Backline

[ben_fff]

Interested to hear peoples thoughts on what our ideal backline looks like. I think we're at an intersection where they need to decide whether it's worth persisting with a guy like Chips (who made some poor decisions today, had no touch on his man when the ball was coming in) or whether they bring back Delaney and give a lockdown roll to Goddard.

Goddard did well in contests today, he seems to be able to get a hand or fist in despite even when being crunched by a pack of opposition players.

Dempster and Gilbert always play there best footy as the extra man floating across the front of a pack.

I'm interested to see what team lines up next week, the D's have some big bodys up forward.

[spert]

Goddard looks promising and will get better over a couple of seasons. Gilbert is woefully slow in getting back to cover his opponents and has terrible decision making under pressure..but tries hard. Dempster is doing a good job, but seems to drift off his man a bit too much and then can't recover to make a contest. Webster is still learning. I think Chips has lost a lot of what he had sadly and I would play Delaney instead. I do remember Richo weeks ago mentioning the problem of slow recovery by some players- that is, getting back on their man quickly and it was obvious yesterday when Richmond players easily crept out the back to set up options while the Saints players were too slow to wake up to it, and I think opposition coaches know it's a weakness they can exploit. Probably need to rest a tall like Hickey in the backline to improve marking power, but the recruiters should be looking at big key position backs amongst other things as we go on.

[ROLS-LEE]

Against melb we need someone on Hogan. Whether it be Goddard or Delaney. We also need to play Lee before the end of the year as a back men. I say we drop fisher. Now Fisher is preventing games and development into a youngster. Keep Dempster and Gilbert as the experienced ones down back.

[plugger66]

Against melb we need someone on Hogan. Whether it be Goddard or Delaney. We also need to play Lee before the end of the year as a back men. I say we drop fisher. Now Fisher is preventing games and development into a youngster. Keep Dempster and Gilbert as the experienced ones down back.

I think you are underestimating the fact that we will want to win this game. I think we will go experienced this week and then in the last few games get games into the young guys.

[ROLS-LEE]

Against melb we need someone on Hogan. Whether it be Goddard or Delaney. We also need to play Lee before the end of the year as a back men. I say we drop fisher. Now Fisher is preventing games and development into a youngster. Keep Dempster and Gilbert as the experienced ones down back.

I think you are underestimating the fact that we will want to win this game. I think we will go experienced this week and then in the last few games get games into the young guys.

Better to do it against melb than smash their confidence against top 8 sides.

[plugger66]

Against melb we need someone on Hogan. Whether it be Goddard or Delaney. We also need to play Lee before the end of the year as a back men. I say we drop fisher. Now Fisher is preventing games and development into a youngster. Keep Dempster and Gilbert as the experienced ones down back.

I think you are underestimating the fact that we will want to win this game. I think we will go experienced this week and then in the last few games get games into the young guys.

Better to do it against melb than smash their confidence against top 8 sides.

I said the exact opposite about 2 weeks ago and they pretty much did what I said against the Tigers. I think we need to win the winnable games. Im unsure a few ordinary late in the year will have any effect on players especially as the club would be explaining the processes.

[terry smith rules]

Was Gilbert even in the backline yesterday. Seemed to be playing wing and through the midfied. Whilst the back 6 was Goddard, Dempster, Geary, Fisher, Roberton and Webster

[gringo]

Was Gilbert even in the backline yesterday. Seemed to be playing wing and through the midfied. Whilst the back 6 was Goddard, Dempster, Geary, Fisher, Roberton and Webster

Yeah he dropped back but so did guys like Lonie. I think he was setting up higher up the ground too and Webster even had a run on the ball from a back flank at times.

[Goose is king]

The back line is my main concern for us when it comes to contending for a flag.
I think Goddard is a lock for 10 years and it may be an area we look at with free agency when we are ready.
I know we need some more quality mids but they are relatively easy to find.
A KP defender must be on our radar soon especially if Lee isn't good enough because I'm not convinced Delany is good enough to be part of a premiership side.
I hope both can make it and the problem is solved but I'm not convinced

[plugger66]

The back line is my main concern for us when it comes to contending for a flag.
I think Goddard is a lock for 10 years and it may be an area we look at with free agency when we are ready.
I know we need some more quality mids but they are relatively easy to find.
A KP defender must be on our radar soon especially if Lee isn't good enough because I'm not convinced Delany is good enough to be part of a premiership side.
I hope both can make it and the problem is solved but I'm not convinced

Arent key backs easier to find. Most seem to come from other clubs. I certainly wouldn't be wasting a high pick on a backman. We can trade for them or make our own. We need mids. If they are that easy to get why don't we have more than 2 good ones.

[Goose is king]

[quote="plugger66"][quote="Goose is king"]The back line is my main concern for us when it comes to contending for a flag.
I think Goddard is a lock for 10 years and it may be an area we look at with free agency when we are ready.
I know we need some more quality mids but they are relatively easy to find.
A KP defender must be on our radar soon especially if Lee isn't good enough because I'm not convinced Delany is good enough to be part of a premiership side.
I hope both can make it and the problem is solved but I'm not convinced[/quote]


Arent key backs easier to find. Most seem to come from other clubs. I certainly wouldn't be wasting a high pick on a backman. We can trade for them or make our own. We need mids. If they are that easy to get why don't we have more than 2 good ones.[/quote]


We only have two AFL standard good mids because Dunstan, Billings, Acres, McKenzie and Newnes aren't quiet their yet and/or play on the fringes of the midfield.
Absolutely agree we need a couple more A class midfielders but our defense is old ATM and I don't think that we have much in the shed.
I hope we can do a Hawthhorn in this area when ready and secure our own Gibson, Lake and Frawley but until that happens I'm more concerned about our defense

[the dome]

1 game in for Hugh - so far so good but with the inevitable loss of experience from the very professional AA Dempster & Chips and not having their input by the time we're hoping to be top 4 I'm sure the club will be keeping an eye out for KP defending talent. I hope Del continues to blossom but i think you have to plan for Hugh having some substantial big man back up. I don't like heaping the expectation on Goddard too. He may well turn out to be very good but...
Having said all that I still lean in the direction of an A-grade MiD.

That player could be there for the Saints @ pick 4,5,6, or 7. The recruiters were able to get the player they wanted I believe when they picked Billings so perhaps our first pick in November can also be a very well researched and wise move.
With hindsight I wish we had overlooked Judd's 2 shoulder recons and not gone with the impressive (at the time) Ball but hard to read the cards on that one. Perhaps we are due for an inspired pick this year.
The fact that Sinclair, Bruchey & Lonie have happily surprised many gives the team a good push along in their development.
We could still be in line for an excellent trade that could benefit us hugely as well.
Anyway on the day the club may just go with best player available. Perhaps the most likely outcome.

[Goose is king]

There is no doubt with our first pick we will pick the best available player.
It's the later picks you can address your needs.
It has been stated that's why we got Lonie at 41(?) because of our needs.
Now with Lonie, Billings and Sinclair it's a potential future strength

[aaron82]

A player we might look at is Lachie Plowman from GWS. Top 10 draft pick that was a backman, had a couple of seasons ruined by injury. GWS is a gold mine right now with quite a few elite talents not getting games at the moment. Similar to Josh Bruce quality will drop of that list.

[skeptic]

It's definitely our weakest position by far IMO, compounded by the fact that our midfield occasionally gets touched up.

As it stands, Delaney is our only proper KPP and the jury remains out on him.
Its ok to be a gorilla and only have spoiling as the thing u offer... But u need to be exceptional if that is the case. At the moment he is no Max Hudghton. I think you have to play him regardless

Sam Fisher has always been more suited to a running tall rather than KPF... Age and injury have slowed him down to the point that he defends more now and he's not great at it. I personally think he's the one you need to move on.

Sam Gilbert is not and has never been a KPP - his job has always been as a flanking running type, third man up. Whilst injuries have plagued him, he hasn't had a good year since 2010... Thats a reality. His disposal is poor. His marking isnt what it once was... Can't run as much.
The only thing that saves him IMO is that he is working his way back up to proper form and he's younger than Fish... That and we dont have a ready made back to replace him.

Tom Lee appears to have been muscled out as a forward... He's doing ok as a tall'ish running defender. His disposal is good. I don't think he is KPB but i think we should given him a go.

Webster has slotted in nicely on a flank
Newnes is ok as a developing runner but his disposal is iffy at times

Geary is a beast of a stopper but his disposal prevents him from delivering run

Savage has elite disposal but is too unaccountable and not as damaging as say an Aussie Jones to compensate for it

Wright seems out of touch and Acres can't get onto the park but they seem more in the Dempster mold

Dempster is a gun, and may have another season but is getting on.


I think we need at least one KPD and need to move Fish and zgilbo on

[plugger66]

I don't get why we need to move Gilbert on. I can handle Fisher retiring even though I probably would keep him one more year but Gilbert is our fastest and most versatile back and if he has an uninterrupted pre season he can certainly get back to his best. I reckon its suicidal to lose both Fisher and Gilbert in the same season.

[saintjake]

I don't get why we need to move Gilbert on. I can handle Fisher retiring even though I probably would keep him one more year but Gilbert is our fastest and most versatile back and if he has an uninterrupted pre season he can certainly get back to his best. I reckon its suicidal to lose both Fisher and Gilbert in the same season.

If he can get fully fit and play as a high winger, linking the back and forward halfs with run and carry then he is valuable.
As a one on one defender I don't like him. But letting him run free I think he can become a weapon.

Kicking is questionable I know. But I think it looks worse than it is.

[WinnersOnly]

Totally agree about comments re Fisher he has never been suited to playing on the No 1 forward. He has always panicked and become more worried about his opponent than the ball. He is a great contested mark and needs to play like Brian Lake and back himself in to out mark the key forward, rather than getting lost looking for his opponent. If he gets beaten in the contest you would accept that, rather than seeing his opponent slipping past him without knowing where the ball is.

TBH Fishers form has not been that solid this year! Perhaps it is time he sat out and we brought back Delaney who seems to have found his form again! The other option is give Goddard the role but thats a tough ask for a kid in his 2nd game!

[barwonsaint]

At the game yesterday and Gilbert started on the wing at the center bounces after each goal.Dont think he is playing purely as a back.

[skeptic]

In fairness, i would only move Gilbo on if i had some ready to take his position and right now, we don't.

The problem with Gilbo is that we say "if he can get back to his best" - he hasn't for a long long time.

Further to that, it's hard to see what his best position is.

As it stands, he's can't play the role of attacking defender... He can't. He's not damaging enough and gets exposed down back. Furthermore, his disposal can be a liability.

Lets break this down... Back 6

B: Dempster, FB, Geary
HB: Webster, CHB, Savage/Newnes

Then you have Acres, Wright, Lee, Roberton

So where does he play? Who does he displace? He's not a KPP.
The Savage/Newnes spot is more for a fast line breaker
Geary is more a stopper

So i guess he's in competition for the medium defender role with Webster and Dempster... Roberton up the ground, Wright VS Geary, seems he's in competition with Acres too.

Given that we havent seen good form from Gilbo for years now... I dunno, i'd rather persevere with younger players opposed to Sam

[dragit]

TBH Fishers form has not been that solid this year!

I feel like we must watch different games.

He has been in our best most weeks he has played this year.

[Rosco]

In fairness, i would only move Gilbo on if i had some ready to take his position and right now, we don't.

The problem with Gilbo is that we say "if he can get back to his best" - he hasn't for a long long time.

Further to that, it's hard to see what his best position is.

As it stands, he's can't play the role of attacking defender... He can't. He's not damaging enough and gets exposed down back. Furthermore, his disposal can be a liability.

Lets break this down... Back 6

B: Dempster, FB, Geary
HB: Webster, CHB, Savage/Newnes

Then you have Acres, Wright, Lee, Roberton

So where does he play? Who does he displace? He's not a KPP.
The Savage/Newnes spot is more for a fast line breaker
Geary is more a stopper

So i guess he's in competition for the medium defender role with Webster and Dempster... Roberton up the ground, Wright VS Geary, seems he's in competition with Acres too.

Given that we havent seen good form from Gilbo for years now... I dunno, i'd rather persevere with younger players opposed to Sam

I see Gilbert's successor as Wright and maybe markworth if he comes on, a bit of height, take a fwd as needed but the main string to his bow being linebreaking. Basically a tall wingman if that position still exists.