Gilbert cost us the game!

[james rose]

Easily in our best 18 you negative flogs.

[plugger66]

Made some bad mistakes and if was all about kicking then he did cost us the game however he also stopped about 3 certain shots on goal because of his pace and determination. Is certainly in our best 22 and those calling him and Schneider heads will either be disappointed, wrong or very upset next week. Neither are going anywhere.

What last night was, was a wasted win. We were clearly the best side but we blew it. Sad when you don't win a lot. Also for such a low scoring game it was the most taxing game I think I have ever seen. The players looked like they did after the siren of the drawn GF in 2010. They were stuffed.

[Junction Oval]

As others have said, it was a typical Gilbert game - some great efforts, negated a couple of atrocious/costly kicking errors.

If only he/we could fix his kicking

[whiskers3614]

Made some bad mistakes and if was all about kicking then he did cost us the game however he also stopped about 3 certain shots on goal because of his pace and determination. Is certainly in our best 22 and those calling him and Schneider heads will either be disappointed, wrong or very upset next week. Neither are going anywhere.

What last night was, was a wasted win. We were clearly the best side but we blew it. Sad when you don't win a lot. Also for such a low scoring game it was the most taxing game I think I have ever seen. The players looked like they did after the siren of the drawn GF in 2010. They were stuffed.

Some sort of different game plan in the first half?
Is Richardson trying to teach them more than one way to play?

[plugger66]

Made some bad mistakes and if was all about kicking then he did cost us the game however he also stopped about 3 certain shots on goal because of his pace and determination. Is certainly in our best 22 and those calling him and Schneider heads will either be disappointed, wrong or very upset next week. Neither are going anywhere.

What last night was, was a wasted win. We were clearly the best side but we blew it. Sad when you don't win a lot. Also for such a low scoring game it was the most taxing game I think I have ever seen. The players looked like they did after the siren of the drawn GF in 2010. They were stuffed.

Some sort of different game plan in the first half?
Is Richardson trying to teach them more than one way to play?

Asking the wrong person. Im not smart enough to understand any game plan let alone a different one. I reckon you need to be on the inside to understand that stuff. I think AR just thought we could out play them. I don't think either side tagged anyone. WB rarely tag but we usually do. Im not sure we did last night though so it may have been something different.

[saintsRrising]

Yep, Gilbert made a few mistakes but this thread is a f****** joke, The whole team turned it over so many times to blame one bloke is ridiculous. Roo missed a kick to a player 15 meters away, Schneider missed at least 3 handballs, Steven kicked it directly to the opposition so many times, in fact we gave up 8 of the 9 goals the Bulldogs kicked.
But hey, we all feel better kicking the s*** out of a few players

Agree. Asa team we were shocking with disposal last night. Great in tackling, endeavour etc....but very poor in kicking.
At least Gilberts were under pressure.

ie Joey and Steven both had costly turnovers when running clear in space.

[Life Long Saint]

The coach was clearly disappointed with Gilbert as a defender last night. To the point that he moved him to the forward line. His kicking is adequate only when he kicks long. When he tries to pin point a target short range, he is a dead-set liability.

For mine, it's time to see what Tom Lee can do as a defender. He is killing it in the twos...I'm not sure what he has to do to get a run.
Even if Lee doesn't get a run, a fit Fisher comes in to the team at the expense of Gilbert.
Every other defender did their job well last night.
Delaney played well on Boyd and needed the confidence boost after Hogan got the better of him last game. Dempster, Webster and Geary were all solid.

[loris]

No matter how many positives Sam has he's always been capable of having negatives that outweigh all the good he might do.

(dopey darcy made a comment about how good a kick gilbo was - just another affirmation about how little he knows about footy!)

Was it Darcy? Wondered who it was, we were watching the game and fell around the room laughing when we heard the comment, " Gilbert is one of the better kicks in the AFL", we were waiting for him (Darcy) to re-call that remark, when Gilbert promptly turned it over time and time again.

He cost us 3 goals to WB and looking at the vision of Gilbert at the end of the game, lying distraught on his back on the ground with his head in his hands, he possibly knew that more than any other player in the team he cost us the game.

[samuraisaint]

The coach was clearly disappointed with Gilbert as a defender last night. To the point that he moved him to the forward line. His kicking is adequate only when he kicks long. When he tries to pin point a target short range, he is a dead-set liability.

For mine, it's time to see what Tom Lee can do as a defender. He is killing it in the twos...I'm not sure what he has to do to get a run.
Even if Lee doesn't get a run, a fit Fisher comes in to the team at the expense of Gilbert.
Every other defender did their job well last night.
Delaney played well on Boyd and needed the confidence boost after Hogan got the better of him last game. Dempster, Webster and Geary were all solid.

To be fair, Gilbert had the better of Stringer last night. But on your second point; we have been waiting for a fit Fisher for three or four seasons now. We need to start trying different key position defenders now, from next week. Webster was really good last night. There's a defender who can really use the ball, and in traffic too.

[Con Gorozidis]

Gilbert also had the flu. Should not really have played. When fit always worth his place.

Gilbo has been torching it and turning it over for four or five years now.

[ShanghaiSaint]

Gilbert also had the flu. Should not really have played. When fit always worth his place.

Gilbo has been torching it and turning it over for four or five years now.

Con we were told last night Gilbo is one of he better players by foot in he AFL. come on don't you listen to the expert CH7 callers?

we all know Gilbo can boot a shocker but he makes up for it a lot of other areas. he really help shut down the Doggie danger pups... that Eastern wood was a bigger issue for us.

[Saints43]

It seems to me that if Gilbert stopped attempting to run with the ball and create for us going forward his game would be better received?

If he did nothing but kick the ball into dogs players, boot it as far as he could without looking, just hang back on his man and make sure he didn't touch it but walked off having destroyed Stringer a lot of people would be happier, yeah?

It's incredible that on a night when we set a world record for turnovers that there's a thread about one bloke. If a turnover doesn't result in the next kick being a goal then it doesn't matter....

[samuraisaint]

No matter how many positives Sam has he's always been capable of having negatives that outweigh all the good he might do.

(dopey darcy made a comment about how good a kick gilbo was - just another affirmation about how little he knows about footy!)

Was it Darcy? Wondered who it was, we were watching the game and fell around the room laughing when we heard the comment, " Gilbert is one of the better kicks in the AFL", we were waiting for him (Darcy) to re-call that remark, when Gilbert promptly turned it over time and time again.

He cost us 3 goals to WB and looking at the vision of Gilbert at the end of the game, lying distraught on his back on the ground with his head in his hands, he possibly knew that more than any other player in the team he cost us the game.

But it's also fair to say that when you are in the backline all of your mistakes are magnified. We need to convert better inside the forward 50 as well. Our field kicking in general isn't great - bottom four level, but we will know more about where we really are at the end of the year.
If we can get even just two more wins this year, that is a truly massive result. In fact, depending on which team it is, even one more win means we have probably exceeded expectations. I would like us to remain competitive right up until the end of the year, and not get any 100 point blowouts, and try to keep our losses to the Ports, Sydneys, Geelongs, Norths and West Coast in Perth to under 50 points. Better conversion in front of goal will help - to state the obvious.

[spert]

A worry to me was the poor skills from our more experienced players, resulting in turnovers and goals to the WB- not good leadership. I can wear younger inexperienced players doing this, but they actually used the ball better than Gilbert, Steven and Monty in some cases. I've been more disappointed with Steven's poor disposals this season, he gets a lot of the ball but he just doesn't hurt the opposition enough.

[Life Long Saint]

A worry to me was the poor skills from our more experienced players, resulting in turnovers and goals to the WB- not good leadership. I can wear younger inexperienced players doing this, but they actually used the ball better than Gilbert, Steven and Monty in some cases. I've been more disappointed with Steven's poor disposals this season, he gets a lot of the ball but he just doesn't hurt the opposition enough.

That's spot on.
I expect Joey, Schneider and Steven to hit targets with monotonous regularity.
Gilbert has never been able to and won't ever improve.
Steven made two howlers passing to Roo.
Schneider consistently missed targets by hand and foot. And rarely takes the first option instead he tries for the high risk, high reward option.
Joey has suffered in the past few years by being the "main man" in the middle. He is an outside player and seems panicked and rushed when he has to play the inside role. He has benefitted from Armo's improvement but he still seems down on confidence.

Not sure why we are sticking with Gilbert when Dempster plays the same role ten times better. For me, it's time to give Tom Lee a go in the seniors as a defender. Delaney will go to Daniher, Dempster will go to Carlisle so let Lee come in a take the third Essendon forward. Let's see what he's got!

[Megamaguire]

Getting the ball into the Fwd. 50 wasn't the problem but regularly lacking the scoreboard payback just encouraged the Dogs to hang in there. Eastwood (sorry spelling) was good for them. Bruce passed nicely to a few fwd. leads as well. Strategies and heightened player familiarity will / should improve finishing off. I was impressed with the ammount of in-close pressure the Saint
s generated esp. upto 1/2 time.
2nd. game back for Gilbe and a few clangers made him look ordinary but he had some good disposals as well to be fair.
Better finishing could have sunk the Dogs early but I guess that is for another week.

G O S A I N T S !

[stkfc1]

Yep, Gilbert made a few mistakes but this thread is a f****** joke. T he whole team turned it over so many times to blame one bloke is ridiculous. Roo missed a kick to a player 15 meters away, Schneider mistargetst least 3 handballs, Steven kicked it directly to the opposition so many times, in fact we gave up 8 of the 9 goals the Bulldogs kicked.
But we all feel better kicking the s*** out of a few players

Agree. As a team we were shocking with disposal last night. Great in tackling, endeavour etc....but very poor in kicking.
At least Gilberts were under pressure.
ie Joey and Steven both had costly turnovers when running clear in space.

Spot on. Just watched replay and Gilberts kicks were both under pressure and he had very little support. Theses turnovers always look bad when they result in goals but I reckon the coach would be more annoyed at the turnovers where we just totally missed targets with little or no pressure. 21 turnover kicks. Gibert had two. So 19 others also let the team down. Maybe its coming of the bye. Tiges were awful against WC then turned it around this week. Expect us to do the same. Im more concerned about our F50 entries. If you want to be annoyed be annoyed with that. It was dumb football. We should have won by 3 goals. Gilbert coming back from a long layoff. He's not the problem. We missed Billings and Sinclairs class up forward. Simple as that.

[samuraisaint]

A worry to me was the poor skills from our more experienced players, resulting in turnovers and goals to the WB- not good leadership. I can wear younger inexperienced players doing this, but they actually used the ball better than Gilbert, Steven and Monty in some cases. I've been more disappointed with Steven's poor disposals this season, he gets a lot of the ball but he just doesn't hurt the opposition enough.

That's spot on.
I expect Joey, Schneider and Steven to hit targets with monotonous regularity.
Gilbert has never been able to and won't ever improve.
Steven made two howlers passing to Roo.
Schneider consistently missed targets by hand and foot. And rarely takes the first option instead he tries for the high risk, high reward option.
Joey has suffered in the past few years by being the "main man" in the middle. He is an outside player and seems panicked and rushed when he has to play the inside role. He has benefitted from Armo's improvement but he still seems down on confidence.

Not sure why we are sticking with Gilbert when Dempster plays the same role ten times better. For me, it's time to give Tom Lee a go in the seniors as a defender. Delaney will go to Daniher, Dempster will go to Carlisle so let Lee come in a take the third Essendon forward. Let's see what he's got!

Carlisle is injured - got hurt in the final minute of Saturday game; not expected to play Sunday.
Watson is also injured - shoulder; played in forward pocket for the whole game against Hawthorn.

[Life Long Saint]

A worry to me was the poor skills from our more experienced players, resulting in turnovers and goals to the WB- not good leadership. I can wear younger inexperienced players doing this, but they actually used the ball better than Gilbert, Steven and Monty in some cases. I've been more disappointed with Steven's poor disposals this season, he gets a lot of the ball but he just doesn't hurt the opposition enough.

That's spot on.
I expect Joey, Schneider and Steven to hit targets with monotonous regularity.
Gilbert has never been able to and won't ever improve.
Steven made two howlers passing to Roo.
Schneider consistently missed targets by hand and foot. And rarely takes the first option instead he tries for the high risk, high reward option.
Joey has suffered in the past few years by being the "main man" in the middle. He is an outside player and seems panicked and rushed when he has to play the inside role. He has benefitted from Armo's improvement but he still seems down on confidence.

Not sure why we are sticking with Gilbert when Dempster plays the same role ten times better. For me, it's time to give Tom Lee a go in the seniors as a defender. Delaney will go to Daniher, Dempster will go to Carlisle so let Lee come in a take the third Essendon forward. Let's see what he's got!

Carlisle is injured - got hurt in the final minute of Saturday game; not expected to play Sunday.
Watson is also injured - shoulder; played in forward pocket for the whole game against Hawthorn.

Even better with Carlisle out. Lee should play this week!

[plugger66]

A worry to me was the poor skills from our more experienced players, resulting in turnovers and goals to the WB- not good leadership. I can wear younger inexperienced players doing this, but they actually used the ball better than Gilbert, Steven and Monty in some cases. I've been more disappointed with Steven's poor disposals this season, he gets a lot of the ball but he just doesn't hurt the opposition enough.

That's spot on.
I expect Joey, Schneider and Steven to hit targets with monotonous regularity.
Gilbert has never been able to and won't ever improve.
Steven made two howlers passing to Roo.
Schneider consistently missed targets by hand and foot. And rarely takes the first option instead he tries for the high risk, high reward option.
Joey has suffered in the past few years by being the "main man" in the middle. He is an outside player and seems panicked and rushed when he has to play the inside role. He has benefitted from Armo's improvement but he still seems down on confidence.

Not sure why we are sticking with Gilbert when Dempster plays the same role ten times better. For me, it's time to give Tom Lee a go in the seniors as a defender. Delaney will go to Daniher, Dempster will go to Carlisle so let Lee come in a take the third Essendon forward. Let's see what he's got!

Carlisle is injured - got hurt in the final minute of Saturday game; not expected to play Sunday.
Watson is also injured - shoulder; played in forward pocket for the whole game against Hawthorn.

Even better with Carlisle out. Lee should play this week!

I wouldn't think he is much of a chance. No one to really play on. Also if Fisher is back he is no hope. I like the one tall back unless we have to play more because the opposition just have to many good tall players.

[Andreous]

In watching the game again I agree that our real problem was the turnovers all over the ground. Gilbert did some really good things - that run leap and punch being the best. Really annoying though when the two turn overs and the dropping the ball in the back line hurt so much.

I also agree that the additional class of Sinclair and Billings probably would have been enough to get us over the line (like last time).

My favourite play of the day was the hardworking goal that was Roo to Bruce to Roo to Bruce and GOAL!!!!!!

[FQF]

Gosh there is a bit of whitewashing going on in this thread. I understand the desire to be moderate and defend Gilbert, and FWIW I have been a pretty staunch supporter throughout, but nothing he did on Saturday night that was positive could outweigh the damage he caused.

I was at the game and sitting in prime position to see all of his blunders in our defensive 50. Yes many other players had clangers, but Gilbert's stand alone. First, they were often on the defensive goal line of all places where the margin for era is miniscule. Second, they were glaringly bad. Twice he did not miss a tough 50-50 target but drilled it down the throat of a WB player thereby missing the Saint who was 15 odd metres away from the ultimate destination of the ball. Third, he is a senior player. Fourth, he did it again and again. It got to the stage where you would not want him touching the ball, and thank heavens Richo finally got him out of the backline where he wouldn't single-handedly hand the match to the dogs on a platter.

I like Gilbert and think his speed and marking is first rate, but I am quite confident in saying that had Fisher (or even Shenton or McKenzie) been playing in his stead, we would have won.

[thejiggingsaint]

I thought Gilbert had an ordinary day. The turnovers weren't confined to just him. I recall Roo taking a mark, and kicking directly to an opponent. Same story with Jack Steven. Look, I'm disappointed at the skill errors from senior players, but can't see the sense in dragging them over the coals NOW. The game is done and dusted, we move on, and (hopefully) Richo will be taking steps to cure the ills seen on Saturday evening.

[St DAC]

Gilbo had a mixed bag of a game; many good things and 1%ers, but several costly turnovers. In that regard he wasn't alone; we kicked as poorly as I can remember, and given we are pretty ordinary with the ball in general that's a big call. Yet IMO he is in our best side for the many good things he does outweighing the few clangers each match.

In simple truth we collectively used the ball too badly to deserve the win. If you want an example of great kicking in that match look at Bob Murphy; his disposal was spot on all night and really hurt us with his accuracy, so it can be done.

[Goose is king]

Finally got around to watching the first three quarters that I missed on Saturday night.
Gilbert stays in the team for mine. Maybe with some more time in the midfield