Round 22 Adam Goodes

[Austinnn]

I think most people are casually racist. I would even say that of myself if I was honest. You prejudge a group of black youths more than a white one if they are coming towards you down the street. You prejudge them as less reliable with out evidence of the individuals record, just look at football, we all think they have a magic touch but they are equally seen as being flighty and unreliable. The idea they have a magic touch with ball skills is a nice thing for people to believe true or not but the negative is a burden and there are a lot of others we attach to them.

You tend to accept muslims as sympathising with terrorists. Basically we all do it to some degree. It's pretty confronting to deal with and would rather it not be an issue. I don't think there are many good role models out there projecting a strong successful image. Goodes makes small gestures that unwittingly become huge. I'm not sure why he's at fault as much as the media who make it a story.

For sure. I am not high and mighty on this. I am definitely racist. I think its probably in our dna to fear and mistrust the 'other'. Thats why education is important. So we can reason with ourselves and say yeah nah, im being a bit racist here.

Great points. We ideally can recognise our own racism and stop it from controlling how we relate to others. I'm not in an ivory tower, I have racist thoughts now and then. My goal is not to be better than anybody, its just to be s better man and I can do that by recognising when I'm thinking or acting unfairly.

[SENsei]

I totally accept that the booing is bullying. I hope from now on that any player who feels they are being bullied can speak up and it will stop.

I could not accept that everyone who booed is a racist.

Some may be, but some may be weird sex perverts as well.

That is the way to tackle it, even the kids will understand about bullying.

Exactly, it's bullying.

So one Carlton mob got under his skin and he reacted, does bullying stop once asked to stop, no it gets worse.

For example I've seen in nba games the crowd bringing huge cutouts of a certain players ex-wife. If he reacted to those you can guarantee there would be a thousand of those things at the next game, it's not because the said player is black. It's just the hostile crowd factor mixed with bullying, if you think the same thing wouldn't happen the world over you are kidding yourself.

If you are referring to the war dance at the Carlton game, I think you'll find he was quoted as saying that he was not reacting to that specific crowd, but just wanting to pay tribute to an u16 team. In my opinion, that particular incident was blown well out of proportion.

[SENsei]

Can I ask if the boo-ing is race driven, then why are no other indigenious players being booed? (To my knowledge anyway).

I don't or wouldn't boo, but I think this is personality based not race based. In my opinion.

Because no other indigenous player speaks out and makes us feel uncomfortable.

Michael Long and Nicky Winmar were never booed. They were commended and respected.
They did more to raise awareness of racism in football than Adam Goodes has ever done.

They did it in an era where it was far more confronting than it is today. It is not as confronting today because of the stand they took and the work they did and continue to do.

Both fairly quiet blokes. Adam is more of a spokesman. Is that what makes peopele think he is an 'arrogant flog'? From all reports he is a real gentleman off field and great with kids etc etc.

I think Old Mate has made a good point. Even if it really is his personality - the fact a bunch of whities are booing the black public face of anti-racism is just very off now.

Not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know it is only a 'bunch of whities' doing the booing?

[markp]

Some are claiming it's only ever happened to goodes, that's not true, and that's entirely relevant.

Not sure where you asked when what happened.

[Con Gorozidis]

Some are claiming it's only ever happened to goodes, that's not true, and that's entirely relevant.

Not sure where you asked when what happened.

No. People are saying it became systematic with Goodes immediately following the AotY award and the 13yo girl incident and his becoming a spokesman on aboriginal issues.

Noone has said he is the only person in AFL history who gets booed.

[Austinnn]

Some are claiming it's only ever happened to goodes, that's not true, and that's entirely relevant.

Not sure where you asked when what happened.

No. People are saying it became systematic with Goodes immediately following the AotY award and the 13yo girl incident and his becoming a spokesman on aboriginal issues.

Noone has said he is the only person in AFL history who gets booed.

Correct. I haven't seen anyone silly enough to say other players don't get booed or hated.

But to this degree?

[markp]

If you haven't heard 'it only happens to goodes' you've not been listening.

And so now it's the 'degree' that's the problem?

If it was notched back 20% would that be ok?

[terry smith rules]

I have to say this is breaking my heart and making me angry at the same time.
Thanks to some wonderfully erudite and thought out posts from Con, Super and a few others, for flying the flag against this mob mentality, this is now just out and out bullying (there is no other description)

I have lived in Sydney for over 20 years and I used to go to the Swans all the time just so I could watch live footy. I saw Goodes play from day dot and straight away you knew he was a wonderful player. Just like we love watching (well I do) guys like Kouta and the Bont who are athletic get to contests impact games etc, out right stars. There is no doubt if Goodes played for a Melbourne club he would be considered a superstar player.

I am tempted to fly to Melbourne for round 22 so that I can be a Saints supporter who will say and act as a person in support of Goodes and not accept booing.

Don't give me this argument that I pay my money I have the right, that is cr*p. Booing is quite simply poor form, we hate it when they boo milne or roo or any other saint so why do you think it is ok to boo others.

Don't give me this argument that Goodes is a sniper, no one boos Fletcher or Harvey (proven track records in that area)

Don't give me this argument that he plays for free kicks, so do do dozens of players, does not look good but so be it

AH and here's the crux, don't give me this argument that no one boos other indigenous players. Ah well maybe that is because they do not stand up for what they believe as loudly. Are we not allowed to stand up and be respected for that.

People keep talking about his Australia Day speech, have you actually watched it? It's on youtube, you should!

The facts around the 13yo girl are now so blurred, go and revisit the news from that time as to how Goodes actually handled himself and the situation, it is vastly different as to how people are now retelling it.

Finally to the boo supporters ask yourself this question, in 20 years do you want to be living with the fact that your booing helped drive a person away from their job, passion and life

fqf

[amusingname]

I have to say this is breaking my heart and making me angry at the same time.
Thanks to some wonderfully erudite and thought out posts from Con, Super and a few others, for flying the flag against this mob mentality, this is now just out and out bullying (there is no other description)

I have lived in Sydney for over 20 years and I used to go to the Swans all the time just so I could watch live footy. I saw Goodes play from day dot and straight away you knew he was a wonderful player. Just like we love watching (well I do) guys like Kouta and the Bont who are athletic get to contests impact games etc, out right stars. There is no doubt if Goodes played for a Melbourne club he would be considered a superstar player.

I am tempted to fly to Melbourne for round 22 so that I can be a Saints supporter who will say and act as a person in support of Goodes and not accept booing.

Don't give me this argument that I pay my money I have the right, that is cr*p. Booing is quite simply poor form, we hate it when they boo milne or roo or any other saint so why do you think it is ok to boo others.

Don't give me this argument that Goodes is a sniper, no one boos Fletcher or Harvey (proven track records in that area)

Don't give me this argument that he plays for free kicks, so do do dozens of players, does not look good but so be it

AH and here's the crux, don't give me this argument that no one boos other indigenous players. Ah well maybe that is because they do not stand up for what they believe as loudly. Are we not allowed to stand up and be respected for that.

People keep talking about his Australia Day speech, have you actually watched it? It's on youtube, you should!

The facts around the 13yo girl are now so blurred, go and revisit the news from that time as to how Goodes actually handled himself and the situation, it is vastly different as to how people are now retelling it.

Finally to the boo supporters ask yourself this question, in 20 years do you want to be living with the fact that your booing helped drive a person away from their job, passion and life

fqf

Very true, just posted this in the other thread, from the day after the incident with the young girl: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-25/g ... me/4712772

[saynta]

I have to say this is breaking my heart and making me angry at the same time.
Thanks to some wonderfully erudite and thought out posts from Con, Super and a few others, for flying the flag against this mob mentality, this is now just out and out bullying (there is no other description)

I have lived in Sydney for over 20 years and I used to go to the Swans all the time just so I could watch live footy. I saw Goodes play from day dot and straight away you knew he was a wonderful player. Just like we love watching (well I do) guys like Kouta and the Bont who are athletic get to contests impact games etc, out right stars. There is no doubt if Goodes played for a Melbourne club he would be considered a superstar player.

I am tempted to fly to Melbourne for round 22 so that I can be a Saints supporter who will say and act as a person in support of Goodes and not accept booing.

Don't give me this argument that I pay my money I have the right, that is cr*p. Booing is quite simply poor form, we hate it when they boo milne or roo or any other saint so why do you think it is ok to boo others.

Don't give me this argument that Goodes is a sniper, no one boos Fletcher or Harvey (proven track records in that area)

Don't give me this argument that he plays for free kicks, so do do dozens of players, does not look good but so be it

AH and here's the crux, don't give me this argument that no one boos other indigenous players. Ah well maybe that is because they do not stand up for what they believe as loudly. Are we not allowed to stand up and be respected for that.

People keep talking about his Australia Day speech, have you actually watched it? It's on youtube, you should!

The facts around the 13yo girl are now so blurred, go and revisit the news from that time as to how Goodes actually handled himself and the situation, it is vastly different as to how people are now retelling it.

Finally to the boo supporters ask yourself this question, in 20 years do you want to be living with the fact that your booing helped drive a person away from their job, passion and life

fqf

Great post. It is as BJ stated, just outright bullying now. And no, I would hate to see Goodes driven out of the game. The hurt being felt by Goodes and his family can be sheeted home to bullies. Whether they are all racist or not is another question, but they are definitely bullies in my opinion.

[SENsei]

I have to say this is breaking my heart and making me angry at the same time.
Thanks to some wonderfully erudite and thought out posts from Con, Super and a few others, for flying the flag against this mob mentality, this is now just out and out bullying (there is no other description)

I have lived in Sydney for over 20 years and I used to go to the Swans all the time just so I could watch live footy. I saw Goodes play from day dot and straight away you knew he was a wonderful player. Just like we love watching (well I do) guys like Kouta and the Bont who are athletic get to contests impact games etc, out right stars. There is no doubt if Goodes played for a Melbourne club he would be considered a superstar player.

I am tempted to fly to Melbourne for round 22 so that I can be a Saints supporter who will say and act as a person in support of Goodes and not accept booing.

Don't give me this argument that I pay my money I have the right, that is cr*p. Booing is quite simply poor form, we hate it when they boo milne or roo or any other saint so why do you think it is ok to boo others.

Don't give me this argument that Goodes is a sniper, no one boos Fletcher or Harvey (proven track records in that area)

Don't give me this argument that he plays for free kicks, so do do dozens of players, does not look good but so be it

AH and here's the crux, don't give me this argument that no one boos other indigenous players. Ah well maybe that is because they do not stand up for what they believe as loudly. Are we not allowed to stand up and be respected for that.

People keep talking about his Australia Day speech, have you actually watched it? It's on youtube, you should!

The facts around the 13yo girl are now so blurred, go and revisit the news from that time as to how Goodes actually handled himself and the situation, it is vastly different as to how people are now retelling it.

Finally to the boo supporters ask yourself this question, in 20 years do you want to be living with the fact that your booing helped drive a person away from their job, passion and life

fqf

Well written and position well stated.

I am not a boo-er and have only ever jeered a few players. I save my venom for the umpires mostly!

My position though on Adam Goodes is that I don't believe that the entire booing epidemic is solely racially driven. I see him as very good footballer, who as you say would be a star in Victoria, like Pavlich I guess. Not fully recognised in Vic. But I still cannot reconcile myself that everyone that is booing Goodes is actually doing it because of his race.

I think Anthony Mundine is a bit of a dill for what he says, not because of his race. Same with Bernard Tomic. Same with Robert Allenby. I respect Goodes as a footballer and was at the GF last year where he was jeered and I didn't get it. I still don't get the whole booing, but I still cannot believe that we have a group mentality who are booing because of the colour of his skin.

I don't know of a solution to stop it however.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I have to say, I have had a different position to many on here.

I'll just say one thing more.

For whatever supposed crimes Adam Goodes has done, he has paid for them in spades.

Time for it to stop. I don't want to hear him booed anymore.

[Austinnn]

If you haven't heard 'it only happens to goodes' you've not been listening.

And so now it's the 'degree' that's the problem?

If it was notched back 20% would that be ok?

Mark, it only happens to this degree to Goodes. That is what people are saying. Get it?

And yes, if it were notched back to the kind of booing Boomer Harvey or Chris Judd or Hayden Ballentyne gets that would be better.

But as I said, the booing isn't even the real issue.

[asiu]

the word 'hate' is being used as if 'we' are normal balanced fair human beings
when involving ourselves in that sort of energetic output.
... who has the right to judge another as a flog in the first place.
... accepted & executed judgemental behavour seems to be the source issue ... expressing itself in this instance as a collective thumbs down on a Soul (just like u or me) who deserves being fed to the lions.)

[Austinnn]

Another article attempting to confront this issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... t-stack-up

This is a pretty neat analysis of the situation.

[dragit]

Racists don't like being called racists.

[markp]

If you haven't heard 'it only happens to goodes' you've not been listening.

And so now it's the 'degree' that's the problem?

If it was notched back 20% would that be ok?

Mark, it only happens to this degree to Goodes. That is what people are saying. Get it?

And yes, if it were notched back to the kind of booing Boomer Harvey or Chris Judd or Hayden Ballentyne gets that would be better.

But as I said, the booing isn't even the real issue.

No it's not the issue, I agree.

The afl doesn't care about the issue.

The afl just want to manage this away and fix a bad look.

The same racist element (I think small, others think all) will be at the games they'll just not boo, along with everyone else who booed for other reasons but won't now either.

I've said I like goodes, great player, seems like a decent bloke, I've got no issue with any if his politics either... My only issue is that painting this as entirely racist is bs, and simplistic, all done so it can be simply managed. The booing is racist, the booing must be stopped. Job done, bounce the ball.

[Austinnn]

the word 'hate' is being used as if 'we' are normal balanced fair human beings
when involving ourselves in that sort of energetic output.
... who has the right to judge another as a flog in the first place.
... accepted & executed judgemental behavour seems to be the source issue ... expressing itself in this instance as a collective thumbs down on a Soul (just like u or me) who deserves being fed to the lions.)

True and poetic. That is it in a nutshell.

Who are we to judge one another?

Bunk is right, everyone saying the booing should stop is right.

But until we confront why it started in an honest way, it will keep happening.

[saynta]

Racists don't like being called racists.

We are all racists to some degree. Scratch anyone deep enough and you will find my statement is true.

[SENsei]

the word 'hate' is being used as if 'we' are normal balanced fair human beings
when involving ourselves in that sort of energetic output.
... who has the right to judge another as a flog in the first place.
... accepted & executed judgemental behavour seems to be the source issue ... expressing itself in this instance as a collective thumbs down on a Soul (just like u or me) who deserves being fed to the lions.)

I would say that us as mere mug punters would make our judgement whether someone is a flog or not based on what we see publically. I don't know Adam Goodes at all, other than what I see in the media and in football. I did have a discussion yesterday in the office amongst men & women about him, and there was a common theme that they didn't like him as a person (the public one they know) but thought he was a great footballer. Out of that group of people, his race did not come up in the conversation.

I hear the comments though about him standing up for his beliefs and more power to him for that. I'm not sure there is much to be gained by generalising and calling everyone a racist though.

[SENsei]

Racists don't like being called racists.

We are all racists to some degree. Scratch anyone deep enough and you will find my statement is true.

I will admit to racism when I am driving on the road near a Toyota Camry vehicle. Ageist also on the road too, truth be told. Other than that, I think I have a pretty clear conscience.

[Con Gorozidis]

Racists don't like being called racists.

We are all racists to some degree. Scratch anyone deep enough and you will find my statement is true.

I will admit to racism when I am driving on the road near a Toyota Camry vehicle. Ageist also on the road too, truth be told. Other than that, I think I have a pretty clear conscience.

Camry Crows rage?

[Austinnn]

I'm not sure there is much to be gained by generalising and calling everyone a racist.

Did he do that? I dont think anyone has. What has been said is that there is a big problem with racism in Australia or even Australia is a racist country, not the same thing as saying everyone is racist at all.

[SENsei]

Racists don't like being called racists.

We are all racists to some degree. Scratch anyone deep enough and you will find my statement is true.

I will admit to racism when I am driving on the road near a Toyota Camry vehicle. Ageist also on the road too, truth be told. Other than that, I think I have a pretty clear conscience.

Camry Crows rage?

Potentially! I have been known to chuck a crow call or two at a Camry driver!!

[saynta]

Racists don't like being called racists.

We are all racists to some degree. Scratch anyone deep enough and you will find my statement is true.

I will admit to racism when I am driving on the road near a Toyota Camry vehicle. Ageist also on the road too, truth be told. Other than that, I think I have a pretty clear conscience.

Who drives Toyoto Camrys? I thought Volvo drivers were the ones to avoid. Oh and the ones with little fish silhouettes on the back of their cars.