Ahmeet Bains Article - List management

[saintbrat]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... o-st-kilda

Nevertheless, Lyon’s surprise departure at the end of 2011 was in retrospect akin to the canary in the mine. A warning that all the pressures pushing in on St Kilda – off-field scandals, administrative tensions, a bloated salary cap, and a lack of high-end draft talent washing through the list – augured a bottoming out and the need for a thorough list rebuild.


After Lyon’s exit – at the end of a season in which they finished sixth on the ladder – St Kilda then dropped to ninth, 16th and 18th in the three years following. Seemingly they were in the same position again as the early 2000s but St Kilda were bottoming out at an inopportune historical moment. The introduction of the Gold Coast Suns in 2010 meant the Saints’ first pick fell at 24 and with Greater Western Sydney entering in 2011, St Kilda’s first pick fell to 25.

As though to punctuate the issue of St Kilda’s ordinary list position, at the end of 2011, 11 players exited the club through retirements and delistings with only two players earning a trade return: Tommy Walsh, who netted pick 35, and Tom Lynch, who secured pick 37. Notwithstanding the need for St Kilda under Lyon to go for broke, as Bains points out there was something of an age profile and youth deficit on the list for players in the 18-23 range.

Bains was part of a strategic review, alongside Chris Pelchen, which identified a need to rebuild the list along the lines of the successful Port Adelaide and Hawthorn blueprints. As Bains notes, “unless something dramatic happened, we were going to go into the wilderness for a period of time… Whilst the draft and other measures over time can help square things up, we needed to take a more proactive approach to transforming the list.”

The pillars of that strategy required Viv Richards-style boldness: bringing in a rash of extra first-round picks through an aggressive trading strategy. Whether by circumstance or design, the early stages of the rebuild appear to be vindicated, with the haul of 2013 and 2014 especially vaunted by football pundits.

As one of the poorer cousins in the AFL, St Kilda appear at no disadvantage in the recruiting stakes. The recruiting department, one of the fulcrums of football success today, has had an injection of financial and human capital. With five full-time and 23 part-time talent scouts, and a specialist team of five dedicated to free agents and currently listed players, Bains believes St Kilda has the talent spread covered in the feeder competitions.

Whether these draft and trade dividends deliver ongoing success is still to be seen – and Bains certainly accepts that there are list gaps – but the efforts of senior players like Riewoldt and Montagna suggest the internal cultural dynamics are strong. And while the loss of players like Goddard was not desired – with St Kilda having put an attractive offer in front of him – Bains takes a philosophical “swings and roundabouts” view. Like the compensation received by Collingwood for Dale Thomas and Dayne Beams, there’s a case to be made that while St Kilda has lost talent, they might be better off with a radical rebuild than pursuing a death in the slow laneslow lane.

[Eastern]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... o-st-kilda

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

He'll be looking for a pay rise !!

[Teflon]

Sounds clued up
How bout the noting in the article of how Saints list post 2000 was built around high end draft picks??? who'd have thought it....

Like his FA stance too - it's to challenge genuinely is what we want...... not limp into 8 beating up lowly sides so done supporters feel like a "winner"

"Feel like a winner" after we win the bloody thing

[WinnersOnly]

He is an excellent operator a real credit to our club! It seems since they couldnt pry Sloane away from Crows and I gather they looked at Treloar & Aish that they have decided to stay with the draft. I wonder if we were knocked back by Treloar? Ameet also suggests we will try to get 2 picks in top 20 this years draft and that they would have to be creative to acheive it! Interesting times again leading into the trade/draft periods.

[plugger66]

Sounds clued up
How bout the noting in the article of how Saints list post 2000 was built around high end draft picks??? who'd have thought it....

Like his FA stance too - it's to challenge genuinely is what we want...... not limp into 8 beating up lowly sides so done supporters feel like a "winner"

"Feel like a winner" after we win the bloody thing

Yep his FA stance is interesting. He probably knows they wont come to us when we are struggling so we will wait until we improve. Makes sense. And yep 2000 built on top picks like Dal, Joey, Goose and priority picks which we don't have anymore. Also Rooy, Ball and Goddard who were all pick ones. Looks like the best we can do this year is about 4 to 6.

[saynta]

Sounds clued up
How bout the noting in the article of how Saints list post 2000 was built around high end draft picks??? who'd have thought it....

Like his FA stance too - it's to challenge genuinely is what we want...... not limp into 8 beating up lowly sides so done supporters feel like a "winner"

"Feel like a winner" after we win the bloody thing

Yep his FA stance is interesting. He probably knows they wont come to us when we are struggling so we will wait until we improve. Makes sense. And yep 2000 built on top picks like Dal, Joey, Goose and priority picks which we don't have anymore. Also Rooy, Ball and Goddard who were all pick ones. Looks like the best we can do this year is about 4 to 6.

Ball was pick 2. Hodge was pick 1 that year.

[plugger66]

Sounds clued up
How bout the noting in the article of how Saints list post 2000 was built around high end draft picks??? who'd have thought it....

Like his FA stance too - it's to challenge genuinely is what we want...... not limp into 8 beating up lowly sides so done supporters feel like a "winner"

"Feel like a winner" after we win the bloody thing

Yep his FA stance is interesting. He probably knows they wont come to us when we are struggling so we will wait until we improve. Makes sense. And yep 2000 built on top picks like Dal, Joey, Goose and priority picks which we don't have anymore. Also Rooy, Ball and Goddard who were all pick ones. Looks like the best we can do this year is about 4 to 6.

Ball was pick 2. Hodge was pick 1 that year.

Yes you are right. Matters little because we aren't getting that this year but thanks for correcting me Stinger.

[saynta]

Sounds clued up
How bout the noting in the article of how Saints list post 2000 was built around high end draft picks??? who'd have thought it....

Like his FA stance too - it's to challenge genuinely is what we want...... not limp into 8 beating up lowly sides so done supporters feel like a "winner"

"Feel like a winner" after we win the bloody thing

Yep his FA stance is interesting. He probably knows they wont come to us when we are struggling so we will wait until we improve. Makes sense. And yep 2000 built on top picks like Dal, Joey, Goose and priority picks which we don't have anymore. Also Rooy, Ball and Goddard who were all pick ones. Looks like the best we can do this year is about 4 to 6.

Ball was pick 2. Hodge was pick 1 that year.

Yes you are right. Matters little because we aren't getting that this year but thanks for correcting me Stinger.

Check your facts kleenex.

[plugger66]

Check your facts kleenex.

Kleenex? Can you explain? I like it though Stings.

[Saint wagga]

I'll be the first to admit that I really resented the way that Goddard and then Dal Santo, real core fabric of the club players left as free agents...I don' think think i'm alone in saying that it was very sad to see them leave for other clubs and still feels wrong seeing them running around for other clubs whilst still being great contributors...

I just wonder how i'll/others will feel if we pay top dollar and bring in a gun recruit via FA in a couple of years. Will we embrace him or will it feel not quite right? They say winning is the only thing that matters, but surely winning with a team built up over years and with seeing youngsters progress develop from young lads into men and develop a really strong bond, surely that win would be sweeter for the club and supporters, than one seemingly 'brought'.

Plus, going after a big fish or two for top dollar would seemingly create the type of salary cap imbalance that led us to the wooden spoon in the first place with a screwed up list profile. FWIW

[saynta]

Check your facts kleenex.

Kleenex? Can you explain? I like it though Stings.

Kleenex are famous for being large and thick. It says so on the side of the box.

Suits you to a tee.

And for the last time, I'm saynta. not stinger. You are like a broken record or a dog with a bone.

You think you are being smart but you are just making a bigger fool of yourself.

Next you will be calling me roger fox or harrym.

For the record, i am not and never were either of them, but I worked out who they really were though.

Anyway, at least I give you the courtesy of a reply, something I don't recall seeing stinger ever doing.

Anyway, I can spell and write proper english, also something I don't recall ever seeing that other poster do.

[plugger66]

I'll be the first to admit that I really resented the way that Goddard and then Dal Santo, real core fabric of the club players left as free agents...I don' think think i'm alone in saying that it was very sad to see them leave for other clubs and still feels wrong seeing them running around for other clubs whilst still being great contributors...

I just wonder how i'll/others will feel if we pay top dollar and bring in a gun recruit via FA in a couple of years. Will we embrace him or will it feel not quite right? They say winning is the only thing that matters, but surely winning with a team built up over years and with seeing youngsters progress develop from young lads into men and develop a really strong bond, surely that win would be sweeter for the club and supporters, than one seemingly 'brought'.

Plus, going after a big fish or two for top dollar would seemingly create the type of salary cap imbalance that led us to the wooden spoon in the first place with a screwed up list profile. FWIW

I think both were happy to leave so I don't see an issue at all and BJ wanted far to much money anyway and they weren't the age we required going forward. if they really both wanted to stay im sure they would have as Joey has done.

As for paying top dollar to a FA well if we want them we have no choice. Im not saying pay a million to a player but I certainly would pay up to 700 or 800k as long as it is the right time. I don't think our players would want someone at that price at the moment because we are a good 3 to 4 years away from challenging for a top 4 spot, maybe even longer. As for being sweeter developing players to be honest I couldn't give a stuff. I am 53 years of age and cant remember our only flag. I couldn't give dam how we win it and anyway didn't G and Hamill feel like our players after a little while. Doesn't Dempster and Schneider feel like out players?

[saynta]

I'll be the first to admit that I really resented the way that Goddard and then Dal Santo, real core fabric of the club players left as free agents...I don' think think i'm alone in saying that it was very sad to see them leave for other clubs and still feels wrong seeing them running around for other clubs whilst still being great contributors...

I just wonder how i'll/others will feel if we pay top dollar and bring in a gun recruit via FA in a couple of years. Will we embrace him or will it feel not quite right? They say winning is the only thing that matters, but surely winning with a team built up over years and with seeing youngsters progress develop from young lads into men and develop a really strong bond, surely that win would be sweeter for the club and supporters, than one seemingly 'brought'.

Plus, going after a big fish or two for top dollar would seemingly create the type of salary cap imbalance that led us to the wooden spoon in the first place with a screwed up list profile. FWIW

I don't think hawks fans are too disappointed seeing the likes of Lake and Burgoyne running around in hawks' colours

[plugger66]

Kleenex are famous for being large and thick. It says so on the side of the box.

Suits you to a tee.

And for the last time, I'm saynta. not stinger. You are like a broken record or a dog with a bone.

You think you are being smart but you are just making a bigger fool of yourself.

Next you will be calling me roger fox or harrym.

For the record, i am not and never were either of them, but I worked out who they really were though.

Anyway, at least I give you the courtesy of a reply, something I don't recall seeing stinger ever doing.

Anyway, I can spell and write proper english, also something I don't recall ever seeing that other poster do.

That is absolutely hilarious. Kleenex. Large and think. Ha very funny. I don't get it though stinger.

[Saint wagga]

I'll be the first to admit that I really resented the way that Goddard and then Dal Santo, real core fabric of the club players left as free agents...I don' think think i'm alone in saying that it was very sad to see them leave for other clubs and still feels wrong seeing them running around for other clubs whilst still being great contributors...

I just wonder how i'll/others will feel if we pay top dollar and bring in a gun recruit via FA in a couple of years. Will we embrace him or will it feel not quite right? They say winning is the only thing that matters, but surely winning with a team built up over years and with seeing youngsters progress develop from young lads into men and develop a really strong bond, surely that win would be sweeter for the club and supporters, than one seemingly 'brought'.

Plus, going after a big fish or two for top dollar would seemingly create the type of salary cap imbalance that led us to the wooden spoon in the first place with a screwed up list profile. FWIW

I don't think hawks fans are too disappointed seeing the likes of Lake and Burgoyne running around in hawks' colours

mmm...not too sure, I've got a good mate who is a hawks supporter and he gets needled pretty easy when you mention Gibson Lake and Burgoyne and Frawley in the same sentance...

IMO, you'll always have players coming in, not evryone who is in our next successful side will come from the draft, just like it didn't last time we were at the top, but a blatant FA poach job perhaps a year out from a real crack, thats uncharted territory for us and I'm not sure how it'll sit thats all...of course would rather just develop our own, but as ou say winners are grinners

[Teflon]

Sounds clued up
How bout the noting in the article of how Saints list post 2000 was built around high end draft picks??? who'd have thought it....

Like his FA stance too - it's to challenge genuinely is what we want...... not limp into 8 beating up lowly sides so done supporters feel like a "winner"

"Feel like a winner" after we win the bloody thing

Yep his FA stance is interesting. He probably knows they wont come to us when we are struggling so we will wait until we improve. Makes sense. And yep 2000 built on top picks like Dal, Joey, Goose and priority picks which we don't have anymore. Also Rooy, Ball and Goddard who were all pick ones. Looks like the best we can do this year is about 4 to 6.

He didn't say wait till we improve - we will have improved if/when we finish 10th. The point he made is FAs are only useful to get you to the upper echelon of the comp to compete.

Again why do you make stuff up that isn't there?
And why are you stalking me?
And yes, that side from early 2000's clearly didn't use any top draft picks at all to build on..... they got there via all late picks in rd 5.....
Regardless, we made the most out of having great early draft picks cause we were ordinary just like we are now right?
Keep on topic ...

[Teflon]

Sounds clued up
How bout the noting in the article of how Saints list post 2000 was built around high end draft picks??? who'd have thought it....

Like his FA stance too - it's to challenge genuinely is what we want...... not limp into 8 beating up lowly sides so done supporters feel like a "winner"

"Feel like a winner" after we win the bloody thing

Yep his FA stance is interesting. He probably knows they wont come to us when we are struggling so we will wait until we improve. Makes sense. And yep 2000 built on top picks like Dal, Joey, Goose and priority picks which we don't have anymore. Also Rooy, Ball and Goddard who were all pick ones. Looks like the best we can do this year is about 4 to 6.

Ball was pick 2. Hodge was pick 1 that year.

Yes you are right. Matters little because we aren't getting that this year but thanks for correcting me Stinger.

Is this you being "factual" again???
And why the insults? You don't like it when someone quite "matter of factly" points out YOUR WRONG do you??

[plugger66]

Is this you being "factual" again???
And why the insults? You don't like it when someone quite "matter of factly" points out YOUR WRONG do you??

No insult. It is Stinger. He changed his name and I said I was wrong. Can you follow my posts around just a little bit more? Please. You really seem like a person under pressure. Which post will be next? It should be fun reading it. Now back on topic. I like this guy and I don't think we will miss Pelchen at all.

[Teflon]

Is this you being "factual" again???
And why the insults? You don't like it when someone quite "matter of factly" points out YOUR WRONG do you??

No insult. It is Stinger. He changed his name and I said I was wrong. Can you follow my posts around just a little bit more? Please. You really seem like a person under pressure. Which post will be next? It should be fun reading it. Now back on topic. I like this guy and I don't think we will miss Pelchen at all.

It isn't Stinger I have spoken personally to Saynta so wrong again !!
No pressure here and yes Bains seems good

[plugger66]

[quote="Teflon"]


Lost my money. That isn't unusual. Must have been a riveting conversation.

Which one is next?

[GrumpyOne]

Is this you being "factual" again???
And why the insults? You don't like it when someone quite "matter of factly" points out YOUR WRONG do you??

No insult. It is Stinger. He changed his name and I said I was wrong. Can you follow my posts around just a little bit more? Please. You really seem like a person under pressure. Which post will be next? It should be fun reading it. Now back on topic. I like this guy and I don't think we will miss Pelchen at all.

It isn't Stinger I have spoken personally to Saynta so wrong again !!
No pressure here and yes Bains seems good

Does Saynta have Stinger's presents?

[plugger66]

Is this you being "factual" again???
And why the insults? You don't like it when someone quite "matter of factly" points out YOUR WRONG do you??

No insult. It is Stinger. He changed his name and I said I was wrong. Can you follow my posts around just a little bit more? Please. You really seem like a person under pressure. Which post will be next? It should be fun reading it. Now back on topic. I like this guy and I don't think we will miss Pelchen at all.

It isn't Stinger I have spoken personally to Saynta so wrong again !!
No pressure here and yes Bains seems good

Does Saynta have Stinger's presents?

Presence I would think.

[Teflon]

Is this you being "factual" again???
And why the insults? You don't like it when someone quite "matter of factly" points out YOUR WRONG do you??

No insult. It is Stinger. He changed his name and I said I was wrong. Can you follow my posts around just a little bit more? Please. You really seem like a person under pressure. Which post will be next? It should be fun reading it. Now back on topic. I like this guy and I don't think we will miss Pelchen at all.

It isn't Stinger I have spoken personally to Saynta so wrong again !!
No pressure here and yes Bains seems good

Does Saynta have Stinger's presents?

Presence I would think.

No gifts were exchanged other than ideas - a foreign thing to many on here...