Round 22 Adam Goodes

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Dis Believer
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sun 28 Mar 2004 1:42pm
Location: The terraces at Moorabbin, in the pouring rain.......
Has thanked: 289 times
Been thanked: 281 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568713Post Dis Believer »

Austinnn wrote: Its a given that people less interested in racism or less empathic toward victims of racism side with rightwing thought leaders because the right wing is built on a lack of empathy for the common man and the support of a more individualist POV, plus a survival of the fittest sociopolitical order that is happy to let a white majority dominate an aboriginal minority.
I think part of the crux of the cause of conflict stems from your one statement in here that probably encapsulates the two, basic, opposing points of view. Those on the opposite side of the discussion from yourself probably do not see themselves as dominating an aboriginal minority due to the simple fact that the vast majority of them probably have little to no interaction with any aboriginal people!

Whilst the situation is more complex and you are talking in a societal context i.e.you are positing that the non-indigenous part of our society (98%) is dominating the indigenous part of our society (2%), at an individual level, I think many would see that point of view as having no context for them simply because of the lack of presence of an indigenous demographic in their little corner of society. Given that only 2% of our society are indigenous, it's probably not an unreasonable position.


The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
Bunk_Moreland
SS Life Member
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014 7:45pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568714Post Bunk_Moreland »

gringo wrote:
Bunk_Moreland wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:So I now have Shane Warne and Aker expressing views similar to my own. I'm now seriously questioning myself.
Christ mate, I was in agreeance with Rita Panihi and Andrew Bolt.

I had to go and have a shower :( :(

And Sam Newman and Alan Jones. You are in a lot of trouble. Ever wonder if you've backed the wrong horse?

What gringo, is it now - Whose side are you on? With me or agin me?

markp is deadest correct. I am not in any way shape or form a right winger. I usually vehemently disagree with the likes of Bolt and Panahi etc, and many things they say on this issue I think is wrong and inflammatory.

But even your attitude like there is an absolute right and wrong in this argument just shows the mentality and mindset of the groupthink on both "sides" of this argument.

As markp said, triumphantism on the part of one of the "sides" will only lead to pushback from the other "side".

Thankfully I can see both sides of the argument and are not blinkered by orthodox ideology on this particular issue.

Claiming a victory will be Pyrrhic and the divide will be even worse.

Don't for a minute the hectoring and browbeating and lecturing from white hypocrites (on both "sides") has resolved the issue.

Right wingers like Bolt and Panahi use this to further their agenda's, many lefties use this to ally their guilt about the way they do SFA about the plight of aborigines, live on their stolen land and enjoy a middle class lifestyle that hardly one aboriginal in our country enjoys.

Hopefully everybody pulls back and tries to work together to solve these problems instead of name calling and finger pointing.

Can we all agree that booing Adam Goodes is at best mass bullying, and at worst mass bullying with racism as the ugly spectre?

Can we all agree that it has to stop?

Can both side give some concessions or will it be all one way and their will be an undercurrent of resentment from one "side" or another?


You are garbage - Enough said
User avatar
Dis Believer
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sun 28 Mar 2004 1:42pm
Location: The terraces at Moorabbin, in the pouring rain.......
Has thanked: 289 times
Been thanked: 281 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568717Post Dis Believer »

Sorry, I cannot find Austinnn's original post with this within it, but Cly quoted it and I copied it from there rather than include a mass of re-quotes:

"It's also a given that anyone who only wants to maintain their privilege of watching their favourite sports without being made to think about the errors of their ancestors"

This follows on from my prior post - but this to me raises the question - why? Why should everyone when they simply take their family to a football game have to do so within some political context? How long should they sit in silent reflection on the actions of people who lived 200 years ago as some strange payment for watching a sports game? How many more generations to come will need to do the same? At what point do we put down the baggage of the past?
It's hard to move forward if you are preoccupied with looking backwards. That doesn't excuse whatever may have occurred, but unless people are prepared to move on, then we will end up with nothing more than a variation of the same problem that plagued Ireland, Serbia/Croatia and numerous other places. That is a conflict than runs for centuries because people continue to insist that the sins of the father are visited upon the son, ad infinitum.......

This serves only to cast our indigenous population in the role of victims - in perpetuity........


The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568719Post plugger66 »

ace wrote:
Life Long Saint wrote:
plugger66 wrote:And im sure the girl didn't have any racist intentions but she used a racist remark and im also sure he didn't know she was 13.
He knew how old she was the next day at the packed press conference when he said "Racism has a face. It's a 13-year-old girl."
The worst part about that statement is that it was considered and deliberate. Very, very poor form from Goodes and the act of a total bully!
Instead of education, he chose ridicule.

Personally, I don't nor would boo him...Booing would indicate acknowledgement of a threat or some feeling toward him. I just feel nothing for the man. Nothing for his actions on and off the footy field.
I wonder if one of Goodes Go Foundation indigenous 13 year old kids had called a white player an ape, would Goodes have publicly humiliated that kid.
I think we all know the answer but many of the political correct bent won't admit it.

I have seen many of your statements and you clearly don't get it all. You have a bit of an excuse because I believe you have said you are older than 60.


User avatar
ace
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10799
Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 837 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568720Post ace »

BakesFan wrote:Adam Goodes needs to understand Newton's third law (that's Sir Isaac... not Bert!)

...but IMHO... the booing??... i don't like it personally....but to each their own.
That would be "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

He may also consider Newton's First Law
A body remains at rest or in a state of motion in a straight line unless acted upon by a force.
The desire to boo Goodes will remain until he acts.
If he apologises for bullying a child and spear throwing at the crowd then that force leaves the booers with nowhere to go but stop.

There is a lot of paedophilia amongt indigenous communities and there is nothing worse than paedophilia
I think Goodes would know more about this than I.
I suspect that in his work with indigenous kids he has been confronted with it and helped the victims.
But that does not excuse bullying kids because adults bullying children is only one step above paedophilia.
Being indigenous does not excuse paedophilia or bullying children.

If you don't apologise Adam Goodes I will boo you and your politically correct supporters all the way to the fires of hell that await you.


The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.

If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
stjay
Club Player
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue 12 May 2015 2:50pm

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568723Post stjay »

This left / right paradigm people continually use is false. It is pushed by a mass media and those who simply want to divide us and polarise the debate.
It is a question of liberty where a man gets judged by the content of his character and not the colour of his skin.

You want a recent comparison? Sam Mitchell after what he had been doing to hurt players consistently for years (don't tell me it was a reflex action) should be, based on the Adam Goodes precedent, constantly boo-ed everytime he touches the ball but he is not. Why?? I accept there are contradictions with the different way people get treated by the public but there is no co-incidence that harsh public treatment falls on the head of an indigenous man.
And if you do you're only fooling yourself.
The law of Cause and Effect is universal.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568724Post plugger66 »

ace wrote:
BakesFan wrote:Adam Goodes needs to understand Newton's third law (that's Sir Isaac... not Bert!)

...but IMHO... the booing??... i don't like it personally....but to each their own.
That would be "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

He may also consider Newton's First Law
A body remains at rest or in a state of motion in a straight line unless acted upon by a force.
The desire to boo Goodes will remain until he acts.
If he apologises for bullying a child and spear throwing at the crowd then that force leaves the booers with nowhere to go but stop.

There is a lot of paedophilia amongt indigenous communities and there is nothing worse than paedophilia
I think Goodes would know more about this than I.
I suspect that in his work with indigenous kids he has been confronted with it and helped the victims.
But that does not excuse bullying kids because adults bullying children is only one step above paedophilia.
Being indigenous does not excuse paedophilia or bullying children.

If you don't apologise Adam Goodes I will boo you and your politically correct supporters all the way to the fires of hell that await you.

You are a fool. You have been asked not to boo so don't do it. And how the hell did you possibly link paedophilia to this. I gave you an excuse in the previous post. You have no excuse now. You are a disgrace. Pathetic.


stjay
Club Player
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue 12 May 2015 2:50pm

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568726Post stjay »

plugger66 wrote:
ace wrote:
BakesFan wrote:Adam Goodes needs to understand Newton's third law (that's Sir Isaac... not Bert!)

...but IMHO... the booing??... i don't like it personally....but to each their own.
That would be "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

He may also consider Newton's First Law
A body remains at rest or in a state of motion in a straight line unless acted upon by a force.
The desire to boo Goodes will remain until he acts.
If he apologises for bullying a child and spear throwing at the crowd then that force leaves the booers with nowhere to go but stop.

There is a lot of paedophilia amongt indigenous communities and there is nothing worse than paedophilia
I think Goodes would know more about this than I.
I suspect that in his work with indigenous kids he has been confronted with it and helped the victims.
But that does not excuse bullying kids because adults bullying children is only one step above paedophilia.
Being indigenous does not excuse paedophilia or bullying children.

If you don't apologise Adam Goodes I will boo you and your politically correct supporters all the way to the fires of hell that await you.

You are a fool. You have been asked not to boo so don't do it. And how the hell did you possibly link paedophilia to this. I gave you an excuse in the previous post. You have no excuse now. You are a disgrace. Pathetic.
No! Let him boo. His argument is utterly ridiculous but we have the opportunity to show these types of people that they will not carry the day.
Cheer loud and proud for Adam Goodes and drown out this ignorance.


User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23532
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568729Post Con Gorozidis »

plugger66 wrote:
ace wrote:
BakesFan wrote:Adam Goodes needs to understand Newton's third law (that's Sir Isaac... not Bert!)

...but IMHO... the booing??... i don't like it personally....but to each their own.
That would be "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

He may also consider Newton's First Law
A body remains at rest or in a state of motion in a straight line unless acted upon by a force.
The desire to boo Goodes will remain until he acts.
If he apologises for bullying a child and spear throwing at the crowd then that force leaves the booers with nowhere to go but stop.

There is a lot of paedophilia amongt indigenous communities and there is nothing worse than paedophilia
I think Goodes would know more about this than I.
I suspect that in his work with indigenous kids he has been confronted with it and helped the victims.
But that does not excuse bullying kids because adults bullying children is only one step above paedophilia.
Being indigenous does not excuse paedophilia or bullying children.

If you don't apologise Adam Goodes I will boo you and your politically correct supporters all the way to the fires of hell that await you.

You are a fool. You have been asked not to boo so don't do it. And how the hell did you possibly link paedophilia to this. I gave you an excuse in the previous post. You have no excuse now. You are a disgrace. Pathetic.
In America they say we have 'jumped the shark' (this is a Happy Days reference for when Fonzie jumped a shark on water skis). I think ace has certainly the jumped the shark here.

Image

Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Fri 31 Jul 2015 2:01pm, edited 3 times in total.


saintspremiers
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 25303
Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
Location: Trump Tower
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 284 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568730Post saintspremiers »

plugger66 wrote:
ace wrote:
BakesFan wrote:Adam Goodes needs to understand Newton's third law (that's Sir Isaac... not Bert!)

...but IMHO... the booing??... i don't like it personally....but to each their own.
That would be "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

He may also consider Newton's First Law
A body remains at rest or in a state of motion in a straight line unless acted upon by a force.
The desire to boo Goodes will remain until he acts.
If he apologises for bullying a child and spear throwing at the crowd then that force leaves the booers with nowhere to go but stop.

There is a lot of paedophilia amongt indigenous communities and there is nothing worse than paedophilia
I think Goodes would know more about this than I.
I suspect that in his work with indigenous kids he has been confronted with it and helped the victims.
But that does not excuse bullying kids because adults bullying children is only one step above paedophilia.
Being indigenous does not excuse paedophilia or bullying children.

If you don't apologise Adam Goodes I will boo you and your politically correct supporters all the way to the fires of hell that await you.

You are a fool. You have been asked not to boo so don't do it. And how the hell did you possibly link paedophilia to this. I gave you an excuse in the previous post. You have no excuse now. You are a disgrace. Pathetic.
You can't stop people booing. It's part of our game.


i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23532
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568732Post Con Gorozidis »

saintspremiers wrote:
You can't stop people booing. It's part of our game.
Well its not really 'part of our game' to boo one bloke week-week-out based on political reasons. I am not sure it has ever happened before in VFL/AFL history.
Was anyone booed for being a commie in the 50s?
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Fri 31 Jul 2015 2:03pm, edited 1 time in total.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568734Post plugger66 »

saintspremiers wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
ace wrote:
BakesFan wrote:Adam Goodes needs to understand Newton's third law (that's Sir Isaac... not Bert!)

...but IMHO... the booing??... i don't like it personally....but to each their own.
That would be "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

He may also consider Newton's First Law
A body remains at rest or in a state of motion in a straight line unless acted upon by a force.
The desire to boo Goodes will remain until he acts.
If he apologises for bullying a child and spear throwing at the crowd then that force leaves the booers with nowhere to go but stop.

There is a lot of paedophilia amongt indigenous communities and there is nothing worse than paedophilia
I think Goodes would know more about this than I.
I suspect that in his work with indigenous kids he has been confronted with it and helped the victims.
But that does not excuse bullying kids because adults bullying children is only one step above paedophilia.
Being indigenous does not excuse paedophilia or bullying children.

If you don't apologise Adam Goodes I will boo you and your politically correct supporters all the way to the fires of hell that await you.

You are a fool. You have been asked not to boo so don't do it. And how the hell did you possibly link paedophilia to this. I gave you an excuse in the previous post. You have no excuse now. You are a disgrace. Pathetic.
You can't stop people booing. It's part of our game.
No you cant but indigenous people think the booing to Goodes has racist overtones and they have asked for people not to do it. If you booed him now its because you are a racist , a bully or a f****** fool. How it is helping anyone including the person booing by booing?


Bunk_Moreland
SS Life Member
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014 7:45pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568744Post Bunk_Moreland »

stjay wrote: No! Let him boo. His argument is utterly ridiculous but we have the opportunity to show these types of people that they will not carry the day.
Cheer loud and proud for Adam Goodes and drown out this ignorance.

I really think the only people who would still boo Adam Goodes would be the out and out racist, the pig headed ignoramous, or the ones who lack any compassion for the mental state of a fellow human being, or those who lack of common decency.

Really is it too much?


You are garbage - Enough said
User avatar
Austinnn
Club Player
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed 22 Jun 2011 6:02pm
Location: France
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568745Post Austinnn »

True Believer wrote:How many more generations to come will need to do the same? At what point do we put down the baggage of the past?
It's hard to move forward if you are preoccupied with looking backwards. That doesn't excuse whatever may have occurred, but unless people are prepared to move on, then we will end up with nothing more than a variation of the same problem that plagued Ireland, Serbia/Croatia and numerous other places. That is a conflict than runs for centuries because people continue to insist that the sins of the father are visited upon the son, ad infinitum.......

This serves only to cast our indigenous population in the role of victims - in perpetuity........
Good point. I reckon the past will keep coming up and it won't be truly forgotten, until the original population of Australia are given back enough power to make their own home (country, not just house) as they want it. More or less the same as the rest of us.

In short, probably never.

Your previous point was bang on, the near total absence in mainstream Australia of Aboriginal people means many Aussies can't connect with them, it just becomes a history lesson, or dry tokenism to excuse the sins of previous generations, but don't kid yourself that these sins aren't being repeated now, and others can talk more about that...

For many, the idea of changing our culture or identity is essentially saying what we have now is not good enough, which is hard to hear, and a reason why they get defensive. They are unwittingly falling back into the McAllister line that why shouldn't aboriginal Australia embace new (white) Aussie identity and culture.

But so long as aboriginal people exist, and some non-aboriginal people listen to them, their story will not be allowed to be forgotten, and that story has been partially but not wholly dealt with.

We said sorry.
We embraced Aboriginal art, dance, music.
We lionise aboriginal leaders, put them on banknotes, teach their stories in school.
We have an indigenous round in an AFL season.
Occasionally we forgive their mistakes.
Occasionally we overlook the parts of their culture we disagree with.

But the indigenous communities of Australia still have little access to self-determinism. They don't have the same access to health care, education that is the backbone of survival. Because of this they don't have access to the same career choices. They get to run communities with little public facilities or funding. I could continue but really, you know it already.

They are not blameless, they shoot themselves in the foot, as it is human nature to do so. The consequences of multi-generational poverty will take a long time to disappear.

But I'll repeat. Until they have total choice about how to live their lives, or at least to the same degree as most of us, then the past and the present will be intertwined, and ...

We can sweep it under the carpet, but at moments of conflict, it'll be there, waiting to be dealt with. That's Australia's curse, built on blood and pain. The foundations that support the house.

So I hope that eventually Australia doesn't have to keep answering for the sins of its fathers, because that will mean that finally indigenous Australians get a proper answer, and can live and thrive like their countrymen.


Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------

You'll Never Walk Alone
User avatar
asiu
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10313
Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
Has thanked: 1327 times
Been thanked: 932 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568749Post asiu »

not that i wanna have a go at u plugger ,
in any shape or form
... but how does it help (for you , in this instance)
to state that someone is pathetic and a fool ?

at least the poster expresses his pov ,
and 'may' change it 'if' his view is discussed
(he may not as well)

but the attack creates defense ... leading to diggin in

again , not having a 'go' ... using your style to express / enquire about the
micro / macro planet earth reality / dilema as it is.


Image
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.

.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
User avatar
Austinnn
Club Player
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed 22 Jun 2011 6:02pm
Location: France
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568752Post Austinnn »

Sorry about the lecture. It sounds pompous and teacherly, especially as saynta said from a pom living in France. I know. I wish I could phrase it differently, or more briefly.

I know its too much for many of us.

The question is: what can I, one person, do for them?

I don't know the answer, and this is just me thinking based on what I've heard seen and read, but learning about this issue (the relation aboriginal Australia has with Australian society) first hand may be a start. Visit the communities, interact with the people, get a sense of what they aspire to be, what they want for their kids, beyond the basics. Listen to their leaders, imperfect as they may be. Remember that they are all different, one doesn't speak for all.

If that is too difficult, just empathising and being open-minded would suffice.
Last edited by Austinnn on Fri 31 Jul 2015 2:57pm, edited 2 times in total.


Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------

You'll Never Walk Alone
Bunk_Moreland
SS Life Member
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014 7:45pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568753Post Bunk_Moreland »

WindSister wrote:not that i wanna have a go at u plugger ,
in any shape or form
... but how does it help (for you , in this instance)
to state that someone is pathetic and a fool ?

at least the poster expresses his pov ,
and 'may' change it 'if' his view is discussed
(he may not as well)

but the attack creates defense ... leading to diggin in

again , not having a 'go' ... using your style to express / enquire about the
micro / macro planet earth reality / dilema as it is.
a point that I have been trying to make but you do it so more eloquently Mr Sister.

We cant have this division, we cant have "sides". There has to be a middle ground.


You are garbage - Enough said
Bunk_Moreland
SS Life Member
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014 7:45pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568757Post Bunk_Moreland »

Austinnn wrote:Sorry about the lecture.

I know its too much for many of us.

The question is: what can I, one person, do for them?

I don't know the answer, and this is just me thinking based on what I've heard seen and read, but learning about this issue (the relation aboriginal Australia has with Australian society) first hand may be a start. Visit the communities, interact with the people, get a sense of what they aspire to be, what they want for their kids, beyond the basics. Listen to their leaders, imperfect as they may be. Remember that they are all different, one doesn't speak for all.

If that is too difficult, just empathising and being open-minded would suffice.
Not bad advice, and I don't want to be cynical here but have you ever worked with aborigines either in the city or towns.

And that is not rhetorical or a challenge.

This is a vexing issue that we as a nation have NEVER been able to come to terms with.

My wife, a very compassionate woman who is across many of our social issues, was so distraught about the blight of Aboriginal kids especially in the Northern Territory that when Howard announced the intervention, she was so relieve that "something" was being attempted that she wrote a long letter to Mal Brough, the then relevant Minister. If you knew my wifes politics you would know that is an extraordinary thing to occur.

I know that is just anecdotal, but there is that type of goodwill and despair in the community because we are moritified at the rate of addiction, child abuse, domestic violence etc in the aboriginal community - but we just don't know what to do.

One thing we can do is to stop frikken booing Goodes. That we CAN control.


You are garbage - Enough said
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568759Post plugger66 »

WindSister wrote:not that i wanna have a go at u plugger ,
in any shape or form
... but how does it help (for you , in this instance)
to state that someone is pathetic and a fool ?

at least the poster expresses his pov ,
and 'may' change it 'if' his view is discussed
(he may not as well)

but the attack creates defense ... leading to diggin in

again , not having a 'go' ... using your style to express / enquire about the
micro / macro planet earth reality / dilema as it is.

When he bring paedophilia into this he is a fool and is pathetic. If you are happy with that then fine. I think its disgusting. And it has been discussed with him rationally and he then comes up with crap like that.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568760Post plugger66 »

Bunk_Moreland wrote:
WindSister wrote:not that i wanna have a go at u plugger ,
in any shape or form
... but how does it help (for you , in this instance)
to state that someone is pathetic and a fool ?

at least the poster expresses his pov ,
and 'may' change it 'if' his view is discussed
(he may not as well)

but the attack creates defense ... leading to diggin in

again , not having a 'go' ... using your style to express / enquire about the
micro / macro planet earth reality / dilema as it is.
a point that I have been trying to make but you do it so more eloquently Mr Sister.

We cant have this division, we cant have "sides". There has to be a middle ground.
Sometimes what is said is has to be attacked IMO of course. I don't think I have said anything about sides previously. Havent expressed left or right or right or wrong. All I have said is we must stop now. And I have tried to explain what I think is racist comments. What Ace said is worse than that.


User avatar
GrumpyOne
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8163
Joined: Wed 17 Mar 2010 9:25am
Location: Kicked out of the Coffee Shop, Settlement Pub, Cranbourne

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568764Post GrumpyOne »

This article explains it all.

I reckon I could go through the 23 odd pages of this thread and tick off all eight ways more than once.

http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-vi ... iohbl.html

But I am concerned about the welfare of Adam.

How can anybody, no matter how internally strong they are, go through extreme workplace harassment, and have your beliefs as to the cause continually questioned by media personalities who do not have the faintest idea what it is to be a proud aboriginal in White Australia.

We can all stop booing, but the damage is already done.

I do not particularly like Goodes style of play, but he is an acknowledged champion of the game.

To see him depart the game in this fashion is disgusting.

It doesn't matter whether you think he brought it on himself by his actions or words, he holds deep and considered views about his heritage and his people. Who are we to mock those views. As a wise man once said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".


Australia...... Live it like we stole it....... Because we did.
User avatar
Austinnn
Club Player
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed 22 Jun 2011 6:02pm
Location: France
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568765Post Austinnn »

Bunk_Moreland wrote: Not bad advice, and I don't want to be cynical here but have you ever worked with aborigines either in the city or towns.

And that is not rhetorical or a challenge.

This is a vexing issue that we as a nation have NEVER been able to come to terms with.

My wife, a very compassionate woman who is across many of our social issues, was so distraught about the blight of Aboriginal kids especially in the Northern Territory that when Howard announced the intervention, she was so relieve that "something" was being attempted that she wrote a long letter to Mal Brough, the then relevant Minister. If you knew my wifes politics you would know that is an extraordinary thing to occur.

I know that is just anecdotal, but there is that type of goodwill and despair in the community because we are moritified at the rate of addiction, child abuse, domestic violence etc in the aboriginal community - but we just don't know what to do.

One thing we can do is to stop frikken booing Goodes. That we CAN control.
I know if she's your wife her politics must be pretty sound! Your question deserves an answer, so I'll hang my head and say no. No excuses from me.

I know this undermines my point and everyone can jump on my back and call me a filthy hypocrite. I have to say if I was there now, i would try to, but words come easy. Just another member of the Wailing Class, right? But its not about me.

I totally agree about being overwhelmed, its a story I've heard again and agin from people like your wife who have seen it first hand. Even previously on this forum, accounts of negative experiences in aboriginal towns, it colours our perception and it takes huge character not to just say ah f*** it let em sort it out themselves.

Then there is the fear of another Stolen Generation syndrome: when we step in and try and help, we have f***ed it up more. God knows no one wants that to reoccur.

You and most people here agree: it starts with not booing Goodes, except for football related matters. This whole mess started when he reacted to a girl copying the crowd around her calling him an ape, not because he looked like an ape, as some people pretend, but because they still see his race as apes. Let's deal with that.


Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------

You'll Never Walk Alone
User avatar
Austinnn
Club Player
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed 22 Jun 2011 6:02pm
Location: France
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568766Post Austinnn »

I agree its a lot worse plugger, and after laying into saynta, I'm the last person who should reproach you for calling ace a fool. The key is the "gates of hell" remark, I think, but that's my own prejudice...
Easy to get worked up when we take on serious topics, maybe that's why we prefer to talk footy...

..hey, remember footy?!


Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------

You'll Never Walk Alone
User avatar
ace
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10799
Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 837 times

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568769Post ace »

I am prepared to accept that when Adam Goodes first turned around to point out the person who had called him an Ape he may not have realised that persons age.
When he pointed that person out so that security knew who it was, he may not have realised that persons age.
Being escorted up the aisle by security and interrogated by the police with no other adult present (boo to the police for that) was more than enough.
Leave it that.

But when Adam Goodes held a press conference the next day and said ""Racism has a face. It's a 13-year-old girl." he went way over the top.
Publicly humiliating her not because she, a 13 year old deserved it, but only to push for his own political agenda.
He did not care whether the kid lived or died.
Fortunately she was tough enough not to suicide but then Goodes would not have cared.
All he cared about was his war.

His actions were one step above paedophila.

Worst: Paedophilia
Second Worst: Bullying a child
Third Worst: Racism

I will defend any child white, black or brown against paedophiles, bullying and racism in that order.
I will not be intimidated by political correctness.


The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.

If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Bunk_Moreland
SS Life Member
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed 14 May 2014 7:45pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Round 22 Adam Goodes

Post: # 1568771Post Bunk_Moreland »

plugger66 wrote:
Bunk_Moreland wrote:
WindSister wrote:not that i wanna have a go at u plugger ,
in any shape or form
... but how does it help (for you , in this instance)
to state that someone is pathetic and a fool ?

at least the poster expresses his pov ,
and 'may' change it 'if' his view is discussed
(he may not as well)

but the attack creates defense ... leading to diggin in

again , not having a 'go' ... using your style to express / enquire about the
micro / macro planet earth reality / dilema as it is.
a point that I have been trying to make but you do it so more eloquently Mr Sister.

We cant have this division, we cant have "sides". There has to be a middle ground.
Sometimes what is said is has to be attacked IMO of course. I don't think I have said anything about sides previously. Havent expressed left or right or right or wrong. All I have said is we must stop now. And I have tried to explain what I think is racist comments. What Ace said is worse than that.

Wasn't having a shot at you P66. apologies if you thought I was. I think your reasoning is fair enough.


You are garbage - Enough said
Post Reply