If we deliberately play badly..

[saintsRrising]

If we deliberately play badly..how do we know who to keep, and who to delist?

If players are not tested under proper game pressure, playing the type of football that a winning team plays, how do you know who is up to it and who is not? Football is all about team play these days and I find it hard to imagine how you can actually test how good players are if all the links in the chain are not playing good team football.

I look at the poor bastards trying gain valuable experience while playing for Development Team, and know that their development is actually being curtailed as they are playing at too low a levelto test them properly.

If we had been playing poor football this year, would Bruce have been able to step up? Would Sinclair have been a two game wonder starved of opportunity to shine in a barren forward line?

[chook23]

strange post

[plugger66]

I have to say that even those who don't care if we win for some silly reason don't think we are deliberately playing badly.

[mullet]

If we deliberately play badly ..... we get fined

[saintsRrising]

I have to say that even those who don't care if we win for some silly reason don't think we are deliberately playing badly.

But for those that want to tank over a whole season, you can only tank for that long if you play badly.

[plugger66]

I have to say that even those who don't care if we win for some silly reason don't think we are deliberately playing badly.

But for those that want to tank over a whole season, you can only tank for that long if you play badly.

Players don't deliberately play badly. You could be coached badly though.

[Con Gorozidis]

I dont think anyone ever deliberately play bad.

Tanking, when and if it happens, involves selection, injury mgt and positional moves. Noone ever doesn't try once they cross the white line (except maybe Bernard Tomic). I don't think we will be doing that, and even if we did, it would not be until Rd 20 or so.

[Teflon]

strange post

One of many.....lol

How bizarre.

[asiu]

But for those that want to tank over a whole season, you can only tank for that long if you play badly.

this non 'tanking' discussion has gone where now... the whole season! ... say whatski
... wow ... talk about a dog with a bone.
... srs !
(thanx OM)
... the debate , only occurred after we outshone ourselves in part A.
after coming off such a low base of expectation.

its really only a chat about foundation completion in the end.

[Teflon]

But for those that want to tank over a whole season, you can only tank for that long if you play badly.

this non 'tanking' discussion has gone where now... the whole season! ... say whatski
... wow ... talk about a dog with a bone.
... srs !
(thanx OM)
... the debate , only occurred after we outshone ourselves in part A.
after coming off such a low base of expectation.

its really only a chat about foundation completion in the end.

I'm loving the embellishment
It's gone from disinterest if we drop a game or 2 to a tanking pandemic that will infest us for multiple years.... Ye not 1 post has stated that??

You can kind of see how certain cults get going after reading it but it is entertaining

[samuraisaint]

Ridiculous - the one element in all pf this that people don't take into account is why would players on a list sabotage their own careers by deliberately throwing a match?
As other posters far more knowledgeable than I have already posted, Hawthorn got Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead and Franklin during a two year bottoming out timeframe. Before that they were a middle of the road side, and after this period they were straight back into finals contention.
Because our recruiting 2006-2011 was so appalling we have had to endure now into our third poor season in a row, and will certainly extend into next year and conceivably 2017 with the retirement of our 2004-2011 stars. We need to play at our best every week to remain competitive, while not exhausting or playing into the ground, our young teenage recruits.
For mine I would love to see two wins in the next four matches, and to keep our losses in the final six games against stiff opposition under 50 points.

[Andreous]

Ridiculous - the one element in all pf this that people don't take into account is why would players on a list sabotage their own careers by deliberately throwing a match?
As other posters far more knowledgeable than I have already posted, Hawthorn got Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead and Franklin during a two year bottoming out timeframe. Before that they were a middle of the road side, and after this period they were straight back into finals contention.
Because our recruiting 2006-2011 was so appalling we have had to endure now into our third poor season in a row, and will certainly extend into next year and conceivably 2017 with the retirement of our 2004-2011 stars. We need to play at our best every week to remain competitive, while not exhausting or playing into the ground, our young teenage recruits.
For mine I would love to see two wins in the next four matches, and to keep our losses in the final six games against stiff opposition under 50 points.

+1

[longtimesaint]

Ridiculous - the one element in all pf this that people don't take into account is why would players on a list sabotage their own careers by deliberately throwing a match?
As other posters far more knowledgeable than I have already posted, Hawthorn got Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead and Franklin during a two year bottoming out timeframe. Before that they were a middle of the road side, and after this period they were straight back into finals contention.
Because our recruiting 2006-2011 was so appalling we have had to endure now into our third poor season in a row, and will certainly extend into next year and conceivably 2017 with the retirement of our 2004-2011 stars. We need to play at our best every week to remain competitive, while not exhausting or playing into the ground, our young teenage recruits.
For mine I would love to see two wins in the next four matches, and to keep our losses in the final six games against stiff opposition under 50 points.

+1

If you look at Melbourne and Carlton I think it is pretty clear that tanking for early draft picks does not work.
You are far better developing a winning culture and then draft as well as you can with whatever pick you end up with.
When you analyse the draft picks not every early pick is a star -we picked Joey at 37 and Fisher at 55

[samuraisaint]

And with all their advantages, and into their fifth year, how are the Gold Coast Suns traveling again? They must have only won two games out of twenty-five or something like that.

[Teflon]

And with all their advantages, and into their fifth year, how are the Gold Coast Suns traveling again? They must have only won two games out of twenty-five or something like that.

Comparing different clubs cultures and the impact this has on a rebuild is pointless, let alone comparing a synthetic cluc like GC
We will be fine if we were to drop a few games I do not buy the panic at all and no one yet has been able to quantify the long term benefits a win this week over Bombers will have in 5 years time

Nothing wring with understanding and using the system to your advantage and no one can tell me clubs have not done this before

[plugger66]

And with all their advantages, and into their fifth year, how are the Gold Coast Suns traveling again? They must have only won two games out of twenty-five or something like that.

Comparing different clubs cultures and the impact this has on a rebuild is pointless, let alone comparing a synthetic cluc like GC
We will be fine if we were to drop a few games I do not buy the panic at all and no one yet has been able to quantify the long term benefits a win this week over Bombers will have in 5 years time

Nothing wring with understanding and using the system to your advantage and no one can tell me clubs have not done this before

Why do you keep mention Richmond and North then when talking about 9th? The problem with your theory's is you contradict them. Now stop following my posts.

[Teflon]

And with all their advantages, and into their fifth year, how are the Gold Coast Suns traveling again? They must have only won two games out of twenty-five or something like that.

Comparing different clubs cultures and the impact this has on a rebuild is pointless, let alone comparing a synthetic cluc like GC
We will be fine if we were to drop a few games I do not buy the panic at all and no one yet has been able to quantify the long term benefits a win this week over Bombers will have in 5 years time

Nothing wring with understanding and using the system to your advantage and no one can tell me clubs have not done this before

Why do you keep mention Richmond and North then when talking about 9th? The problem with your theory's is you contradict them. Now stop following my posts.

I think the post order in this thread demonstrates who the stalker is
Besides, it's a fact Richmond own 9th and that point is t Richmond at all..... it's about finishing in no mans ladder mid table but anyway...
No such facts can determine 2 sides shall rebuild the same way - to many variables
Try keep up

[plugger66]

I hope we win this week. I doubt we will deliberately play badly.

[mad saint guy]

No one wants us to play badly. I personally would rather that we didn't have so many old fringe players in the 22 while the likes of McKenzie, Acres, Wright, Lee, Goddard, Hickey are stuck at Sandringham indefinitely while in excellent form. Maybe we would win one or two games less by giving the youth more games ahead of Schneider, Gilbert, Ray and Shenton (I know he's not old but has clear limitations), but that won't sabotage the fabric of the club. Maybe we end up getting pick 4 instead of pick 5 and the kids have more experience going into 2016. Hell, maybe we'd even win an extra game or two this year with the added skill and enthusiasm from the kids.

[samuraisaint]

And with all their advantages, and into their fifth year, how are the Gold Coast Suns traveling again? They must have only won two games out of twenty-five or something like that.

Comparing different clubs cultures and the impact this has on a rebuild is pointless, let alone comparing a synthetic cluc like GC
We will be fine if we were to drop a few games I do not buy the panic at all and no one yet has been able to quantify the long term benefits a win this week over Bombers will have in 5 years time

Nothing wring with understanding and using the system to your advantage and no one can tell me clubs have not done this before

I think we have gone 'the Hawthorn model' of building our team from scratch, going out and using the draft to select skilled left footers, and crafty use of trades to improve picks, and move on players who don't fit in to our long term plans, while keeping veterans who will help us to remain competitive while we get the first thirty games into our teenage recruits. Comparing strategies with other clubs is not pointless because this is our only avenue to gaining meaningful data on the respective strategies of our competition. Hawthorn are the benchmark, Gold Coast are a car crash. I like the way the Bulldogs have gone about it, but they have the advantage of a reserves side which we do not.

I want to beat Essendon because I am getting older and can remember a long way back to 'the animals match' at Moorabbin in 78, and Carman vilifying and then headbutting an umpire when they were losing to us in 1980. I don't like them and I don't want to lose to them again - ever again. Simple as that for mine.

[dragit]

I think we have gone 'the Hawthorn model' of building our team from scratch,

I reckon Hawthorns model is anything but 'building a team from scratch'

Half their list are mature trade-ins
Gibson, McEvoy, Burgoyne, Frawley, O’Rourke, Lake, Ceglar, Gunstan, Hale, Spangher, Simpkin,

[kosifantutti]

I don't know what the figures are for other teams, but about half our players last week came from other clubs. The dogs had two.

[samuraisaint]

I think we have gone 'the Hawthorn model' of building our team from scratch,

I reckon Hawthorns model is anything but 'building a team from scratch'

Half their list are mature trade-ins
Gibson, McEvoy, Burgoyne, Frawley, O’Rourke, Lake, Ceglar, Gunstan, Hale, Spangher, Simpkin,

truth in what you say, but we are still following their model.

[gringo]

I think we have gone 'the Hawthorn model' of building our team from scratch,

I reckon Hawthorns model is anything but 'building a team from scratch'

Half their list are mature trade-ins
Gibson, McEvoy, Burgoyne, Frawley, O’Rourke, Lake, Ceglar, Gunstan, Hale, Spangher, Simpkin,

They are pretty much following our old model but doing it better. We rebuilt then topped up too. We are doing it from the bottom up again now and they will probably need to at some point too.

[dragit]

I think we have gone 'the Hawthorn model' of building our team from scratch,

I reckon Hawthorns model is anything but 'building a team from scratch'

Half their list are mature trade-ins
Gibson, McEvoy, Burgoyne, Frawley, O’Rourke, Lake, Ceglar, Gunstan, Hale, Spangher, Simpkin,

truth in what you say, but we are still following their model.

You could be right with Pelchen heavily involved with both clubs.

Hopefully we are constantly assessing and adjusting our approach as we go, needs to be a pretty agile model as players invariably under or over-perform to expectation.