List decisions

[Hallalj#3]

Saunders - stay
Curran - stay
Wright - stay
Saad - delist
Simpkin - stay
Siposs - trade/delist
Markworth - stay
Murdoch - stay
Hickey - if we can get pick 20 or better then trade otherwise keep
Lee - trade/delist
Templeton - stay
Holmes - if Hickey is traded then promote to senior list

You would seriously contemplate trading Hickey - and then promoting Holmes to the senior list?!?! That defies logic. It would take a millenium to get Holmes ready to do the sort of things Hickey and Longer do now. Holmes is a feel good story - nothing more. We are a better side with Hickey in it. We wouldn't get anywhere making a decision like that.
Markworth won't make it. Sorry, body can't take the rigours of the professional game.

The sad thing is I think that's exactly what the club is thinking. Would be a massive mistake I think, we can easily get a 1st Rounder for him. I feel like I know why he isn't getting first crack in the middle, Longer isn't putting up amazing numbers. Hickey could be a 20+possies a game rukmen and I think Last yr before the Knee that exactly what he was building towards.

The Game is moving towards more of a Stoppage game and Longer does have upside in that regard being a bigger frame, and with Interchange going to be capped even more there will be even more stoppages, so i do see the clubs thinking, but when you put Talent against Talent Hickey is the much more talented player.

But I don't think he will be here in 2016.

[dragit]

Saunders - stay
Curran - stay
Wright - stay
Saad - delist
Simpkin - stay
Siposs - trade/delist
Markworth - stay
Murdoch - stay
Hickey - if we can get pick 20 or better then trade otherwise keep
Lee - trade/delist
Templeton - stay
Holmes - if Hickey is traded then promote to senior list

You would seriously contemplate trading Hickey - and then promoting Holmes to the senior list?!?! That defies logic. It would take a millenium to get Holmes ready to do the sort of things Hickey and Longer do now. Holmes is a feel good story - nothing more. We are a better side with Hickey in it. We wouldn't get anywhere making a decision like that.
Markworth won't make it. Sorry, body can't take the rigours of the professional game.

The sad thing is I think that's exactly what the club is thinking. Would be a massive mistake I think, we can easily get a 1st Rounder for him. I feel like I know why he isn't getting first crack in the middle, Longer isn't putting up amazing numbers. Hickey could be a 20+possies a game rukmen and I think Last yr before the Knee that exactly what he was building towards.

The Game is moving towards more of a Stoppage game and Longer does have upside in that regard being a bigger frame, and with Interchange going to be capped even more there will be even more stoppages, so i do see the clubs thinking, but when you put Talent against Talent Hickey is the much more talented player.

But I don't think he will be here in 2016.

Who would possibly give us a 1st round pick though?

1 FRE Fremantle - potentially, but no urgent need
2 WCE West Coast Eagles no need whatsover
3 SYD Sydney Swans happy with plodding rucks
4 HAW Hawthorn no need
5 COLL Collingwood no need
6 RICH Richmond no need
7 ADEL Adelaide Crows no need
8 WB Western Bulldogs maybe?
9 GWS GWS Giants no need
10 GEEL Geelong Cats maybe, probably no need
11 NMFC North Melbourne no need
12 PORT Port Adelaide no need
13 ESS Essendon they never give up a decent pick ever.
15 MELB Melbourne no need
16 CARL Carlton maybe - no chance with a top 5 pick though
17 BL Brisbane Lions no need
18 GCFC Gold Coast Suns no need

[Old Mate]

Hickey would be perfect for the Dogs.

[bigred]

A lot of teams have rucks.

Not a lot of teams have great ruck depth.

IMO we go three deep if we had to.

Billy and Hickey have currency.

I reckon they will be looking to have three picks inside the top 25 again.

[NoMore]

The way these delistings are going we will have an average age of 21 and get floggings for the next 2 years and be like Melbourne in 5 years.

You need experience and big bodies to protect the young players.

Hugh Goddard will end up like Zac Dawson if he is thrown to the wolves.

As much as i think Ray is mediocre if his form holds up i think he should go on as well as Fisher.

Of the experienced players i think Schnieder and Gilbert should be the ones to go.

Schnieder is being replaced by Billings, Lonie and Sinclar.

Gilbert is the same player as Sean Dempster with out the skill

Saad is only a rookie so whether he goes or stays doesn't matter so much but i think he will be gone.

Hickey will be kept. They will get rid of the sub and that will mean a return to the days of 2 ruckmen with one resting forward.

I think Simpkin is gone.

I hope Curran stays because i think he adds depth

Lee and Goddard are the future of our defense as Delahny is a plodder who is bridging the gap between our last generation and the one coming.

Sipposs is done unless he pulls his finger out. I'm not sure of his contract but i would be shocked if he got another one or if anyone would trade for them.

I love the experience players we will be left with.

Dempster
Geary
Fisher
Ray (maybe)
Montagna
Riewolt

[plugger66]

The way these delistings are going we will have an average age of 21 and get floggings for the next 2 years and be like Melbourne in 5 years.

You need experience and big bodies to protect the young players.

Hugh Goddard will end up like Zac Dawson if he is thrown to the wolves.

As much as i think Ray is mediocre if his form holds up i think he should go on as well as Fisher.

Of the experienced players i think Schnieder and Gilbert should be the ones to go.

Schnieder is being replaced by Billings, Lonie and Sinclar.

Gilbert is the same player as Sean Dempster with out the skill

Saad is only a rookie so whether he goes or stays doesn't matter so much but i think he will be gone.

Hickey will be kept. They will get rid of the sub and that will mean a return to the days of 2 ruckmen with one resting forward.

I think Simpkin is gone.

I hope Curran stays because i think he adds depth

Lee and Goddard are the future of our defense as Delahny is a plodder who is bridging the gap between our last generation and the one coming.

Sipposs is done unless he pulls his finger out. I'm not sure of his contract but i would be shocked if he got another one or if anyone would trade for them.

I love the experience players we will be left with.

Dempster
Geary
Fisher
Ray (maybe)
Montagna
Riewolt

If the sub goes the interchange will be dropped to about 80 so I cant possibly see two ruckmen playing. They will want to use most of those 80 on mids. I think Ray should go because he doesn't have any true position and is easily replaced. Schneider should retire and maybe Fisher if he struggles for injury in the next few games. We have 7 potential over 30 year old players so we need to lose on average 2 to 3 a year. We certainly have enough young players who could go if wanted too. Matter of fact we have a lot but they wont all go.

[Hemi Baxter]

There won't be much movement as the draft isn't deep and we have a lot of players 23 or under who will get one more year to show that they can play the game at the highest level.

There must be some chance that one of White, Siposs or Markworth will be shuffled to the rookie list which would mean that we only have to delist 3 players or 4 if we are looking for an extra late pick. There must be some chance that we are looking to trade a player for a third or fourth round pick. There is no possibility that player will be Hickey who is the only ruckman on our list who can find the ball around the ground and is still improving.

The two players that look sure to go, to me at least are:

Simpkin
He always gives his best but both Lee and Goddard are preferred to match up on talls at Sandy and we have Shenton and Roberton in the next bracket. In his senior appearances and he's had plenty of chances, to date his disposal and decision making haven't been good.

Pierce
I don't care how slowly ruckmen are said to develop this guy is in his third year and he has shown nothing. An average ruck, a stranger to the ball and playing in the two's at Sandy. He was a speculative late pick and the club should show some guts and delist him.

Then in order: Markworth or White

If either Schneider or Fisher (again) are injured this season they'll retire.

[Con Gorozidis]

I would be genuinely shocked if Schneider and Fisher went on next year. I think it is highly unlikely. I also think Ray should go.
That's still leaves us with veterans (2016):

Roo - 33
Joey - 32
Dempster - 32
Gilbert - 29

Then Armo and Geary after that.

Apart from that Siposs and Simpkin are highly likely to go as much as Simpkin is a genuine warrior, maybe another club will throw him a lifeline? Unlikely but I hope so.

White obviously in deep trouble and we have one too many ruckmen.

[ROLS-LEE]

There won't be much movement as the draft isn't deep and we have a lot of players 23 or under who will get one more year to show that they can play the game at the highest level.

There must be some chance that one of White, Siposs or Markworth will be shuffled to the rookie list which would mean that we only have to delist 3 players or 4 if we are looking for an extra late pick. There must be some chance that we are looking to trade a player for a third or fourth round pick. There is no possibility that player will be Hickey who is the only ruckman on our list who can find the ball around the ground and is still improving.

The two players that look sure to go, to me at least are:

Simpkin
He always gives his best but both Lee and Goddard are preferred to match up on talls at Sandy and we have Shenton and Roberton in the next bracket. In his senior appearances and he's had plenty of chances, to date his disposal and decision making haven't been good.

Pierce
I don't care how slowly ruckmen are said to develop this guy is in his third year and he has shown nothing. An average ruck, a stranger to the ball and playing in the two's at Sandy. He was a speculative late pick and the club should show some guts and delist him.

Then in order: Markworth or White

If either Schneider or Fisher (again) are injured this season they'll retire.

I was thinking that maybe Simpkin would replace a Dempster once Dempster retires. He would suit that role but not as a KPP.

[Con Gorozidis]

There won't be much movement as the draft isn't deep and we have a lot of players 23 or under who will get one more year to show that they can play the game at the highest level.

There must be some chance that one of White, Siposs or Markworth will be shuffled to the rookie list which would mean that we only have to delist 3 players or 4 if we are looking for an extra late pick. There must be some chance that we are looking to trade a player for a third or fourth round pick. There is no possibility that player will be Hickey who is the only ruckman on our list who can find the ball around the ground and is still improving.

The two players that look sure to go, to me at least are:

Simpkin
He always gives his best but both Lee and Goddard are preferred to match up on talls at Sandy and we have Shenton and Roberton in the next bracket. In his senior appearances and he's had plenty of chances, to date his disposal and decision making haven't been good.

Pierce
I don't care how slowly ruckmen are said to develop this guy is in his third year and he has shown nothing. An average ruck, a stranger to the ball and playing in the two's at Sandy. He was a speculative late pick and the club should show some guts and delist him.

Then in order: Markworth or White

If either Schneider or Fisher (again) are injured this season they'll retire.

I was thinking that maybe Simpkin would replace a Dempster once Dempster retires. He would suit that role but not as a KPP.

Remember we also have Roberton and Shenton who can play down back. Unfortunately Simpkin is a fair way back in the pecking order. I do love the bloke though.

[MC Gusto]

We traded pick 13 for hickey and a couple of pick upgrades a couple of years back. I would be astonished if we were to trade him at seasons end...unless we were offered a top 10 pick which will not happen.

[Vazelos]

I agree of the veterans Schneider and Gilbert are the 2 I would let go.
The rest still have value to bring unless their bodies don't hold up.
One more year for Fisher and Ray and the rest look at year by year.
If their form holds up why can't they play on. You only have to look at Fletcher for inspiration.
We have said Simpkin and Saad look likely to go.
2016 will be a make or break year for those 3 to 4 year players who are playing at Sandringham and can't crack a senior position.
Siposs Markworth Curran Saunders Lee Wright etc have next year to stake a claim.

[james rose]

Rookies
Schneider- done
Saad- done

Senior players
Fisher- to rookie list or done
Ray or Siposs- done
White- done
Simpkin- done


That's plenty of change to the list for one year imo.

4 draft picks.

if they decide there are 5 in the national draft they want then drop both Siposs and Ray instead of just one..

Then next year another 4-6 changes.

[saintsRrising]

Fisher would not be rookie listed. Is way too old for that.
Continued injury issues I think will see him gone.
Supect that Schneider may go. Other "oldies' to stay.

Simpkin and White are probably the two who at this stage are definitely gone.

Then there is a bunch of others whose second half of the season and how they respond to the coaches will determine their fate.

Suspect Curran may go despite his contract.

[Con Gorozidis]

Rookies
Schneider- done
Saad- done

Senior players
Fisher- to rookie list or done
Ray or Siposs- done
White- done
Simpkin- done


That's plenty of change to the list for one year imo.

4 draft picks.

if they decide there are 5 in the national draft they want then drop both Siposs and Ray instead of just one..

Then next year another 4-6 changes.

Sounds about right.

[bergholt]

Either way I think from names posted we all agree this list has probably got another 5-8 replacements needed to improve it
Somebig drafting to come..

Agreed. At least 8 players short. maybe more depending on who improves.

I reckon there are about 15 who don't look likely to be around when we're a finals contender again. Definitely:

Siposs, Lee, Markworth, Schneider (r), Ray, White, Fisher, Curren, Simpkin, Saad (r), Shenton, Minchington

That's a lot who need to exit the list in the next few years. Regardless of the depth of this year's draft, we'll need to push three or four of these out just to make a start.

We also should be getting more games into these guys who have question marks:

Templeton, Savage, Ross, Gilbert, Murdoch, Wright, Saunders, Pierce

At the moment I'd say we haven't seen enough of any of these guys to make a call, so none will go this year. Would love to see some of them cement a spot though - that would speed up the rebuild.

[plugger66]

Either way I think from names posted we all agree this list has probably got another 5-8 replacements needed to improve it
Somebig drafting to come..

Agreed. At least 8 players short. maybe more depending on who improves.

I reckon there are about 15 who don't look likely to be around when we're a finals contender again. Definitely:

Siposs, Lee, Markworth, Schneider (r), Ray, White, Fisher, Curren, Simpkin, Saad (r), Shenton, Minchington

That's a lot who need to exit the list in the next few years. Regardless of the depth of this year's draft, we'll need to push three or four of these out just to make a start.

We also should be getting more games into these guys who have question marks:

Templeton, Savage, Ross, Gilbert, Murdoch, Wright, Saunders, Pierce

At the moment I'd say we haven't seen enough of any of these guys to make a call, so none will go this year. Would love to see some of them cement a spot though - that would speed up the rebuild.

My 8 was out of our best 22 at the moment. I totally agree there are many young and old not going to be around in 3 years. Your list looks very close plus others from the last 2 drafts that are to early to call. Anyone thinking we aren't that far from it player wise are overating our players or in fantasyland.

[WinnersOnly]

I believe its time for Fisher & Schnieder to retire.
Trade Gilbert in a package deal.
White delisted or traded.

Thats 4 off the senior list and with a very shallow draft I cant see much more turnover than that unless the trade in a player.

Ray to remain on a 1 year contract.
Markworth placed on to rookie list.
.

[samuraisaint]

Judging by AR's comments in the age yestidday - Fisher shouldn't miss too many games - is a signal that he is facing a lengthy period out again - back related hamstring by the sound of it.There was a fantastic idea raised by one of the posters on this board yesterday somewhere that we should play Gilbert, Ray, Schneider and Fisher against Freo at Docklands and give them that as their farewell. Lyon and Dawson would be there, and we'd also have Roo, Joey and Dempster in. Could be a great day and a ceremonial to some great players during a successful era for the club. Gilbert might be looked at for a trade by GWS or Gold Coast.

[samuraisaint]

A lot of teams have rucks.

Not a lot of teams have great ruck depth.

IMO we go three deep if we had to.

Billy and Hickey have currency.

I reckon they will be looking to have three picks inside the top 25 again.

Then why not trade Holmes or Lewis Pierce? Sorry, I don't want to see another player who we are developing get traded for someone who might, or might not, make it. What if we trade Hickey and Longer goes down with a knee in the pre-season? Look at Essendon; have to let Ryder go, but they have Bellchambers and Giles, except problem is neither of them can get near it and now Bellchambers is injured, as is the forward they play in the ruck sometimes, Carlisle.
Poor list management IF that is what they are planning for mine.

[samuraisaint]

A lot of teams have rucks.

Not a lot of teams have great ruck depth.

IMO we go three deep if we had to.

Billy and Hickey have currency.

I reckon they will be looking to have three picks inside the top 25 again.

Then why not trade Holmes or Lewis Pierce? Sorry, I don't want to see another player who we are developing get traded for someone who might, or might not, make it. What if we trade Hickey and Longer goes down with a knee in the pre-season? Look at Essendon; have to let Ryder go, but they have Bellchambers and Giles, except problem is neither of them can get near it and now Bellchambers is injured, as is the forward they play in the ruck sometimes, Carlisle.
Poor list management IF that is what they are planning for mine.

I saw Hickey kick a goal from a mile out at Sandy on Sunday and I would rather not give that away.

[Dis Believer]

A lot of teams have rucks.

Not a lot of teams have great ruck depth.

IMO we go three deep if we had to.

Billy and Hickey have currency.

I reckon they will be looking to have three picks inside the top 25 again.

Then why not trade Holmes or Lewis Pierce? Sorry, I don't want to see another player who we are developing get traded for someone who might, or might not, make it. What if we trade Hickey and Longer goes down with a knee in the pre-season? Look at Essendon; have to let Ryder go, but they have Bellchambers and Giles, except problem is neither of them can get near it and now Bellchambers is injured, as is the forward they play in the ruck sometimes, Carlisle.
Poor list management IF that is what they are planning for mine.

I saw Hickey kick a goal from a mile out at Sandy on Sunday and I would rather not give that away.

This. Anyone who thinks that either Longer or Hickey (potentially gun rucks in their early twenties) should be traded inside the next two years is on drugs !!

[Pleasing]

Out of Contract at the end of the year are:

Primary List:
Fisher
Gilbert
Dempster
Ray
Siposs
Simpkin
Markworth
White
Pierce
Minchington

Rookie:
Saad
Payne
Schnieder

Based on that I would guess:
1. One or both of Fisher and Dempster will retire
2. Simpkin will be delisted
3. Schnieder will Retire

Given Sinclair will be elevated to the senior list which his resigning confirmed.

Not sure how long we can keep Holmes on the Rookie list either but presume it is at least 1 more year.

Opens up: 1 to 2 Primary List spots and 2 Rookie Spots which is not enough so more will go.

We will need: At least 4 Primary List Spots - 3 for the Draft and 1 for Sinclair. If we intend to trade we will need even more spots so we will need to shed between 2 and 4 of the remaining Primary List players coming out of contract.

IMO:
1. Ray has just about served his purpose and whilst probably more deserving of a spot on the list may be a candidate to drop back to the Rookie list like Schnieder did last year. Is a depth player only now I believe.
2. Pierce still seems a long way off and with Longer Hickey and Holmes in front of him time may be up. An over the top trade offer for Hickey may alter this.
3. White and Sipposs have not done their chances any favors this year White in particular appears further away now than ever before, but both have big upside if their application ever matches their talent. I am up for one more year with both not sure the club is however.
4. Markworth unfortunately sometimes players just don't have the bodies for AFL he looks like one of them. I really want to see him make it but he will need to play out the remainder of the season and be pushing for selection one more injury and I think he is gone.
5. Gilbert stays we have invested in him and he will be required if Fish and/or Dempster retire
6. Minchington may have blown his chance I expect him to be dropped this week appears to be a VFL level footballer shame I prefer him to Curren and Saunders who by dint of their contracts remain safe this year.

I hate to see potential go to waste so in a fit of blind optimism I would keep White Sipposs and Markworth and Convince Dempster to go one more year, Rookie Ray then delist Pierce and Minchington.

So:
OUT: Fisher Simpkin Pierce Minchington Ray(re-rookied)
IN: Sinclair - Trade - Draft Picks 1, 2 and 3

However Richo appears more focused on rewarding actual performance so the reverse will probably happen White Sipposs and Markworth gone Ray Pierce and Minchington stay.

[bergholt]

Contracts don't really matter. We can afford to pay out one more year of a couple of guys if we desperately need to. Certainly wouldn't expect that to keep Curren or Saunders on the list if Richo and Baines think they're not good enough.

[Armoooo]

Given the position of our list I don’t think that we can afford to offload everyone over 30 at this stage so we need to consider which of them are most expendable. For me the two most obvious ones are Farren Ray and Adam Schneider, we have enough options that keeping them on the list for another year would be detrimental for our lists development.
I would look at the list like this:

1st Tier (Core Players):

Jack Steven

Luke Dunstan

Blake Acres

Leigh Montagna

Nick Riewoldt

Jarryn Geary

Jack Billings

Jack Newnes

Dylan Roberton

David Armitage

Josh Bruce

Jimmy Webster

Paddy McCartin

Hugh Goddard

Daniel McKenzie

Jack Lonie

Mav Weller

Jack Sinclair

2nd Tier (Keepers):

Tom Hickey

Eli Templeton

Shane Savage

Sebastian Ross

Tom Lee

Billy Longer

Luke Delaney

Sean Dempster

Tim Membrey

Nathan Wright

Cameron Shenton

3rd Tier (Probable Keepers):

Tom Curren

Brodie Murdoch

Josh Saunders

Darren Minchington

Lewis Pierce

Brenton Payne

Jason Holmes

4th Tier (In Danger):

Arryn Siposs

Daniel Markworth

Sam Gilbert

Farren Ray

Spencer White

Sam Fisher

5th Tier (Gone):

Tom Simpkin

Adam Schneider (Rookie)

Ahmed Saad (Rookie)

At this stage I think I would be making the following changes:

Out: Aaryn Siposs (Re-Rookie), Sam Gilbert (Trade / Delist), Sam Fisher (Retire), Farren Ray (Trade / Delist), Adam Schneider (Retire), Ahmed Saad (Delist)

In: 1st Round Pick, 2nd Round Pick, 3rd Round Pick, 4th Round Pick, 1st Round Rookie, Aaryn Siposs (Rookie)

For list purposes I would keep Sinclair on the rookie list as the designated player, but I still have him as a starting 22 player.