Round 22 Adam Goodes

[plugger66]

Just a small example. My son and his mates all love football and three of them are the best in their age group. They have never played on the MCG. The two young part indiginous boys that are average at best play 2 or three times a year have been to AFL coaching clinics. Is this fair? Why shouldnt my son be treated the same.

No idea. Have the courage to speak to the relevant people. No idea what that has to do with discussion at all.

[mullet]

I'd rather leave the final word on this to a very eloquent aboriginal man called Dallas Scott:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com. ... ol-of.html

Didn't anyone else read this?

Very powerful stuff. Great to hear from the more relevant perspective at last.

Thanks for posting Satchmo. It was interesting. But man the word Racism gets thrown around so much I hope it doesn't loose its meaning.

I guess he sums it up in the final paragraph, that as long as everyone is afforded the same opportunity in life then there should be no reason to complain.

[CURLY]

Just a small example. My son and his mates all love football and three of them are the best in their age group. They have never played on the MCG. The two young part indiginous boys that are average at best play 2 or three times a year have been to AFL coaching clinics. Is this fair? Why shouldnt my son be treated the same.

No idea. Have the courage to speak to the relevant people. No idea what that has to do with discussion at all.

Perhaps get all the white people to protest and not play.

[satchmo]

I'd rather leave the final word on this to a very eloquent aboriginal man called Dallas Scott:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com. ... ol-of.html

Didn't anyone else read this?

Very powerful stuff. Great to hear from the more relevant perspective at last.

I heard Nova Peris. She said nothing like that. She seems pretty relevant to me.

No comment on the article? I'm sure Nova's opinion is relevant, and will help politicians deal with the issues.

So she has a reason not to think like you. I would never have guessed. She was on SEN as an aboriginal not a bloody politician. As for the article that's his opinion on it. I don't agree and im sure we could find many more aboriginals that don't agree than do agree.

You don't have a clue how I think. I didn't hear Nova's take on it, but it's good that she has a chance to be heard.
What don't you agree with in the article? Anything specific, or just the vibe?

Does this not ring true?...

The caring, informed and sensitive city dwellers who, despite their alabaster skin tone and lack of racial diversity, can not only see, smell and hear racism, but tragically, are so deeply affected by it that they feel they must differentiate themselves from the white person next to them by pointing at them and screaming racist long enough and loud enough that somehow, somewhere in the midst of all their righteous shouting, their own skin tone will be forgotten or ignored.

[plugger66]

I'd rather leave the final word on this to a very eloquent aboriginal man called Dallas Scott:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com. ... ol-of.html

Didn't anyone else read this?

Very powerful stuff. Great to hear from the more relevant perspective at last.

I heard Nova Peris. She said nothing like that. She seems pretty relevant to me.

No comment on the article? I'm sure Nova's opinion is relevant, and will help politicians deal with the issues.

So she has a reason not to think like you. I would never have guessed. She was on SEN as an aboriginal not a bloody politician. As for the article that's his opinion on it. I don't agree and im sure we could find many more aboriginals that don't agree than do agree.

You don't have a clue how I think. I didn't hear Nova's take on it, but it's good that she has a chance to be heard.
What don't you agree with in the article? Anything specific, or just the vibe?

Does this not ring true?...

The caring, informed and sensitive city dwellers who, despite their alabaster skin tone and lack of racial diversity, can not only see, smell and hear racism, but tragically, are so deeply affected by it that they feel they must differentiate themselves from the white person next to them by pointing at them and screaming racist long enough and loud enough that somehow, somewhere in the midst of all their righteous shouting, their own skin tone will be forgotten or ignored.

I think you have spoken enough on this thread to work out how you feel and not for one moment do I think you are racist. I didn't mean that. As for the article I was talking about the whole article and how I don't agree with it. Sure there are parts I agree with. And im unsure I have called many people racists on this thread. I do think though that many people don't understand what and what isn't racist.

[matrix]

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=raci ... mAWXyZ7QDw

its pretty broad isnt it

can of worms
opened

[gringo]

All you do gooders need to get a grip. Milner copped it for years and dealt with it. This whole thing is a non event if that flog doesn't come out sooking. Now he needs a week off and his mum to fight his battles. It will now be worse.

The booing clearly is effecting him and the way he plays therefor any supporter who wants to help there team will boo him.

The Sydney media need to keep there dirty filthy corrupt noses out of our game.

If our club supports this flog in anyway I will be done with them.

The afl did nothing when Malthouse called Milbe a rapist now they want to tell all fans that they are wrong and racist. I'm starting to think the only thing we are wrong about is supporting a game run by idiots.

I hope Sam Newman tells it exactly how it is tonight. There are only a few willing to speak the truth in this situation

This is a guy who dressed in black face when a shy Nicky Winmar didn't go on the footy show. Im pretty sure you will get Sam doing something that oversteps the boundaries and the other panelists will pretend to hold slightly more modern views on the matter without actually stopping giggling.

I am happy to have you silent protest by giving up on the club. Im pretty sure most of our players would be pretty pissed off with the public attitude towards a fellow AFL player. They are obviously a little too soft for you so maybe UFC or something would suit better.

If you think that dressing up like someone is racist you are a deluded idiot. He wore the black make up to dress up as Winmar not to hurt him. If a black person paints himself White is that racist? I am sick of people trying to be overly politically correct.

It is like we are racing to the highest spot on the moral high ground so we can look down on every one.

The media has lost the plot

Rolf Harris had a hit in the 1960s called Tie me Kangaroo down. It had the line "let your abo go loose Bruce, it's of no further use, let your abo go loose" They were denied the right to vote and weren't citizens of Australia until a year after we won the Premiership. African americans were segregated from the rest of society. They have reasons to be sensitive about the way they are still treated as well. I think you might be saying they are overly sensitive about nothing much. If the shoe was on the other foot I would be so pissed off I'm not sure I would be so nice about demanding some kind of rebalancing of power.

[Con Gorozidis]

I am happy to take the word of Tim Soutphommasane . Smart bloke.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stor ... swans.html

[Linton Lodger]

If Adam Goodes clocks one of our boys behind play, then by all means boo him as we would anyone else.

However, in the absence of any on field treachery, not only should we refrain from booing Adam Goodes, we should give him an ovation, before the game starts of course.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think the issues all get so conflated. There are lots of mixed issues all being blended in to one. I think it helps to separate them out.

[SinCitySainter]

If Adam Goodes clocks one of our boys behind play, then by all means boo him as we would anyone else.

However, in the absence of any on field treachery, not only should we refrain from booing Adam Goodes, we should give him an ovation, before the game starts of course.

Actually, I agree with the first part and agree that we should not boo him.
However, we should not give him an ovation as that is singling him out because of he has been on the end of perceived racist treatment and not because of his abilities as a footballer.
We never gave Leigh Matthews an ovation before a game and he has been rated the greatest player ever.
The only time Adam Goodes should receive an ovation is after his last game when he retires as a sign of respect and when he goes around the MCG on Grand Final day.
To give him an ovation because he has been booed, whether the booing is due to racism or other reasons, is hypocritical in the extreme.
Because lets be completely honest here the booing may or may not be racially based but the ovation would certainly be so.
Giving him an ovation does nothing more than create a scenario whereby individuals can give themselves a big pat on the back and say "look how enlightened we are, we are cheering an indigenous man not booing him".

[Dis Believer]

I am happy to take the word of Tim Soutphommasane . Smart bloke.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stor ... swans.html

Why - because you are like-minded?

[Linton Lodger]

If Adam Goodes clocks one of our boys behind play, then by all means boo him as we would anyone else.

However, in the absence of any on field treachery, not only should we refrain from booing Adam Goodes, we should give him an ovation, before the game starts of course.

Actually, I agree with the first part and agree that we should not boo him.
However, we should not give him an ovation as that is singling him out because of he has been on the end of perceived racist treatment and not because of his abilities as a footballer.
We never gave Leigh Matthews an ovation before a game and he has been rated the greatest player ever.
The only time Adam Goodes should receive an ovation is after his last game when he retires as a sign of respect and when he goes around the MCG on Grand Final day.
To give him an ovation because he has been booed, whether the booing is due to racism or other reasons, is hypocritical in the extreme.
Because lets be completely honest here the booing may or may not be racially based but the ovation would certainly be so.
Giving him an ovation does nothing more than create a scenario whereby individuals can give themselves a big pat on the back and say "look how enlightened we are, we are cheering an indigenous man not booing him".

I'm not suggesting an ovation because he was booed, I'm suggesting an ovation because of the courage of his conviction and what he stands for. He is getting booed because he called Australia Day, Invasion Day. It was an invasion in breach of International Law of the time (otherwise the French would have claimed Australia). So Goodes stated a fact, and if people want to boo him because they have this quaint jingoistic notion of our history, may they wallow in their profound ignorance.

[Dr Spaceman]

Just out of interest. And let me firstly say I am not a booer (I may have booed when BJ got his first touch for the Bombers against us, but it was one of those light-hearted theatrical boos ).

Anyhoo, if I was to go to the Boxing (which I wouldn’t because I dislike the “sport”) I may be tempted to boo one of the participants.

One of the participants who, like Goodes, is indigenous.

And, like Goodes, is outspoken.

Would I run the risk of being labelled racist if I were to boo Anthony Mundine? Because I really can’t stand that egocentric loudmouth

[stjay]

If Adam Goodes clocks one of our boys behind play, then by all means boo him as we would anyone else.

However, in the absence of any on field treachery, not only should we refrain from booing Adam Goodes, we should give him an ovation, before the game starts of course.

Actually, I agree with the first part and agree that we should not boo him.
However, we should not give him an ovation as that is singling him out because of he has been on the end of perceived racist treatment and not because of his abilities as a footballer.
We never gave Leigh Matthews an ovation before a game and he has been rated the greatest player ever.
The only time Adam Goodes should receive an ovation is after his last game when he retires as a sign of respect and when he goes around the MCG on Grand Final day.
To give him an ovation because he has been booed, whether the booing is due to racism or other reasons, is hypocritical in the extreme.
Because lets be completely honest here the booing may or may not be racially based but the ovation would certainly be so.
Giving him an ovation does nothing more than create a scenario whereby individuals can give themselves a big pat on the back and say "look how enlightened we are, we are cheering an indigenous man not booing him".

And why did Lenny deserve the reception from opposition players and supporters he received?
Point is, there is a good argument to say a dual Brownlow medalist deserves the respect of the football public for his service to the game in the last couple of games of his career.
It is not self serving, it is making a stand to give a champion a fitting send off.
We are allow to come together once and while for something that is bigger than football.
There is no way he has done enough to warrant the treatment he currently gets so however it started it has changed into something which clearly has a racist tone.
We are not talking about continuing to cheer for an indigenous man over his career just coz he's indigenous - it is one game and it is for a champion.
Is that too much to ask? Seriously???

[The Fireman]

Just out of interest. And let me firstly say I am not a booer (I may have booed when BJ got his first touch for the Bombers against us, but it was one of those light-hearted theatrical boos ).

Anyhoo, if I was to go to the Boxing (which I wouldn’t because I dislike the “sport”) I may be tempted to boo one of the participants.

One of the participants who, like Goodes, is indigenous.

And, like Goodes, is outspoken.

Would I run the risk of being labelled racist if I were to boo Anthony Mundine? Because I really can’t stand that egocentric loudmouth

+1

[GrumpyOne]

I know I said I was sick of this discussion, and no longer wanted to participate, but sometimes you come across something that really needs to be pointed out.

It will probably get lost in the hurley-burley of this thread, but I think it is worth saying.

It is a quote from that doyen of all that is fair and just, Alan Jones.

Jones says that the sustained booing of Adam Goodes has nothing to do with race.

His opinion of course.

He then says that Goodes should "look in the mirror and wonder why (people are booing him)"

I would respectfully suggest that when Adam Goodes looks in the mirror he sees an Aboriginal man looking back at him.

I think that answers the question.

[plugger66]

Just out of interest. And let me firstly say I am not a booer (I may have booed when BJ got his first touch for the Bombers against us, but it was one of those light-hearted theatrical boos ).

Anyhoo, if I was to go to the Boxing (which I wouldn’t because I dislike the “sport”) I may be tempted to boo one of the participants.

One of the participants who, like Goodes, is indigenous.

And, like Goodes, is outspoken.

Would I run the risk of being labelled racist if I were to boo Anthony Mundine? Because I really can’t stand that egocentric loudmouth

No because Mundine has said completely stupid things like the 9/11 stuff. Even the speech Goodes said at the AOTY award has been misrepresented. I think people should hear that again because they may have heard it incorrectly the first time. You can boo anyone you like if the reason makes sense. Im unsure the reasons make sense for Goodes but even if it isn't racism for the reason of booing it has now been requested to not boo so why would anyone do it unless he does something stupid on the day.

[The Fireman]

Just out of interest. And let me firstly say I am not a booer (I may have booed when BJ got his first touch for the Bombers against us, but it was one of those light-hearted theatrical boos ).

Anyhoo, if I was to go to the Boxing (which I wouldn’t because I dislike the “sport”) I may be tempted to boo one of the participants.

One of the participants who, like Goodes, is indigenous.

And, like Goodes, is outspoken.

Would I run the risk of being labelled racist if I were to boo Anthony Mundine? Because I really can’t stand that egocentric loudmouth

No because Mundine has said completely stupid things like the 9/11 stuff. Even the speech Goodes said at the AOTY award has been misrepresented. I think people should hear that again because they may have heard it incorrectly the first time. You can boo anyone you like if the reason makes sense. Im unsure the reasons make sense for Goodes but even if it isn't racism for the reason of booing it has now been requested to not boo so why would anyone do it unless he does something stupid on the day.

cool so if I boo Mundine I'm not racist..phew

[Dis Believer]

I'd rather leave the final word on this to a very eloquent aboriginal man called Dallas Scott:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com. ... ol-of.html

Didn't anyone else read this?

Very powerful stuff. Great to hear from the more relevant perspective at last.

I heard Nova Peris. She said nothing like that. She seems pretty relevant to me.

Right - so an opinion from a full-blood aboriginal man, about purported racism towards a part aboriginal footballer, is to be dismissed out of hand because it doesn't conform to the prevailing orthodoxy being sought by the wailing classes......

[plugger66]

Just out of interest. And let me firstly say I am not a booer (I may have booed when BJ got his first touch for the Bombers against us, but it was one of those light-hearted theatrical boos ).

Anyhoo, if I was to go to the Boxing (which I wouldn’t because I dislike the “sport”) I may be tempted to boo one of the participants.

One of the participants who, like Goodes, is indigenous.

And, like Goodes, is outspoken.

Would I run the risk of being labelled racist if I were to boo Anthony Mundine? Because I really can’t stand that egocentric loudmouth

No because Mundine has said completely stupid things like the 9/11 stuff. Even the speech Goodes said at the AOTY award has been misrepresented. I think people should hear that again because they may have heard it incorrectly the first time. You can boo anyone you like if the reason makes sense. Im unsure the reasons make sense for Goodes but even if it isn't racism for the reason of booing it has now been requested to not boo so why would anyone do it unless he does something stupid on the day.

cool so if I boo Mundine I'm not racist..phew

Who said everyone who boos Goodes is racist? That would be plainly stupid.

[The Fireman]

Just out of interest. And let me firstly say I am not a booer (I may have booed when BJ got his first touch for the Bombers against us, but it was one of those light-hearted theatrical boos ).

Anyhoo, if I was to go to the Boxing (which I wouldn’t because I dislike the “sport”) I may be tempted to boo one of the participants.

One of the participants who, like Goodes, is indigenous.

And, like Goodes, is outspoken.

Would I run the risk of being labelled racist if I were to boo Anthony Mundine? Because I really can’t stand that egocentric loudmouth

No because Mundine has said completely stupid things like the 9/11 stuff. Even the speech Goodes said at the AOTY award has been misrepresented. I think people should hear that again because they may have heard it incorrectly the first time. You can boo anyone you like if the reason makes sense. Im unsure the reasons make sense for Goodes but even if it isn't racism for the reason of booing it has now been requested to not boo so why would anyone do it unless he does something stupid on the day.

cool so if I boo Mundine I'm not racist..phew

Who said everyone who boos Goodes is racist? That would be plainly stupid.

Phew

[SinCitySainter]

Just out of interest. And let me firstly say I am not a booer (I may have booed when BJ got his first touch for the Bombers against us, but it was one of those light-hearted theatrical boos ).

Anyhoo, if I was to go to the Boxing (which I wouldn’t because I dislike the “sport”) I may be tempted to boo one of the participants.

One of the participants who, like Goodes, is indigenous.

And, like Goodes, is outspoken.

Would I run the risk of being labelled racist if I were to boo Anthony Mundine? Because I really can’t stand that egocentric loudmouth

No because Mundine has said completely stupid things like the 9/11 stuff. Even the speech Goodes said at the AOTY award has been misrepresented. I think people should hear that again because they may have heard it incorrectly the first time. You can boo anyone you like if the reason makes sense. Im unsure the reasons make sense for Goodes but even if it isn't racism for the reason of booing it has now been requested to not boo so why would anyone do it unless he does something stupid on the day.

cool so if I boo Mundine I'm not racist..phew

Who said everyone who boos Goodes is racist? That would be plainly stupid.

In answer to your question Daniel Andrews said precisely that.

[SinCitySainter]

If Adam Goodes clocks one of our boys behind play, then by all means boo him as we would anyone else.

However, in the absence of any on field treachery, not only should we refrain from booing Adam Goodes, we should give him an ovation, before the game starts of course.

Actually, I agree with the first part and agree that we should not boo him.
However, we should not give him an ovation as that is singling him out because of he has been on the end of perceived racist treatment and not because of his abilities as a footballer.
We never gave Leigh Matthews an ovation before a game and he has been rated the greatest player ever.
The only time Adam Goodes should receive an ovation is after his last game when he retires as a sign of respect and when he goes around the MCG on Grand Final day.
To give him an ovation because he has been booed, whether the booing is due to racism or other reasons, is hypocritical in the extreme.
Because lets be completely honest here the booing may or may not be racially based but the ovation would certainly be so.
Giving him an ovation does nothing more than create a scenario whereby individuals can give themselves a big pat on the back and say "look how enlightened we are, we are cheering an indigenous man not booing him".

And why did Lenny deserve the reception from opposition players and supporters he received?
Point is, there is a good argument to say a dual Brownlow medalist deserves the respect of the football public for his service to the game in the last couple of games of his career.
It is not self serving, it is making a stand to give a champion a fitting send off.
We are allow to come together once and while for something that is bigger than football.
There is no way he has done enough to warrant the treatment he currently gets so however it started it has changed into something which clearly has a racist tone.
We are not talking about continuing to cheer for an indigenous man over his career just coz he's indigenous - it is one game and it is for a champion.
Is that too much to ask? Seriously???

If you read what I wrote I said that he deserved an ovation upon his retirement.
He has not announced his retirement at this stage I believe, so arranging an ovation for that is somewhat preemptive.
I agree that he does not deserve the treatment he is receiving but what he deserves is to be treated exactly the same as other players of his ilk.

[Austinnn]

I'd rather leave the final word on this to a very eloquent aboriginal man called Dallas Scott:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com. ... ol-of.html

Didn't anyone else read this?

Very powerful stuff. Great to hear from the more relevant perspective at last.

I heard Nova Peris. She said nothing like that. She seems pretty relevant to me.

Right - so an opinion from a full-blood aboriginal man, about purported racism towards a part aboriginal footballer, is to be dismissed out of hand because it doesn't conform to the prevailing orthodoxy being sought by the wailing classes......

The wailing classes: good one. Just like Johnny Howard's chattering classes for all dissenters. How about we call each other names cos that's the way forward. Just one to the keepers of the status quo there.

Everyone of all opinions can find someone more respected and eloquent to support their view.

I read this the article Satchmo linked to. I can see his point, that's his opinion. I agree with some bits, not with others.

But making his opinion gospel just because he is an aboriginal is just like saying all Aboriginal people feel the same, want the same, identify with aboriginality the same, identify with aussieness the same, essentially are the same.

Just like saying that Alan Jones and I want the same and feel the same because we're both white.

In other words, its racist!

So everyone can find an aboriginal voice to support their own views - loads of Aboriginal people don't give 2 s***s about land rights either, and are happy to mine the f*** out of their ancestors' land.

Back to Adam Goodes - a pampered prince perhaps but you keyboard warriors decrying him as a softcock will probably never get to feel how he felt or is feeling, living nice and safe in Australian suburbs and cities.

When you're booing him as is your freedom in a nice big stadium built on the back of players such as him, think of yourselves and your ancestors being treated like a mixture of animals and deviants just for being you.

The closest a white Australian could ever get to that experience is maybe moving to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but then you are not a native of the land do its still not quite as hurtful.