states that since the "day of separation" opinion on Goodes has been polarized, sides were taken and regardless of your/my opinion and no matter how you/I present the "pro or con" argument it won't matter to/or change the opposing point(s) of view!
To me Goodes is self absorbed and immature to you he is whatever he is . . your posts won't change my opinion and my post's won't change yours.
That will be Goodes legacy . . division!!,

OK I see what you're saying. Becoz Goodes defended himself it's his fault?
So Nicky Winmar did the wrong thing by lifting his shirt and pointing to his skin?
That, I guess was self-absorbed and immature too. No?

I don't see that the post you quoted says anything like that.

The "day of seperation" was where Goodes called out racial abuse coming over the fence, right?
And that led to the polarized opinion which he caused, right?
If both those statements are true then explain the difference between what Goodes did, in the totality of his actions, and what Nicky Winmar did.
Happy for anyone to highlight the qualitative difference and be wrong about it.

The difference between what Goodes did and what Winmar did?

In essence; one said 'I am beautiful' and the other said 'you are ugly'. Both statements were correct IMO.

Awesome post.

[Austinnn]

As a white person I am not the least bit offended by Baldwin's comments, most thinking adults can recognise that they were a criticism of a society rather than each and every white person.

And as a very white person, neither am I offended.

I think that some people take insult when called/implied to be 'racist'.

I see most of them as not racist, but lucky.

It's your context thing again Austinnn. Being part of the 'white' majority can mean we don't realise that the stuff, that seems trivial to us, can be very hurtful to certain other people. Especially if those 'certain others' themselves (and certainly their relatives), have had to bear it for a long long time.

I think that's a large part of the 'casual racism' thing that Goodes has been on about. (Maybe he should have used the term 'unintended' racism?)

That's why I don't buy the reverse racism argument.

Sure, whilst technically completely accurate, such 'racist' comments (usually) would really only carry weight when projected upon a member of a minority, by a member of the majority. (Maybe like if someone like me was to attend a J-league game?)

I also think that stuff like Baldwin wrote is trying to say that hundreds of years of discrimination (at best) and repression (at worst) are burned into the psyche of the victims and of their descendants. I suspect it ain't a switch that can be just simply flicked off.

Final point, and this is one I think that is missed by many, and so causes much angst.

Racism I believe, is not a 'white' trait! Racism is a human trait.

Very fortunately for us 'white' people (to compensate for having to hide from the sun...?), it seems that our forbearers where the ones who first worked-out what could be 'achieved' by shoving sufficient amounts of gunpowder down sufficient numbers of metal tubes.

Had it been some else's forbearers, then I have no doubt that it would've been a black or red or yellow or purple or technicolour, 13 y.o. girl calling Roo an alpaca...

This is where I reckon pieces like Baldwin's can miss the point.

Portraying racism as a failing of 'white' nature, when in fact racism is a failing of, and a part of, human nature... only serves to put-up barriers, and stop people from focusing on the real and bigger issue... i.e.; the foibles of human nature.

But whatever the 'colours' involved, I reckon, non desirable human traits like racism, need to be worked on... I see these issues/events as being all a part of the long and slow process... of our human race gradually getting better.


Back to Goodes himself for a mo. I believe, spear or boomerang, either way, it was clumsily executed.

Failed to bring down even one of those Carlscum jeersquad members!

Some hunter!

Should have used a cross-bow.

Another awesome post. Anyone claiming that racism is a genetically Caucasian thing deserves to be beaten with an irony bar. Most reasonable criticism of racism wouldn't imply such a concept and no one capable of reason would infer it.

Love the bit at the end BTW!

[Austinnn]

I don't want to resort to name calling but I really feel the need to say this and am prepared for any wrath from the mods but
I've come to the conclusion that stjay is either unintelligent or simply a sh*t stirrer...i'm going with both.

Yet another aweso...

Oh.

Oh well.

[whiskers3614]

So was he booed at all last night?

[plugger66]

So was he booed at all last night?

Great question. Watched it at the pub and couldn't hear so can we get an answer on that. I know I booed him at the pub.

[whiskers3614]

So was he booed at all last night?

Great question. Watched it at the pub and couldn't hear so can we get an answer on that. I know I booed him at the pub.

Can't wait for this crap and Essendope to go off the first page.
Has anybody mentioned Nic Nat's mum on here?