Round 22 Adam Goodes

[SENsei]

I'm not sure there is much to be gained by generalising and calling everyone a racist.

Did he do that? I dont think anyone has. What has been said is that there is a big problem with racism in Australia or even Australia is a racist country, not the same thing as saying everyone is racist at all.

Didn't Sydney, the AFL & AFLPA state that they thought the booing was racist? Personally, I think that is generalising the issue. They want people to stop doing it, I get that. But calling them all racists isn't going to help that. By association, my interpretation of those comments are that if you are booing Adam Goodes, you are a racist.

Is that not your reading of their comments?

[SENsei]

Racists don't like being called racists.

We are all racists to some degree. Scratch anyone deep enough and you will find my statement is true.

I will admit to racism when I am driving on the road near a Toyota Camry vehicle. Ageist also on the road too, truth be told. Other than that, I think I have a pretty clear conscience.

Who drives Toyoto Camrys?

It doesn't matter who drives them, they are a menace on the roads!

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm not sure there is much to be gained by generalising and calling everyone a racist.

Did he do that? I dont think anyone has. What has been said is that there is a big problem with racism in Australia or even Australia is a racist country, not the same thing as saying everyone is racist at all.

Didn't Sydney, the AFL & AFLPA state that they thought the booing was racist? Personally, I think that is generalising the issue. They want people to stop doing it, I get that. But calling them all racists isn't going to help that. By association, my interpretation of those comments are that if you are booing Adam Goodes, you are a racist.

Is that not your reading of their comments?

I think they said it has racist elements. Thats how Tom Harley put it anyway.

[Viking3]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

He was also found guilty of indecent assault. But I think he copped a much greater punishment over the years than others in that situation.
But how is that relevant here? What kind of bench-mark are we setting? 'Other people are assholes so let's be assholes too?"

It's booing FFS he is 35 years old. They boo Stevie J Hayden B WB supporters boo Riewoldt. There grown men getting thousands to play football just get on with it.

??? So because Milne got booed, Adam should get booed? It wasnt ok to boo MIlne. Two wrongs dont make a right.

And nobody boos Roo. They say 'Rooooooooooo'. Can we cut that crap out. Nobody boos Roo. FFS.

Con, Roo has been booed for years... we musta been going to different games.

He was seen as a sook and a protected species and overrated and a bit up himself by opposition supporters... Sound familiar?

Now imagine if he'd come out and done a (Germanic!?) war dance and complained about the booing and said it upsets him.

And plenty of players have been routinely booed over the years... of course they have, I used to be among those that booed Buckley's every possession. It's just (until now...) part of the silly theatre of the game.

But it's all irrelevant now, to boo goodes is entirely racist all the time, and to not condemn as such it is too.

Will be an ejectable offence by the time we play the swans.

That was about 15 years ago. I dont believe he has been booed in a long time. I believe you are just hearing the 'Roooooooooooo.'

As K pointed out, the roooo was to counter it.

And the closest I've come to fighting at the footy was with a filth supporter cheering when he was injured... He was far from alone and it was after they'd been booing and jeering him all game, as usual.

But it doesn't suit your narrative so let's just say it has only ever happened to 'goodesy'.

What?

1. I asked when the Roo incident happened - I very much doubt it was in the last few years.
2. It is also completely irrelevant to the narrative but way to miss the point spectacularly. A red herring. I think Old Mate and SuperDuper make the point quite well (above).
3. What exactly are you fighting for? The right to be an asshole?

Con,
I think you are missing the point that both Markp and Curly are making. They are not advocating that 2 wrongs make a right. It is more a case of why this behaviour (booing) is only now being highlighted?
Firstly, you are 100% wrong in saying Roo doesn't get booed! Just go to a Doggies game. They still despise him over his "diving" in the 2009 prelim when Harris/Lake bowled him over. It cost them the game and the premiership (so they believe). They boo him mercilessly each and every time we play them.
Secondly, Milne was inhumanely denigrated each and every week. Not just boo's but vitriol as well. Where were the AFL and do-gooder's then? Milne was expected to ignore it and get on with the game. He did this exceptionally well and I can't remember Mummy getting on the tele to demand they stop.
We are not wanting "the right to be assholes", we are wanting EVERYONE to be treated equally!!

[Saint wagga]

I said a little while ago in a different post somewhere that I thought Goodes' message on race relations in Aus had been lost in all the media stuff sometime ago because people had so come to dislike his public persona and I include on field persona in that, that basically, they stopped listening to the message and started listening to the man (which they/we don't like). Thats sad, because he is clearly a great footballer, seems popular amongst his teamates, doesn't seem universally embraced by the indigenous community, but then again the indigenous community isn't united in itself inherantly (but thats just my opinons based on casual observations as a punter).

I think the only way this situation can be turned around is if something like a cheer for Goodes if your for indigenous people sort of thing catches on. He was booed well before race was brought into it because of his onfield antics, but even a toning down of the booing (so it's not seen as as racist) wont suffice anymore for this to be healed. It needa a strong statement and separation of the message from the man IMO. Even if you don't like Goodes, if your for our indegenous people and againsy racism, then we have a choice to be proactive about that. Be it silence when he has the ball, or even something positive. Not so much because you like goodes or have a changedview of him as an individual, but because we want to mend any damage done with our indigenous brothers and sisters through this whole fiasco.

[asiu]

I would say that us as mere mug punters would make our judgement whether someone is a flog or not based on what we see publically. I don't know Adam Goodes at all, ...

i get that.
But why , do we behave like that.
Are we not 'modern man' ... some beacon of Rightousness in the Universes.

[saynta]

Rebecca Wilson said and I quote "We are all racists". , but hey she's from Sydney, so what would she know.

[markp]

Gaz, it's the foody and theatre, we cheer our heros and boo our villains.

Or we did.

[saynta]

Gaz, it's the foody and theatre, we cheer our heros and boo our villains.

Or we did.

That's pretty much what it was, and how this whole sorry mess started out. Then the press and arseholes like Robbo turned it into something else. It is now plainly bullying, with a racist element to it and with punters telling the AFL and the media, not to tell

them what not to do.

Since then the left has used it as their vehicle to denigrate this country and its citizens.

[Con Gorozidis]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

He was also found guilty of indecent assault. But I think he copped a much greater punishment over the years than others in that situation.
But how is that relevant here? What kind of bench-mark are we setting? 'Other people are assholes so let's be assholes too?"

It's booing FFS he is 35 years old. They boo Stevie J Hayden B WB supporters boo Riewoldt. There grown men getting thousands to play football just get on with it.

??? So because Milne got booed, Adam should get booed? It wasnt ok to boo MIlne. Two wrongs dont make a right.

And nobody boos Roo. They say 'Rooooooooooo'. Can we cut that crap out. Nobody boos Roo. FFS.

Con, Roo has been booed for years... we musta been going to different games.

He was seen as a sook and a protected species and overrated and a bit up himself by opposition supporters... Sound familiar?

Now imagine if he'd come out and done a (Germanic!?) war dance and complained about the booing and said it upsets him.

And plenty of players have been routinely booed over the years... of course they have, I used to be among those that booed Buckley's every possession. It's just (until now...) part of the silly theatre of the game.

But it's all irrelevant now, to boo goodes is entirely racist all the time, and to not condemn as such it is too.

Will be an ejectable offence by the time we play the swans.

That was about 15 years ago. I dont believe he has been booed in a long time. I believe you are just hearing the 'Roooooooooooo.'

As K pointed out, the roooo was to counter it.

And the closest I've come to fighting at the footy was with a filth supporter cheering when he was injured... He was far from alone and it was after they'd been booing and jeering him all game, as usual.

But it doesn't suit your narrative so let's just say it has only ever happened to 'goodesy'.

What?

1. I asked when the Roo incident happened - I very much doubt it was in the last few years.
2. It is also completely irrelevant to the narrative but way to miss the point spectacularly. A red herring. I think Old Mate and SuperDuper make the point quite well (above).
3. What exactly are you fighting for? The right to be an asshole?

Con,
I think you are missing the point that both Markp and Curly are making. They are not advocating that 2 wrongs make a right. It is more a case of why this behaviour (booing) is only now being highlighted?
Firstly, you are 100% wrong in saying Roo doesn't get booed! Just go to a Doggies game. They still despise him over his "diving" in the 2009 prelim when Harris/Lake bowled him over. It cost them the game and the premiership (so they believe). They boo him mercilessly each and every time we play them.
Secondly, Milne was inhumanely denigrated each and every week. Not just boo's but vitriol as well. Where were the AFL and do-gooder's then? Milne was expected to ignore it and get on with the game. He did this exceptionally well and I can't remember Mummy getting on the tele to demand they stop.
We are not wanting "the right to be assholes", we are wanting EVERYONE to be treated equally!!

I get their point. It is a crap point. It has been dealt with comprehensively. If you want 'everyone to be treated equally' then the logical extension of our argument is that 'Milne was booed so everyone should be booed like Milne'. Is that your point? If not why not? You want everyone to be 'treated equally 'and you use Milne as your reference point. I would also remind you that although I believe Milne was treated harshly, he did plead guilty to an indecent assault.

The issue is Adam is being booed systematically and it started when he became an outspoken person on anti-racism issues. If you cant get get that nuance I am not sure I can explain it to you.

[asiu]

Gaz, it's the foody and theatre, we cheer our heros and boo our villains.

Agreed.
... and its very purpose , is to allow the relief of held stress n tension by the people ,
so as it doesnt explode sideways out in the general community during the daily grind.
So basically , we are as the Romans.

Where will the 'sideways' explosion of simmering resentments express itself next
if it cant be done at the Colloseum?

[matrix]

what a complete load of friggin bollocks this mess has turned into...on both sides

[plugger66]

Rita,the voice of common sense, again

Only if you are as right wing as Andrew bolt. Didn't read it but im sure she wouldn't get it.

This thread is like SEN radio today. People don't get it. Anyway people have had their many games to boo Goodes. He has no requested we don't because he thinks it has racist overtones so lets do the right thing and don't boo the guy. None of us know how much this has effected him so lets do the right thing. It cant hurt anyone not to boo. That is one thing im sure of.

[IanRush]

what a complete load of friggin bollocks this mess has turned into...on both sides

Hi all,
My personal view on Goodes is that public opinion went again him after he publicly humiliated that 13 year old girl at the MCG, then got Australian of the year for it.


I think public opinion went against him after that. VicPol interviewed that girl for 2 hours over that issue.

If it was a racial issue, then Lazar Vidovic, Joe Misiti, Anthony Koutafidis, Nicky Winmar and so would have copped it. Winmar is admired for his 19933 Victoria Park stance. No one gives him grief on that.

People have a problem with Goodes, the bloke, as opposed to his historical bloodline.

[markp]

Gaz, it's the foody and theatre, we cheer our heros and boo our villains.

Agreed.
... and its very purpose , is to allow the relief of held stress n tension by the people ,
so as it doesnt explode sideways out in the general community during the daily grind.
So basically , we are as the Romans.

Where will the 'sideways' explosion of simmering resentments express itself next
if it cant be done at the Colloseum?

Maybe we can go into business marketing relocatable soundproof boo - booths?

Pay $2 and boo your head off for 5 minutes.

[plugger66]

what a complete load of friggin bollocks this mess has turned into...on both sides

Hi all,
My personal view on Goodes is that public opinion went again him after he publicly humiliated that 13 year old girl at the MCG, then got Australian of the year for it.


I think public opinion went against him after that. VicPol interviewed that girl for 2 hours over that issue.

If it was a racial issue, then Lazar Vidovic, Joe Misiti, Anthony Koutafidis, Nicky Winmar and so would have copped it. Winmar is admired for his 19933 Victoria Park stance. No one gives him grief on that.

People have a problem with Goodes, the bloke, as opposed to his historical bloodline.

Yes because as AOTY he cant speak out and he should just cop being called an ape.

[Con Gorozidis]

what a complete load of friggin bollocks this mess has turned into...on both sides

Hi all,
My personal view on Goodes is that public opinion went again him after he publicly humiliated that 13 year old girl at the MCG, then got Australian of the year for it.


I think public opinion went against him after that. VicPol interviewed that girl for 2 hours over that issue.

If it was a racial issue, then Lazar Vidovic, Joe Misiti, Anthony Koutafidis, Nicky Winmar and so would have copped it. Winmar is admired for his 19933 Victoria Park stance. No one gives him grief on that.

People have a problem with Goodes, the bloke, as opposed to his historical bloodline.

None of the people you mentioned were outspoken on race issues, except Winmar and the VP incident and lets not forget why he did that (Gilbert McAdam tells the story very well). Basically Gilbert and Nicky used to absolutely cop racial abuse mercilessly and non-stop when they went to VP.

[Austinnn]

Gaz, it's the foody and theatre, we cheer our heros and boo our villains.

Agreed.
... and its very purpose , is to allow the relief of held stress n tension by the people ,
so as it doesnt explode sideways out in the general community during the daily grind.
So basically , we are as the Romans.

Where will the 'sideways' explosion of simmering resentments express itself next
if it cant be done at the Colloseum?

Maybe we can go into business marketing relocatable soundproof boo - booths?

Pay $2 and boo your head off for 5 minutes.

Now I'm almost sad that the booing will stop. People need a release.

it's NOT about the booing!

[IanRush]

what a complete load of friggin bollocks this mess has turned into...on both sides

Hi all,
My personal view on Goodes is that public opinion went again him after he publicly humiliated that 13 year old girl at the MCG, then got Australian of the year for it.

I think public opinion went against him after that. VicPol interviewed that girl for 2 hours over that issue.

If it was a racial issue, then Lazar Vidovic, Joe Misiti, Anthony Koutafidis, Nicky Winmar and so would have copped it. Winmar is admired for his 19933 Victoria Park stance. No one gives him grief on that.

People have a problem with Goodes, the bloke, as opposed to his historical bloodline.

None of the people you mentioned were outspoken on race issues, except Winmar and the VP incident and lets not forget why he did that (Gilbert McAdam tells the story very well).

I'm using Euro-Australians and other Aboriginal-Australians in there to highlight a point that it's not about 'being racist', it's about many who have a specific issue with Adam Goodes, the man.

If it was racist, then all the Euro-Aussies and Winmar, O'Loughlin et al would be copping it too.

The commercial media, along withth AFL HQ, again, is steering everyone down a path that is wrong.

[matrix]

what a complete load of friggin bollocks this mess has turned into...on both sides

Hi all,
My personal view on Goodes is that public opinion went again him after he publicly humiliated that 13 year old girl at the MCG, then got Australian of the year for it.


I think public opinion went against him after that. VicPol interviewed that girl for 2 hours over that issue.

If it was a racial issue, then Lazar Vidovic, Joe Misiti, Anthony Koutafidis, Nicky Winmar and so would have copped it. Winmar is admired for his 19933 Victoria Park stance. No one gives him grief on that.

People have a problem with Goodes, the bloke, as opposed to his historical bloodline.

ill say i have no idea what tom harley is on about:
we dont think all people that boo are racists but believe it is racially motivated

errrrr,, whaaat?
so i boo
you believe im not a racist
but my motivation to boo is racism?

fmd
great work tom, you prob couldve worded that a bit better

and this shite on he might retire and didnt train this week, now im not saying he isnt hurt or anything like that before the pc police jump up and down and point the wangley old finger, but most people think he shouldve retired last year
so i feel this: im too hurt to play and might retire comment stuff is kinda just something to put into his basket so he has more ammo

do i boo
nahh
usually too busy biting finger nails and sitting there nervously praying for someone to kick the thing straight and muttering 'f****** gilbert under my breath when it comes off the side of the slipper
am i a racist?
nahh (but apparently everyone is according to some articles)

do i think people should boo?
i think people should do what they feel they need to do
boo and cop the ramifications , doesnt matter whether you agree with it or not...thats whats going to happen

this will only get messier imo

[markp]

Gaz, it's the foody and theatre, we cheer our heros and boo our villains.

Agreed.
... and its very purpose , is to allow the relief of held stress n tension by the people ,
so as it doesnt explode sideways out in the general community during the daily grind.
So basically , we are as the Romans.

Where will the 'sideways' explosion of simmering resentments express itself next
if it cant be done at the Colloseum?

Maybe we can go into business marketing relocatable soundproof boo - booths?

Pay $2 and boo your head off for 5 minutes.

Now I'm almost sad that the booing will stop. People need a release.

it's NOT about the booing!

Too late, I've already started sewing my lips together.

[Con Gorozidis]

The whole thing is just a cluster f*ck now.

[matrix]

and here comes the mess

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-29/b ... hris-scott

[IanRush]

[quote="
and this shite on he might retire and didnt train this week, now im not saying he isnt hurt or anything like that before the pc police jump up and down and point the wangley old finger, but most people think he shouldve retired last year
so i feel this: im too hurt to play and might retire comment stuff is kinda just something to put into his basket so he has more ammo

this will only get messier imo

Would be scary if Goodes retires hurt (to use the cricket analogy) then some smarta.r.s.e Laywer tries to sue the AFL under grounds that Goodes couldn’t do his job properly, as he was racially abused and can’t work, which is enshrined under the Racial Discrimination Act 1975. A Judge may see it as 'legal', but my god, what a strom it would produce.

Or the scarier issue is that the AFL, with Victoria Police, bring in tighter restrictions and surveillance and AFL games/general sporting events.

There is an agenda behind this.

[plugger66]

what a complete load of friggin bollocks this mess has turned into...on both sides

Hi all,
My personal view on Goodes is that public opinion went again him after he publicly humiliated that 13 year old girl at the MCG, then got Australian of the year for it.

I think public opinion went against him after that. VicPol interviewed that girl for 2 hours over that issue.

If it was a racial issue, then Lazar Vidovic, Joe Misiti, Anthony Koutafidis, Nicky Winmar and so would have copped it. Winmar is admired for his 19933 Victoria Park stance. No one gives him grief on that.

People have a problem with Goodes, the bloke, as opposed to his historical bloodline.

None of the people you mentioned were outspoken on race issues, except Winmar and the VP incident and lets not forget why he did that (Gilbert McAdam tells the story very well).

I'm using Euro-Australians and other Aboriginal-Australians in there to highlight a point that it's not about 'being racist', it's about many who have a specific issue with Adam Goodes, the man.

If it was racist, then all the Euro-Aussies and Winmar, O'Loughlin et al would be copping it too.

The commercial media, along withth AFL HQ, again, is steering everyone down a path that is wrong.

Seriously. Do you think it is that simple? Obviously. It amazes me. As you said it started because he didn't like being called an ape and rightly said something. He then was given AOTY and again spoke out for his people. Then people decided to boo him. As a AOTY I would rather he be honest than say things that suit white people and I certainly think he had a right to point out the person who called him an ape. There are some people now booing because they don't like a black person speaking their mind on ii=ssues. And now we have morons just going with the herd. Whether people think it is racial or not surely the best thing to do now is to stop.

And Rushie what path should people be steered down. This will be an interesting answer.