We will be better than Doggies in long term..

[One Eyed Saint]

- Their list build is two years ahead of us
- Our turnovers (not under pressure) and poor goal kicking gave them the game
- Spending $7m on Boyd will come back to bite them in a few years - he is overrated my personal view
- Goddard, Paddy and Bruce will dominate
- Once Bob Murphy retires they will go back one step.

We will also be in a hole when Nich retires but by end of 2017 Bruce will be dominant, Paddy coming along nicely and our small brigade dominant.

Whilst always disappointed to lose, we are progessing nicely.

I also reckon that we have the better coach and are developing at a faster rate than the doggies.

[supersaints]

Agree, we are catching them fast, they should be about two seasons in front of us, at this stage we look to have more upside.

[LondonSaint]

While we should be positive, but we can need to acknowledge
good opposition.

In terms of list, they are ahead of us. Their good players
are young, Wallace, Johanneson, Bontempelli, Wood, Steven, Macrae.
And they have a lot of good midfield type running players
who can play anywhere on the park.

We are missing these small running players with good skills.
Our best players are still older players, Riewoldt, Montagna, Armitage, Fisher.
even Steven is already 25.

In terms of coach. Both are good coaches into their 1-2 year. So I don't
think our players are developing quicker, it's because we never got the recruiting/developing
right until the last 2 years. Look at Dog's last year's draft. 3 are already playing,
Webb, McLean and Dale.

So they'll be a good side going forward. Whether we'll better than them really depend
on our recruitment/developing in the near 3-5 years.

For example, we needs quicker and better skilled running players in the backline. This will put less pressure
on our mids running back and help. Our backs are mostly static or have questionable
skills (Geary, Gilbert, Dempster). It is no wonder dogs have Johanneson, Wood, Murphy and
Boyd in their backline. Because they can all kick well and attack.

[The Fireman]

thought the same thing tonight

[Old Mate]

Given where our lists are they should've flogged us. We've got some serious A graders developing in the VFL. More upside when the youngsters develop.

[Con Gorozidis]

Still way too early to make a call like this. Rooey and Joey still contribute a hell of a lot to our side and wont be replaced easily.
Murphy the same for them.

[saintspremiers]

Still way too early to make a call like this. Rooey and Joey still contribute a hell of a lot to our side and wont be replaced easily.
Murphy the same for them.

The way Roo and Joey are going they may both have 2 further seasons left in them. Would make a huge difference if so.

[Vazelos]

Considering where they should be I don't think a 6 point win with less scoring shots is anything to crow about.
Mc Cartin Billings Goddard Mc Kenzie and Sinclair are all definite top prospects in our best 22 very soon. Hickey should turn it around also.
That's 5 to 6 players to come in to that side. I think only Roo is irreplaceable, the rest like Montagna Farren Ray and especially Schneider and Gilbert will be replaced adequately.
Some others like Eli Templeton may take the next step also.
Plenty of upside in our team as the young players take the next step.
Still some players to be found in the next 2 years, an elite mid fielder a necessity.
It's all good, we keep building and improving for 2018-20.

[Teflon]

Must find and get elite midfielder who can use the ball
Simy not negotiable

[Con Gorozidis]

Still way too early to make a call like this. Rooey and Joey still contribute a hell of a lot to our side and wont be replaced easily.
Murphy the same for them.

The way Roo and Joey are going they may both have 2 further seasons left in them. Would make a huge difference if so.

But they cant play forever. The thread title says ' in long term.'

[Bunk_Moreland]

Must find and get elite midfielder who can use the ball
Simy not negotiable

Parish is our No1 target. Mathesion is No.2

[Teflon]

Must find and get elite midfielder who can use the ball
Simy not negotiable

Parish is our No1 target. Mathesion is No.2

Good to hear Bunk
That sorta polish with Billings eventually moving through their will be important for us class wise

[FQF]

We need 2 elite midfielders minimum from either draft, trade or FA. We need guys with speed and polish like McKenzie, Markworth, Eli to force their way into the side. It would be a huge lift to the team if Wright could clean up his disposal too as he has some of the best attacking traits on our list. I would be considering Lee as an inclusion too given his field kicking.

Billings, Sinclair, even Eli all have very clean ball use and will improve our team once form/injury permits.

[plugger66]

No idea who will be better long term. All I care about is now and that was a wasted win. We were better last night.

[samuraisaint]

Well, that's 3 hours I'll never get back. They had 5 teenagers in the team that beat us last night. That last passage of play where we won the ball out of defence, took it up the wing quickly, and then kicked it straight to a Doggies player on his own and in the centre of the ground - instead of to one of our forwards to hopefully draw the match epitomised the night for me.
I love the optimism on here, but apart from the Hawks, and maybe Essendon, we haven't played anyone of quality yet. It is great we have won 4 games - I thought 2 this year, but on last night's performance we are years away. If anyone thinks we will win any of the games in the last 6 rounds, I recommend you don't delude yourself. We might be competitive in a few, but that's about it.
Hickey needs to come back in - Longer needs a rest or at least a chop out. Membrey doesn't offer enough yet for mine, but should be persevered with. Gilbert can come out and Goddard can get a chance. We need to find a replacement for Fisher as it seems that he is at the end.
Their 5 kids were not that great last night, but the game was played in the biggest flood since the games of 2002.

[plugger66]

Well, that's 3 hours I'll never get back. They had 5 teenagers in the team that beat us last night. That last passage of play where we won the ball out of defence, took it up the wing quickly, and then kicked it straight to a Doggies player on his own and in the centre of the ground - instead of to one of our forwards to hopefully draw the match epitomised the night for me.
I love the optimism on here, but apart from the Hawks, and maybe Essendon, we haven't played anyone of quality yet. It is great we have won 4 games - I thought 2 this year, but on last night's performance we are years away. If anyone thinks we will win any of the games in the last 6 rounds, I recommend you don't delude yourself. We might be competitive in a few, but that's about it.
Hickey needs to come back in - Longer needs a rest or at least a chop out. Membrey doesn't offer enough yet for mine, but should be persevered with. Gilbert can come out and Goddard can get a chance. We need to find a replacement for Fisher as it seems that he is at the end.
Their 5 kids were not that great last night, but the game was played in the biggest flood since the games of 2002.

Funny but apart from the result I loved the game. The pace of it was fantastic. Up and back all night. Limited skills though. I think last night showed how much we have improved this year. We are a genuinely tough side.

[samuraisaint]

I think the Doggies have done a massive job reinvigorating their list. They have had Callan Ward, Ryan Griffen and Jarrod Harbrow poached by the two expansion teams, they have traded off Higgins and Cooney, retired Gianseracusa, and have covered them all amazingly well.
They had 5 teenagers in their side last night and had us matched for physicality - quite a feat considering we are a noted 'pressure side' despite our bottom side status.
I would really like to see us try Goddard at FB, Paddy at FF, Hickey rotating through the ruck/resting up forward, and Dan Mac in the side for the next four games, before we start to play the good sides, then we can bring back Billings, try Lee again maybe in the back line, and give White one last chance at FF.
If we can win one more game - or maybe pinch two, that would be a massive result. Not too many on here, and definitely not I, would have dreamed that we were capable of winning 6 games this year - and actually, I still don't.
I still don't believe we have replacements for Roo, Joey, Dempster or Fisher on the list yet.

[plugger66]

I think the Doggies have done a massive job reinvigorating their list. They have had Callan Ward, Ryan Griffen and Jarrod Harbrow poached by the two expansion teams, they have traded off Higgins and Cooney, retired Gianseracusa, and have covered them all amazingly well.
They had 5 teenagers in their side last night and had us matched for physicality - quite a feat considering we are a noted 'pressure side' despite our bottom side status.
I would really like to see us try Goddard at FB, Paddy at FF, Hickey rotating through the ruck/resting up forward, and Dan Mac in the side for the next four games, before we start to play the good sides, then we can bring back Billings, try Lee again maybe in the back line, and give White one last chance at FF.
If we can win one more game - or maybe pinch two, that would be a massive result. Not too many on here, and definitely not I, would have dreamed that we were capable of winning 6 games this year - and actually, I still don't.
I still don't believe we have replacements for Roo, Joey, Dempster or Fisher on the list yet.

Couple of things. Whats this 4 games thing? I don't get it because I know people will be calling for a players head if they have one bad game let alone 4. Also who do these guys actually replace?

And I think you have it arse about. I would have the experienced players in when we play the sides we can beat and the younger players in when we probably cant win. And White doesn't deserve any chances until he makes a chance for himself.

[samuraisaint]

Bit harsh to drop a young player after one poor game. We haven't done it to many other senior players who have had poor matches, such as Gilbert last night, and Ray last year. Giuve 'em 4 weeks to get the pace of the big dance. Would've thought that that would have been self-evident, or logical. Goddard could replace Gilbert or come in instead of Fisher.
McCartin could come in for Schneids - not like for like, but it doesn't have to be. Hickey just needs to come back in anyway. We need a second ruck, and another tall marking forward option. With Essendon's ruck issues, playing Hickey and Longer together would really stretch them. Their midfield is in trouble anyway, because Watson is injured again.
I wouldn't like to see us playing too much inexperience against Sydney, Geelong, Freo or West Coast in Perth, because if we lose by too much it can set development back. I don't think any of the changes I suggested make us any less likely to win some or all of the next 4 games - although we won't beat Richmond no matter who we play.
White - well, what is the use of keeping this guy on the list, along with Lee if we aren't going to try them out. We did this sort of thing with Tommy Lynch and where did that get us?

[samuraisaint]

I think the Doggies have done a massive job reinvigorating their list. They have had Callan Ward, Ryan Griffen and Jarrod Harbrow poached by the two expansion teams, they have traded off Higgins and Cooney, retired Gianseracusa, and have covered them all amazingly well.
They had 5 teenagers in their side last night and had us matched for physicality - quite a feat considering we are a noted 'pressure side' despite our bottom side status.
I would really like to see us try Goddard at FB, Paddy at FF, Hickey rotating through the ruck/resting up forward, and Dan Mac in the side for the next four games, before we start to play the good sides, then we can bring back Billings, try Lee again maybe in the back line, and give White one last chance at FF.
If we can win one more game - or maybe pinch two, that would be a massive result. Not too many on here, and definitely not I, would have dreamed that we were capable of winning 6 games this year - and actually, I still don't.
I still don't believe we have replacements for Roo, Joey, Dempster or Fisher on the list yet.

Couple of things. Whats this 4 games thing? I don't get it because I know people will be calling for a players head if they have one bad game let alone 4. Also who do these guys actually replace?

And I think you have it arse about. I would have the experienced players in when we play the sides we can beat and the younger players in when we probably cant win. And White doesn't deserve any chances until he makes a chance for himself.

And these people calling for players' heads don't have any idea. They just want instant gratification.

[plugger66]

Bit harsh to drop a young player after one poor game. We haven't done it to many other senior players who have had poor matches, such as Gilbert last night, and Ray last year. Giuve 'em 4 weeks to get the pace of the big dance. Would've thought that that would have been self-evident, or logical. Goddard could replace Gilbert or come in instead of Fisher.
McCartin could come in for Schneids - not like for like, but it doesn't have to be. Hickey just needs to come back in anyway. We need a second ruck, and another tall marking forward option. With Essendon's ruck issues, playing Hickey and Longer together would really stretch them. Their midfield is in trouble anyway, because Watson is injured again.
I wouldn't like to see us playing too much inexperience against Sydney, Geelong, Freo or West Coast in Perth, because if we lose by too much it can set development back. I don't think any of the changes I suggested make us any less likely to win some or all of the next 4 games - although we won't beat Richmond no matter who we play.
White - well, what is the use of keeping this guy on the list, along with Lee if we aren't going to try them out. We did this sort of thing with Tommy Lynch and where did that get us?

And its unfair on other young kids if you just play guys who aren't up to it because we decide a random number of 4 games. You use Gilbert as example of this but then say replace him with Goddard. It isn't going to happen and Schneider isn't going to be replaced by McCartin. Imagine if they are in and those 2 are out. The balance of the side is stuffed. And Hickey cant play if McCartin did play. The forward line would have Membery, Roo, McCartin, Bruce and Hickey in it. We would be hopeless up forward. The young kids will get games when they deserve it and when there is a spot. As for White he is on the list because we thought he would improve. Just because he is on the list you don't play otherwise why not play Simpkin.

[dragit]

Must find and get elite midfielder who can use the ball
Simy not negotiable

Parish is our No1 target. Mathesion is No.2

I doubt we'll get a look at either of these guys with pick 4 - 5

[samuraisaint]

I think our training and development of Simpkin is an example of our poor development of these types of players to be honest.

[samuraisaint]

Must find and get elite midfielder who can use the ball
Simy not negotiable

Parish is our No1 target. Mathesion is No.2

I doubt we'll get a look at either of these guys with pick 4 - 5

I think Carlton may well finish above us. Melbourne too. We have a far more difficult run home than both of those sides. The two Qld sides will be a toss up for last.

[plugger66]

I think our training and development of Simpkin is an example of our poor development of these types of players to be honest.

So every player drafted is up to senior footy? I don't think it shows ant poor development at all.