Round 22 Adam Goodes

[asiu]

But if they all walked off the crowd would start booing wouldn't they?

We shall see ,
Stunned silence more likely.

[Austinnn]

Don't give me the try and live a day in his shoes because trust me if would be a piece of piss.

Hahahaha! Big words!

[Con Gorozidis]

It won't get as far as Rd 22, thats for sure, but if it does and our fans boo him, I have no problems if all the players walk off.

[Con Gorozidis]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

He was also found guilty of indecent assault. But I think he copped a much greater punishment over the years than others in that situation.
But how is that relevant here? What kind of bench-mark are we setting? 'Other people are assholes so let's be assholes too?"

It's booing FFS he is 35 years old. They boo Stevie J Hayden B WB supporters boo Riewoldt. There grown men getting thousands to play football just get on with it.

??? So because Milne got booed, Adam should get booed? It wasnt ok to boo MIlne. Two wrongs dont make a right.

And nobody boos Roo. They say 'Rooooooooooo'. Can we cut that crap out. Nobody boos Roo. FFS.

[SuperDuper]

Can I ask if the boo-ing is race driven, then why are no other indigenious players being booed? (To my knowledge anyway).

If it is not race driven, why is Goodes the only player systematically boo-ed?
Is he really the only player to be considered a "sniper"? From what i can see, he has a better tribunal record than many other players in the league.
is it because he is "plays for free kicks"? Well, do people systematically boo Joel Selwood? i'v seen Lonie play for a few this year. Should we start boo-ing him?

this is mob mentality and anyone whio thinks this does not have a racist undercurrent, is kidding themselves.

[SuperDuper]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

True

I'd rather be called a " scum sucking gorilla" than a " rapist "

Come on. There is no moral equilivence

Calling Milne a rapist was reprehensible but it had nothing to do with race.

Calling Goodes a big ape has racist connotations that black people aren't humans and are less evolved than other humans.

The Nazis used that to kill 20 million slavs . Untermensch was the term - meaning less than man. Calling someone a big ape is the same concept.

Racist comments are not on no matter what. Booing for being a flog no matter what race is personal choice. I don't boo I don't yell abuse either but some do. Some people even abuse there own players each to there own.

yes, each person can boo and each to their own.

But you miss the point. This is not a matter of each person to their own. This has become mob mentality.
Only the naive think that this is nothing to do with racism.

[Con Gorozidis]

George Brandis 'people have a right to be bigots' has been taken literally by some.

[Austinnn]

Love this idea that anyone is being denied their rights to be an arsehole!

Knock yourselves out, but don't you dare assume you are beyond reproach and don't deny us our rights to call you on it.

A couple of people have just asked politely for you not to do it. If you do do it, then you deserve to be held accountable for your actions, like anyone else.

[plugger66]

Imagine if he was gay as well.
Fmd the threads on all footy sites would make the Internet's explode

Probably explains why no current AFL player has ever come out of the closet.

Curly: how about you try a day in Goodes' shoes? Get over it? You can't even get over umpiring decisions, let alone being openly hated by large crowds. Thought you were all about fairness?

Why aren't they booing other indigenous player? Maybe it's because they don't behave like Goodes and then hide behind it. Don't give me the try and live a day in his shoes because trust me if would be a piece of piss.

How does he behave? All uppity and proud? Cant have that can we.

Last time he looked he wasnt out drinking or getting in fights, wasnt taking (or dealing) drugs, beating women, urinating on them. Last time I looked he was behaving like a responsible adult. What is this supposed 'behaviour' we find so bad?

It's his on field behaviour. The sniping the going in feet first the diving the acting for frees. He has been protected I've always believed it was the Sydney AFL love child thing that protected him not his colour.

How many goes do you get to say why people boo Goodes. Now you say this even though the booing started after the 13 year old girl incident and his speech at the AOTY awards. Then you say its the speech. Lets face it you aren't even sure and then you compare the booing to other players. If that was fact then it would have been brought up. You are all over the place.

[Old Mate]

Dear me, never has there been a clearer case of people deliberately missing the point than some on here.


To even imagine that a white person being called an Alpaca in Australia is the same as a Black person being called an ape. That is pure ignorance of the issue. I'm not hysterical for pointing that out, am I? I can quite calmly explain the difference if you really need to be told. I'd rather not. How about just for starters, consider the years and years of downward dehumanising black people, is some cases using the exact same term. Compare that to the meagre history of dehumanising of white people.

To even bother getting worked up about the difference between ape and gorilla. Who let Karl Pilkington on here?

The rest, just mind blowing the lengths of denial people will go to to avoid confronting the truth.

No wonder Australia is in need of people like Adam Goodes today. I hope after he retires other black players are brave enough to risk the treatment he got to try and shine a light on the Shameful side of what many other countries consider a paradise.

Here, here. Much better than I could have ever put it. Well done Austinnn.

Pluggs, you gained a lot of my respect in this thread.

Probably best just to close this thread now IMO.

My inference was to point out that we can be targeted and upset in so many ways no matter what the colour of your skin , immediately I was set upon by the forum guru.
The fact that Plugger gained respect in OLd Mates eyes is a fair indication of how skewed this thread has been and how easily some jump on others at the slightest hint of impropriety .

This type of reaction could turn things for the worse.

Firey you're a good egg in my books but I reckon you are a bit off on this topic, as are many. Btw my opinion isn't full proof either.

Would I have a beer with Goodesy? Nope just not the kind of bloke I associate with. Do I respect him. Yup.

The fact is, Goodes is the face of anti racism in Australia. He does a s*** load for the aboriginal community especially young indigenous males and has a real positive impact on many lives. He's a role model. The positives far our way the negatives with regard to Adam.

Now, picture the outspoken face of anti racism playing footy and a large section of crowds, none which would include any aboriginals (i reckon so anyway), the majority of which are Caucasian Australians (assumption again but pretty good evidence to suggest this) booing this bloke who is the face of anti racism. It doesn't look good.

Whether we like it or not, perception is reality. You gotta admit, it looks racist with these sections of white Aussies booing a black bloke especially when you take into account what he represents.

I reckon even the dumbest bogans would realise it doesn't look good....but they continue to boo "cos it's their right and Goodes is a s*** bloke", right?

Not fact but my opinion: racist Aussies are using the s*** bloke analogy as a disguise to be racist towards Goodes. Not all are a racist btw.

Continued opinion: a large portion of white Aussies don't like the fact that Goodes is outspoken about his views, which mainly extend to Australia being behind the eight all with regards to racism in a 1st world country.

With regard to ape vs alpaca argument. I refer to Gringo and Austinnn's posts. The difference is rather simple is easy to understand why one analogy is racist.

Cheers.

[SENsei]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

True

I'd rather be called a " scum sucking gorilla" than a " rapist "

Come on. There is no moral equilivence

Calling Milne a rapist was reprehensible but it had nothing to do with race.

Calling Goodes a big ape has racist connotations that black people aren't humans and are less evolved than other humans.

The Nazis used that to kill 20 million slavs . Untermensch was the term - meaning less than man. Calling someone a big ape is the same concept.

Racist comments are not on no matter what. Booing for being a flog no matter what race is personal choice. I don't boo I don't yell abuse either but some do. Some people even abuse there own players each to there own.

yes, each person can boo and each to their own.

But you miss the point. This is not a matter of each person to their own. This has become mob mentality.
Only the naive think that this is nothing to do with racism.

I may be naive. Very possibly so. I still think there is something specific about Goodes's personality rather than the colour of his skin. I'm not a hateful type of person. Some of my favourite players over my lifetime from opposition clubs have been hated by others (Brereton, Rhys-Jones, etc) but I would like to think that in this day and age, that sure racism isn't at the core root of this issue. In our multi-cultural society, I would hope we are much bigger than that. Other players from different races, and the same race as Goodes, are not systematically booed, so I believe it must be something specific to Goodes himself.

And I believe it goes past the colour of his skin. I have a good make who is indigenous and I asked him last night what he thought. He also thought it might be part racism, which we discussed, but he also said it didn't help that Goodes comes across as a 'flog'. His words.

Anyway, when it is all said and done, it's just not right for this booing to continue and I hope it stops point blank now.

[Life Long Saint]

Can I ask if the boo-ing is race driven, then why are no other indigenious players being booed? (To my knowledge anyway).

I don't or wouldn't boo, but I think this is personality based not race based. In my opinion.

Because no other indigenous player speaks out and makes us feel uncomfortable.

Michael Long and Nicky Winmar were never booed. They were commended and respected.
They did more to raise awareness of racism in football than Adam Goodes has ever done.

They did it in an era where it was far more confronting than it is today. It is not as confronting today because of the stand they took and the work they did and continue to do.

[saintspremiers]

At first I was happy to hear Goodes may retire immediately, but if his inclusion is bringing down Sydney and preventing them from playing well then I want him to play. The AFL love Sydney, so Mike Fitzpatrick will possibly pressure Gillian to invoke some extreme anti-booing code so the protected one can feel safe to play again and Sydney aren't adversely effected.

[markp]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

He was also found guilty of indecent assault. But I think he copped a much greater punishment over the years than others in that situation.
But how is that relevant here? What kind of bench-mark are we setting? 'Other people are assholes so let's be assholes too?"

It's booing FFS he is 35 years old. They boo Stevie J Hayden B WB supporters boo Riewoldt. There grown men getting thousands to play football just get on with it.

??? So because Milne got booed, Adam should get booed? It wasnt ok to boo MIlne. Two wrongs dont make a right.

And nobody boos Roo. They say 'Rooooooooooo'. Can we cut that crap out. Nobody boos Roo. FFS.

Con, Roo has been booed for years... we musta been going to different games.

He was seen as a sook and a protected species and overrated and a bit up himself by opposition supporters... Sound familiar?

Now imagine if he'd come out and done a (Germanic!?) war dance and complained about the booing and said it upsets him.

And plenty of players have been routinely booed over the years... of course they have, I used to be among those that booed Buckley's every possession. It's just (until now...) part of the silly theatre of the game.

But it's all irrelevant now, to boo goodes is entirely racist all the time, and to not condemn as such it is too.

Will be an ejectable offence by the time we play the swans.

[markp]

At first I was happy to hear Goodes may retire immediately, but if his inclusion is bringing down Sydney and preventing them from playing well then I want him to play. The AFL love Sydney, so Mike Fitzpatrick will possibly pressure Gillian to invoke some extreme anti-booing code so the protected one can feel safe to play again and Sydney aren't adversely effected.

He won't retire.

[SuperDuper]

People can keep repeating "he is a flog" as many times as they like.

But the fact is, there are far bigger flogs in tha AFL, including people convicted of violent crimes.
There are also many players who have worse records of on-field dirty play

So.. you realliy think that it is a co-incidence that the only person who is boo-ed consistently happens to be the guy who speaks out for Aboriginal peoples and their issues?

Some great cosmic co-incidence that such person is considered the biggest "flog" in the AFL and deserving of special treatment by the public because of his clear flogdom compared to the rest of the AFL players?

is it really so clear from his on and off field behaviour that he is a bigger flog than anyone else in the AFL? And each individual in the crowd recognised this on their own and made their own individual decision that he is the person in the AFL that deserves to be boo-ed? Wow, lo and behold everyone else is booing as well, who would have thought?

it is mob mentality and is underpinned by racism.
Boo-boys can deny this as much as they want.

This is how racism works people.

Dont join the mob. Stand up to them and tell them it is not right.

[mullet]

why do you talk down to everyone?

I understand how being called an ape is upsetting to Adam. I understand how he regards it as a racist taunt.

Just because people don't agree with you does not mean that they are in denial.

You think that everyone who boos adam is racially motivated to do so. I don't believe that everyone who boos him is doing it to be racist.

I really take exception to people making out that every Australian is racist and that we are some how hiding a dirty secret.

I think its really sad that you are so ashamed of our country. Oh and I do consider our country a paradise.

FFS. I don't mean to talk down to everyone, apologies if that's how it reads.

Plenty of people disagree with me, THEY ARE NOT ALL in denial. Some are, some aren't. In this particular case, this situation calls for an honest look at the issue and that is difficult to do with this issue.

Plenty of Australians ARE NOT racist.

We deal with generalisations a lot here to save time, please don't read SO literally.

You probably wrote that post before my last one, so by now you'll realise that I don't think everyone who boos Goodes is racist. Plenty are though, and you're kidding yourself to think otherwise.

Whether or not you yourself are racist, plenty of Australian are. No, I don't have statistics. No, ok I can't even say that it's a majority. So go ahead and shoot my argument down. You can look around you and decide for yourself. But what you have written so far in these two threads suggests that you don't even recognise it when you see it, apologies if that's not the case.

I think it's sad that I'm ashamed of Australian ignorance and racism too. Australia and Australians have a hell of a lot going for them, but nothing is perfect. I'm glad you consider it a paradise. I'd agree that the country itself definitely is. Do you think that Australian society is a paradise? Without being patronising, might I suggest that's based on your experience in Australia, and your level of empathy for the put upon? Ask an Aboriginal kid who grew up in pre-gentrified Redfern or other such places if he agrees with you.

I moved to Australia as a teenager, my family still live there and I love the place and would like to live there now. I still can't deny that there are some ugly things about it, as there are everywhere.

Look Mullet, I'm only giving my opinion as my signature suggests. I'm not forcing you to agree. I'm sad that you feel so defensive about what I write, or feel that I'm talking down to you. I'm really not, just trying to relate to you person to person, as an equal.

In your 6th paragraph are you saying that I probably don't realise that I am racist. Can you explain to me how I have been racist and how you seem to know me so well. If you are calling me an ignorant racist you are in need of help. You know nothing of me or my life . God help us all if we now can be accused of being something on the grounds that you don't realise it your self. But yeah thanks Austinn must be awesome in that ivory tower of yours looking down on all us ignorant fools

[The Fireman]

Firey you're a good egg in my books but I reckon you are a bit off on this topic, as are many. Btw my opinion isn't full proof either.

Would I have a beer with Goodesy? Nope just not the kind of bloke I associate with. Do I respect him. Yup.

The fact is, Goodes is the face of anti racism in Australia. He does a s*** load for the aboriginal community especially young indigenous males and has a real positive impact on many lives. He's a role model. The positives far our way the negatives with regard to Adam.

Now, picture the outspoken face of anti racism playing footy and a large section of crowds, none which would include any aboriginals (i reckon so anyway), the majority of which are Caucasian Australians (assumption again but pretty good evidence to suggest this) booing this bloke who is the face of anti racism. It doesn't look good.

Whether we like it or not, perception is reality. You gotta admit, it looks racist with these sections of white Aussies booing a black bloke especially when you take into account what he represents.

I reckon even the dumbest bogans would realise it doesn't look good....but they continue to boo "cos it's their right and Goodes is a s*** bloke", right?

Not fact but my opinion: racist Aussies are using the s*** bloke analogy as a disguise to be racist towards Goodes. Not all are a racist btw.

Continued opinion: a large portion of white Aussies don't like the fact that Goodes is outspoken about his views, which mainly extend to Australia being behind the eight all with regards to racism in a 1st world country.

With regard to ape vs alpaca argument. I refer to Gringo and Austinnn's posts. The difference is rather simple is easy to understand why one analogy is racist.

Cheers.

I maybe be a bit hard boiled but I saw Michael Long as equally outspoken and was revered for his actions. I fully understand where you are coming from and of course there is a racial element but I believe that to be a small part of this whole dilemma.

[saynta]

Can I ask if the boo-ing is race driven, then why are no other indigenious players being booed? (To my knowledge anyway).

I don't or wouldn't boo, but I think this is personality based not race based. In my opinion.

Raced based or not, it is certainly bullying. The bully mob mentality has taken over and it has to stop.

[perfectionist]

...it is mob mentality and is underpinned by racism.
Boo-boys can deny this as much as they want.

This is how racism works people.

Dont join the mob. Stand up to them and tell them it is not right.

Yep. Well said.

The latest justification that is being repeated endlessly is, "People have a right to boo, you know." Now, where have I heard similar phraseology before. How about this one too, "I'm going to boo because to do otherwise would be political correctness gone mad."

[spert]

If you have ever played footy in teams with aboriginal players as I have in years past, then you know very well the type of abuse these guys have to put up with due to the fact that they aboriginal and black, they are not getting abused for anything other than that. I used to shake my head in amazement with the blatant racist crap I heard coming from over the fence in some games- from men, women and even their children. It still goes on, and I have even heard it in soccer matches. If you reckon Australia is not racist then you are kidding yourselves..though Victoria is not too bad compared other states. I reckon if Goodes gets booed again, then players from both teams should show some balls and just stop playing and walk over to the crowd and stare at them.

[satchmo]

So booing should be banned?

[gringo]

If you have ever played footy in teams with aboriginal players as I have in years past, then you know very well the type of abuse these guys have to put up with due to the fact that they aboriginal and black, they are not getting abused for anything other than that. I used to shake my head in amazement with the blatant racist crap I heard coming from over the fence in some games- from men, women and even their children. It still goes on, and I have even heard it in soccer matches. If you reckon Australia is not racist then you are kidding yourselves..though Victoria is not too bad compared other states. I reckon if Goodes gets booed again, then players from both teams should show some balls and just stop playing and walk over to the crowd and stare at them.

I used to go to the odd NSL game and I was at a Melbourne Knights game where they threw bananas and chanted ni%$#,ni%$#, ni^%$ when one of their own players touched the ball who happened to be black. I hear it from Saints fans. Its out there.

Imagine if a gay player came out and he happened to be a bit of an arsehole on field, he also gets made a political figure just because he happened to come out in public. The crowd boos him. It might be because he's political, it might be because he's an a hole but people are going to assume its got an element of homophobia attached to it. All the Im not racists might want the right but should also acknowledge that it comes across differently to what they imagine.

[gringo]

If you have ever played footy in teams with aboriginal players as I have in years past, then you know very well the type of abuse these guys have to put up with due to the fact that they aboriginal and black, they are not getting abused for anything other than that. I used to shake my head in amazement with the blatant racist crap I heard coming from over the fence in some games- from men, women and even their children. It still goes on, and I have even heard it in soccer matches. If you reckon Australia is not racist then you are kidding yourselves..though Victoria is not too bad compared other states. I reckon if Goodes gets booed again, then players from both teams should show some balls and just stop playing and walk over to the crowd and stare at them.

Remember Alan Mc Alister and his racism towards Winmar. That was the norm 20 years ago.

[markp]

So booing should be banned?

If we're not capable of being anything other than absolutist then it has to be.

Booing is bullying.

What if you boo someone who's gay and they think that's why you're doing it? That's homophobia. Maybe Razor Ray is gay. Can't boo umpires either. How else could Ray ever feel comfortable coming out?

And let's face it, the other 70 aborigines playing at the moment are of the piss-weak 'good little aborigine' mold anyway... we should respect them less than goodes (and maybe be booing them instead).

Like I said... this can only get more nuts (but being an absolutist is certainly easier than the alternative, and kinda fun!)

And before the absolutists get their pitchforks and torches out, yes I am joking (if that's still allowed).