What are the reasons behind the lower supporter base?

[Locals322]

I live a stone throw from Moorabbin Oval. I've met a heap of St Kilda players everywhere from Southland to Elephant Wheelbarrow to footy clinics.
But although I've always had an awareness of the Saints I always can't quite manage to explain why their membership and crowds are so very low?
Do people from St Kilda to Frankston just not like Football?

Is it purely based on 'Success' I guess Richmond would be perhaps an exception but they have also suffered for a very long time with no success. And they'll double St Kilda supporters anytime anywhere?

Adding to this from 2005 to basically 2011 we had a very good team and a real shot and premierships
And still...still no fans? Is it the area? The history?

On the positive side we’ve survived many lean years and close calls. Moving forward I think this club will always be around…The Dogs & North are definitely behind us in terms of memberships, overall fans and finances. If anyone is going it’s them.

[saint-stu]

Actually we are way behind the dogs and north in members at the moment.

[wolfpup]

we are the highest finals crowd drawing side in vfl/afl history on average
we are the 3rd highest finals crowd drawing team since the afl expansion on average, just behind hawthorn and collingwood

when we were flying we had more members than richmond, but things have changed since then i guess.

that being said, am not sure why we dont have a solid 40k membership, even when we are rebuilding, i would hope as we head up the ladder in the next year or so that we can hit the 45k to 50k membership mark

[Con Gorozidis]

Without a shadow of a doubt it is based on success, in my opinion.

How many kids jumped on the Hawks and Bombers in the 80s? Thousands. Lots of kids got on the Blues in the 80s as well and probably again in the 90s.
Pies fans have been growing up from the gutters since 2010 (and 1990). They already had a large following from the earlier successes.

When it comes to footy success breeds success. Kids without a family club will get on a successful club and then pass it on to their kids.

It is like people in Melbourne who claim they go for Man Utd and Liverpool. People just get attracted to success.

If/When we win our next one, a whole new generation of Saints fans will emerge from the wood-work.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Getting continually gutted -- one win from seven GFs (eight if you count the draw) -- can dampen enthusiasm.

[bergholt]

Why would anyone go for Liverpool if they want success?

[saintspremiers]

Why would anyone go for Liverpool if they want success?

Because they have a good song.

[samuraisaint]

Massive numbers of St Kilda supporters all the way down from Mordialloc to Mornington. Considering the lack of success recently we have a great supporter base. At several of the games this year you can put the numbers down to a lack of public transport. It has been especially unreliable this season.

[plugger66]

Massive numbers of St Kilda supporters all the way down from Mordialloc to Mornington. Considering the lack of success recently we have a great supporter base. At several of the games this year you can put the numbers down to a lack of public transport. It has been especially unreliable this season.

What do you base the massive supporter base on? Figures even when success show we unfortunately don't have a massive supporter base and its getting smaller due to probably a few factors. 33k membership now is pathetic considering what is allowed to be classed as a member compared to 6 years ago. Its probably equivalent to 25000 back then.

[bigcarl]

Without a shadow of a doubt it is based on success

Yes, there is no mystery to it.

[samuraisaint]

I live a stone throw from Moorabbin Oval. I've met a heap of St Kilda players everywhere from Southland to Elephant Wheelbarrow to footy clinics.
But although I've always had an awareness of the Saints I always can't quite manage to explain why their membership and crowds are so very low?
Do people from St Kilda to Frankston just not like Football?

Is it purely based on 'Success' I guess Richmond would be perhaps an exception but they have also suffered for a very long time with no success. And they'll double St Kilda supporters anytime anywhere?

Adding to this from 2005 to basically 2011 we had a very good team and a real shot and premierships
And still...still no fans? Is it the area? The history?

On the positive side we’ve survived many lean years and close calls. Moving forward I think this club will always be around…The Dogs & North are definitely behind us in terms of memberships, overall fans and finances. If anyone is going it’s them.

Because we didn't win a premiership in 1997 or 2009 or 2010 (or 1971).

Richmond fans drop off when they're not going well too. This was obvious at the beginning of this season and for half of last year. Remember North were the glamour side of the 1970s, the team of the 90s, and were very decent in the 80s with the Krakouer brothers, Blight, and Barry Cable, usually in the 5 as it was known as then. Having said that, I have been at games in the recent past where I think there were less than 200 North supporters in the ground.

The Bulldogs this year have dwarfed us at games in terms of numbers, but that was definitely due to lack of public transport on the three rail lines that most st Kilda supporters travel on. At Lenny's last home game last year, there would have been lucky to be 500 Buldogs barrackers there.

It comes down to excitement - in 2003/2004 when we were on the rise we got massive support and the same in 2009/2010 - at the moment we are in transition, but the way we are playing at present is pretty exciting, and if AR can continue this the supporters will come.

[plugger66]

I live a stone throw from Moorabbin Oval. I've met a heap of St Kilda players everywhere from Southland to Elephant Wheelbarrow to footy clinics.
But although I've always had an awareness of the Saints I always can't quite manage to explain why their membership and crowds are so very low?
Do people from St Kilda to Frankston just not like Football?

Is it purely based on 'Success' I guess Richmond would be perhaps an exception but they have also suffered for a very long time with no success. And they'll double St Kilda supporters anytime anywhere?

Adding to this from 2005 to basically 2011 we had a very good team and a real shot and premierships
And still...still no fans? Is it the area? The history?

On the positive side we’ve survived many lean years and close calls. Moving forward I think this club will always be around…The Dogs & North are definitely behind us in terms of memberships, overall fans and finances. If anyone is going it’s them.

Because we didn't win a premiership in 1997 or 2009 or 2010 (or 1971).

Richmond fans drop off when they're not going well too. This was obvious at the beginning of this season and for half of last year. Remember North were the glamour side of the 1970s, the team of the 90s, and were very decent in the 80s with the Krakouer brothers, Blight, and Barry Cable, usually in the 5 as it was known as then. Having said that, I have been at games in the recent past where I think there were less than 200 North supporters in the ground.

The Bulldogs this year have dwarfed us at games in terms of numbers, but that was definitely due to lack of public transport on the three rail lines that most st Kilda supporters travel on. At Lenny's last home game last year, there would have been lucky to be 500 Buldogs barrackers there.

It comes down to excitement - in 2003/2004 when we were on the rise we got massive support and the same in 2009/2010 - at the moment we are in transition, but the way we are playing at present is pretty exciting, and if AR can continue this the supporters will come.

Surely you are joking blaming the rail line for crowds? And every club drops off when struggling but I wouldn't say Richmond are going great and they have 70k members. Hard to accuse them of being bandwagon supporters with those figures. Our figures are very disappointing no matter what excuses we come up with.

[Darth Vader]

And in the Ross Lyon years when we were going well, we didn't take advantage in membership numbers due to Ross's bubble, playing style and off-field crap. This flows into current numbers.

[samuraisaint]

Massive numbers of St Kilda supporters all the way down from Mordialloc to Mornington. Considering the lack of success recently we have a great supporter base. At several of the games this year you can put the numbers down to a lack of public transport. It has been especially unreliable this season.

What do you base the massive supporter base on? Figures even when success show we unfortunately don't have a massive supporter base and its getting smaller due to probably a few factors. 33k membership now is pathetic considering what is allowed to be classed as a member compared to 6 years ago. Its probably equivalent to 25000 back then.

Incidental data. Data from the AFL and St Kilda support my assertion that a high percentage of families in the area I mentioned barrack for St Kilda. We play at a ground which is hard to get to, that's a problem. Let me say this - the club has a lot of work to do to ensure that people can get to Etihad reliably. I have lost count of the number of times, just in the past couple of years that my journey to a football stadium in the CBD has been interrupted and has been replaced with an insufficient number of extremely packed and uncomfortable buses.
Parking for the venue is costly and there isn't enough convenient parking in the immediate area for people who have kids. In short, it has become a massive b___ache just to get to and from the footy.
Especially from the southern suburbs and south-east corridor where most of our supporters live.

[plugger66]

Massive numbers of St Kilda supporters all the way down from Mordialloc to Mornington. Considering the lack of success recently we have a great supporter base. At several of the games this year you can put the numbers down to a lack of public transport. It has been especially unreliable this season.

What do you base the massive supporter base on? Figures even when success show we unfortunately don't have a massive supporter base and its getting smaller due to probably a few factors. 33k membership now is pathetic considering what is allowed to be classed as a member compared to 6 years ago. Its probably equivalent to 25000 back then.

Incidental data. I work in the community and base it on families I know - and I work with thousands of families - and a high percentage in the area I mentioned barrack for St Kilda. We play at a ground which is hard to get to, that's a problem. Let me say this - the club has a lot of work to do to ensure that people can get to Etihad reliably. I have lost count of the number of times, just in the past couple of years that my journey to a football stadium in the CBD has been interrupted and has been replaced with an insufficient number of extremely packed and uncomfortable buses.
Parking for the venue is costly and there isn't enough convenient parking in the immediate area for people who have kids. In short, it has become a massive b___ache just to get to and from the footy.
Especially from the southern suburbs and south-east corridor where most of our supporters live.

You work in an area where we have our supporters. I follow Ormond and the Saints is easy the most barracked for club. Same when I went to school. I don't see how that means you know we have a great amount of supporters though. The facts show us our supporter base. And I agree the train lines would effect the crowds. im going with a maximum of 500 because figures this year are similar to last year and the train lines weren't as bad last year.

[remboy]

I would think that these most kids barrack for whoever their parents barrack for. It's very difficult to attract new supporters now because everyone already has a team. As to why we have less than Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton is due largely to lack of success, especially in the early days. If you were picking a club to barrack for in the first 60 years of the VFL why would you pick the Saints?

[samuraisaint]

And in the Ross Lyon years when we were going well, we didn't take advantage in membership numbers due to Ross's bubble, playing style and off-field crap. This flows into current numbers.

That's what Nettlefold said. And there is truth in it. I have watched a lot of the Freo games this year and found them to be a slow strangulation - and yesterday was no different. I think this can turn people off going to the footy. It makes a lot of people think - 'we'll win today, we always do, but there aren't any highlights so I'll stay home and watch it on TV and then I can walk away and come back to it when I want" kind of thing. - And then no silverware or Flag to show for it is not going to be an attention grabber.

I actually prefer watching us now to be honest - the second quarter against Gold Coast, the second half against the Bulldogs, the entire Essendon game, and the last quarter against Richmind, have all been great.

[samuraisaint]

Massive numbers of St Kilda supporters all the way down from Mordialloc to Mornington. Considering the lack of success recently we have a great supporter base. At several of the games this year you can put the numbers down to a lack of public transport. It has been especially unreliable this season.

What do you base the massive supporter base on? Figures even when success show we unfortunately don't have a massive supporter base and its getting smaller due to probably a few factors. 33k membership now is pathetic considering what is allowed to be classed as a member compared to 6 years ago. Its probably equivalent to 25000 back then.

Incidental data. I work in the community and base it on families I know - and I work with thousands of families - and a high percentage in the area I mentioned barrack for St Kilda. We play at a ground which is hard to get to, that's a problem. Let me say this - the club has a lot of work to do to ensure that people can get to Etihad reliably. I have lost count of the number of times, just in the past couple of years that my journey to a football stadium in the CBD has been interrupted and has been replaced with an insufficient number of extremely packed and uncomfortable buses.
Parking for the venue is costly and there isn't enough convenient parking in the immediate area for people who have kids. In short, it has become a massive b___ache just to get to and from the footy.
Especially from the southern suburbs and south-east corridor where most of our supporters live.

You work in an area where we have our supporters. I follow Ormond and the Saints is easy the most barracked for club. Same when I went to school. I don't see how that means you know we have a great amount of supporters though. The facts show us our supporter base. And I agree the train lines would effect the crowds. im going with a maximum of 500 because figures this year are similar to last year and the train lines weren't as bad last year.

There was data which supports that St. Kilda had a very good support base from Port Melbourne to Portsea (or thereabouts). I think that is a furphy because we are not, nor have we ever been an inner city club. Which is one of the reasons we left the junction in the first place.

[plugger66]

There was data which supports that St. Kilda had a very good support base from Port Melbourne to Portsea (or thereabouts). I think that is a furphy because we are not, nor have we ever been an inner city club. Which is one of the reasons we left the junction in the first place.

Im not arguing against that but our good supporter base always gets us less than 40k members no matter how good we are. All clubs have areas of very good supporter base. Its just ours in areas where we live or work so we think we have more than we actually have. If I lived in Preston I would say we have a terrible supporter base. And not for one moment do I think our supporter base extends to Port Melbourne. That area would be dominated by Sydney supporters.

[mordi]

Are the member numbers accurate ? Are we only getting on board with the 3 game memberships now? I question some of the other clubs figures.

[samuraisaint]

There was data which supports that St. Kilda had a very good support base from Port Melbourne to Portsea (or thereabouts). I think that is a furphy because we are not, nor have we ever been an inner city club. Which is one of the reasons we left the junction in the first place.

Im not arguing against that but our good supporter base always gets us less than 40k members no matter how good we are. All clubs have areas of very good supporter base. Its just ours in areas where we live or work so we think we have more than we actually have. If I lived in Preston I would say we have a terrible supporter base. And not for one moment do I think our supporter base extends to Port Melbourne. That area would be dominated by Sydney supporters.

Yep and the club have always said that most of our supporters live south of Elsternwick.

[magnifisaint]

Actually we are way behind the dogs and north in members at the moment.

Not true. North are but the Bulldogs are neck and neck unless the Bulldogs have signed up another 5k in the last few weeks before the June 30 cut off. It was 15 the difference before the year ending 2015.

http://infogr.am/your_club_2015_v_2014?src=embed

[Darth Vader]

And in the Ross Lyon years when we were going well, we didn't take advantage in membership numbers due to Ross's bubble, playing style and off-field crap. This flows into current numbers.

That's what Nettlefold said. And there is truth in it. I have watched a lot of the Freo games this year and found them to be a slow strangulation - and yesterday was no different. I think this can turn people off going to the footy. It makes a lot of people think - 'we'll win today, we always do, but there aren't any highlights so I'll stay home and watch it on TV and then I can walk away and come back to it when I want" kind of thing. - And then no silverware or Flag to show for it is not going to be an attention grabber.

I actually prefer watching us now to be honest - the second quarter against Gold Coast, the second half against the Bulldogs, the entire Essendon game, and the last quarter against Richmind, have all been great.

Yeah, I knew a woman who worked in the membership department at the time and she said all their surveys of non-renewing members indicated this. When I first asked her why our numbers weren't big, she just said 2 words, "Ross Lyon". The bubble was as bad as the playing style because the players didn't get out there and promote.

[samuraisaint]

Anybody remember "The Bubble"? Maybe that had something to do with it...
Not winning a grand final hurt too.

[plugger66]

And in the Ross Lyon years when we were going well, we didn't take advantage in membership numbers due to Ross's bubble, playing style and off-field crap. This flows into current numbers.

That's what Nettlefold said. And there is truth in it. I have watched a lot of the Freo games this year and found them to be a slow strangulation - and yesterday was no different. I think this can turn people off going to the footy. It makes a lot of people think - 'we'll win today, we always do, but there aren't any highlights so I'll stay home and watch it on TV and then I can walk away and come back to it when I want" kind of thing. - And then no silverware or Flag to show for it is not going to be an attention grabber.

I actually prefer watching us now to be honest - the second quarter against Gold Coast, the second half against the Bulldogs, the entire Essendon game, and the last quarter against Richmind, have all been great.

Yeah, I knew a woman who worked in the membership department at the time and she said all their surveys of non-renewing members indicated this. When I first asked her why our numbers weren't big, she just said 2 words, "Ross Lyon". The bubble was as bad as the playing style because the players didn't get out there and promote.

But our numbers were pretty good then compared to Geelong and our playing style in 2009 was fantastic. I just don't think we have the supporter base some think we have. And the players did get out to schools all the time. Probably more than they do now.