I'm torn...

[Teflon]

CW they know that they just dont want to debate the topic because the logic is sound
Far easier to argue using emotion and accusing people of not being supporters and demanding a win every week because thats popular.
I dont think we'll get top 3 pick..

Seriously Teffers, there are about 300 posts debating the topic. You don't like some of things that are being said so you continue to go back to that's the system. It maybe the system but in the end it means jack. There is no proof not winning games helps you to eventually win a flag and I know you haven't said it does but you point of getting a better pick is obviously to help you win a flag even if you haven't said that. People have proven its a rubbish idea but you continue on I take it you find it hard to say the word wrong. It doesn't matter if you don't say it but all it means is when people read your stuff they realise you lack credibility. You repeat the same things over and over again but in the end it just wasted words.

It is better to win every single game you can because of other things rather then pick 3 or pick 5. Its as simple as that.

Honestly Pluggs you accuse us all of saying the same things and have told us that if we lose a couple more games and secure a higher draft selection then no FAs will come to us at least 3 times in this thread already

Regardless, and even though you acknowledge its not my point, you continue to espouse tanking for draft picks doesn't guarantee flags - no Shyte sherlock but again NOT what's being debated here.
Lots of things go into a flag - including luck but without doubt you need talent. It's very simple plugs - right now we are near the bottom cause we aren't as good right now. No shame in that but we do need to bring in talent and while near the bottom, for a short period, I am suggesting we should maximise our draft selection to do this.

Let's try debate this as opposed to drivel about "no flag guarantee" cause as you've admitted that's nit the topic.
Now tell me again why a loss or 2 extra that could net us pick 3 and not pick 5 will damage us irreparably forever - I'm all ears??

[LTN16]

I'm so happy where losing I want draft picks

[Teflon]

And we're all waiting for that list of teams who spent three or more years at or near the bottom and leveraged that into a flag. The way you guys are carrying on there must be heaps of examples. But I can't think of one.

If you can't see that the AFL is not an even playing field and we lack the flag opportunities of Haw, Syd, WC, Coll, Gee then I can't help you.

Why are the Hawks, Geelong and Pies better off than us in attracting players or having better flag opportunities? . Really we need to stop this why us or poor us attitude from our supporters. Any person with a brain knows pick 3 will be better than pick 5 on average but those supporters are shot term thinkers. They fail to see that we now have FA and we also have the ability because of our low SC to attract a young star. Would a 26 FA or a young star be interested in a side stagnating or a side that has genuine excitement. Its amazing how we had won 3 games this time last year and the same again this year but the difference in the media and others perception of things is we now are finally building and on the up. Nothing like that last year. It was all negative. We need to keep building. If we lost every single game for the rest of the year, we would be again called a basket case and would have little or no chance of getting a very good FA or young star. I think people need to really stop and think that short term pick 3 maybe better than pick 5 but long term winning as much as you can will also encourage a FA or a young star to join us.

Lets just try and win every game.

Your saying the same thing again! Without any proof whatsoever, infact you yourself in this thread admit you can't actually the impact of a few extra short term losses

Stop being such a drama queen for gods sake - NO one in this thread has said stay at the bottom for 5 years they have said maximise our opportunities while we are there already.

But do tell how the additional $$ the Hawks get from 60k plus members doesn't equate to better capability off field to develop talent?? Fascinating apparently we aren't cellar dwellers at all financially we just get the most help from the AFL from all clubs cause they like us...
Delusional

[Teflon]

Please answer a simple question.

Why cant we land another A grader or two by way of OOC, DFA or FA?

Let's just look at Free Agency. Here are the free agents in the three years it's existed, sorted by the finishing position of clubs that have taken them:

Clubs in the top four (7 players)

1st place 2014 - Hawthorn - James Frawley (restricted)
2nd place 2013 - Fremantle - Colin Sylvia (unrestricted)
4th place 2012 - Collingwood - Quinten Lynch (unrestricted)
4th place 2012 - Collingwood - Clinton Young (unrestricted)
4th place 2013 - Sydney - Lance Franklin (restricted)
4th place 2014 - North Melbourne - Shaun Higgins (restricted)
4th place 2014 - North Melbourne - Jarrad Waite (unrestricted)

Clubs in the finals but outside the top four (5 players)

5th place 2013 - Port Adelaide - Matt White (unrestricted)
6th place 2012 - Fremantle - Danyle Pearce (restricted)
6th place 2013 - Carlton - Dale Thomas (restricted)
7th place 2012 - Geelong - Jared Rivers (unrestricted)
7th place 2014 - Essendon - Jimmy Gwilt (unrestricted)

Clubs that missed the finals but went OK (6 players)

10th place 2013 - North Melbourne - Nick Dal Santo (restricted)
11th place 2012 - Essendon - Brendon Goddard (restricted)
11th place 2013 - Adelaide - Eddie Betts (restricted)
12th place 2012 - Richmond - Troy Chaplin (restricted)
12th place 2012 - Richmond - Chris Knights (unrestricted)
12th place 2014 - Gold Coast - Nick Malceski (unrestricted)

Clubs that finished in the bottom six spots (4 players)

13th place 2012 - Brisbane - Brent Moloney (restricted)
13th place 2013 - West Coast - Xavier Ellis (unrestricted)
16th place 2012 - Melbourne - Shannon Byrnes (unrestricted)
17th place 2012 - Gold Coast - Tom Murphy (unrestricted)


Not many A-graders in the list at all, but definitely none in the last bracket - those finishing right down the bottom. Take your pick of Moloney, Ellis, Byrnes and Murphy for who's been best or worst, none of them have played more than about 20 games for their new club. And Brisbane won 10 games in 2012 to finish 13th, West Coast won 9 in 2013 to finish in the same spot.

Small sample size, but the evidence so far suggests it's hard to pick up a quality FA if you don't win more than half your games. That's why we won't land an A-grader by FA.

Thanks Berg - more facts debunking another Plugger myth
Those espousing FAs as our saviour to land AGrade talent - what else you got???
Maybe we could just ask them nicely to get to come???

[The Fireman]

I'm so happy where losing I want draft picks

Happy might be a bit over the top but you are on the right track

[LTN16]

I'm so happy where losing I want draft picks

Happy might be a bit over the top but you are on the right track

That why I buy a membership to goto the footy every week wanting us to lose just to get better draft picks..

[Teflon]

Who is last at the moment. The Suns and how many low draft picks have they had.?

It's about the potential of high picks. With their picks they should be going better but as stated ( no guarantees ) but hey gimme those high picks so we can start winning games to attract the FA players.

Do you want us to win today? I certainly do even though we will probably lose by 10 goals.

for fear of repeating myself
yes I do...but if we get done it won't hurt us or me as much knowing we are closer to a better pick.

That is the right attitude. I think the same as most people. My point all along is the day of a game you don't start a thread saying it would be better if we lost a game which is how this thread was started.

Oh I see it's ok to say but just not game day??
Desperate now plugs...,

[kosifantutti]

Interesting the guys who are prepared to accept a loss and just enjoy watching the young players develop are spending the third quarter writing essays.

[LTN16]

Interesting the guys who are prepared to accept a loss and just enjoy watching the young players develop are spending the third quarter writing essays.

It was just 3qt time

[Teflon]

I can't come at tanking. Apart from it being against the rules and contrary to the spirit of the game, it is no fun for supporters.

Playing to lose can never be a good thing.

We should win whenever we can and take the best available talent in the drafts.

We're good at finding bargains going on recent efforts such as Sinclair, Dmac and Lonie. We should aim to become even better.

We should develop these kids better than anyone else does.

We've got a lot of talent coming through and I reckon sometime next season competition for spots will reach critical mass. Then we're ready to soar.

In any case, having a No. 1 pick doesn't guarantee you a champion. Ask any Demons supporter how Jack Watts is going.

Carl nice theory but puts a lot of pressure on to find bargains at 48 each year - won't happen
I like my chances finding a bargain better at 5 or less for a season or 2...no one likes losing but I truly don't feel we have enough cream in our side yet.... draft is our friend right now...

We'll get a top 5 pick this year and possibly next while trying to win, so I don't see what you are moaning about Teffers

No moaning Carl - moaning is what you used to do when you told us GT was our saviour..
I don't expect you to keep up none the same

[The Fireman]

I'm so happy where losing I want draft picks

Happy might be a bit over the top but you are on the right track

That why I buy a membership to goto the footy every week wanting us to lose just to get better draft picks..

good so soon you will get value for money.

[kosifantutti]

Interesting the guys who are prepared to accept a loss and just enjoy watching the young players develop are spending the third quarter writing essays.

It was just 3qt time

There were a couple of long posts before yours.

[Bunk_Moreland]

So there must be some excited Saints supporters who post here tonight. Another 10 goal loss to the team, great for the clubs morale, but wait we will get pick 3 instead of pick 4 which will ensure us a flag.

Wont it guys.

[LTN16]

I'm so happy where losing I want draft picks

Happy might be a bit over the top but you are on the right track

That why I buy a membership to goto the footy every week wanting us to lose just to get better draft picks..

good so soon you will get value for money.

Yeah that theory has worked well for Melbourne so far..

[The Fireman]

So there must be some excited Saints supporters who post here tonight. Another 10 goal loss to the team, great for the clubs morale, but wait we will get pick 3 instead of pick 4 which will ensure us a flag.

Wont it guys.

I feel your pain Joff..but not as much.
I have found solace in the equalization system, I guess it's my own type of trauma therapy. Been so disappointed so many times I have turned to top pick medication.

So many times I have had that feeling of embarrassment, gut hurt , depression after losses like tonight but don't think I am a lesser supporter now because these feelings have been dampened .

I see a rosy future not far off....with some nice picks

PS a few drinks may have helped

[The Fireman]

I'm so happy where losing I want draft picks

Happy might be a bit over the top but you are on the right track

That why I buy a membership to goto the footy every week wanting us to lose just to get better draft picks..

good so soon you will get value for money.

Yeah that theory has worked well for Melbourne so far..

Let's hope it works well for us.

[samuraisaint]

Well, guys, we played some bloody good footy today in patches. I reckon we will win our next four games.

[plugger66]

Who is last at the moment. The Suns and how many low draft picks have they had.?

It's about the potential of high picks. With their picks they should be going better but as stated ( no guarantees ) but hey gimme those high picks so we can start winning games to attract the FA players.

Do you want us to win today? I certainly do even though we will probably lose by 10 goals.

for fear of repeating myself
yes I do...but if we get done it won't hurt us or me as much knowing we are closer to a better pick.

That is the right attitude. I think the same as most people. My point all along is the day of a game you don't start a thread saying it would be better if we lost a game which is how this thread was started.

Oh I see it's ok to say but just not game day??
Desperate now plugs...,

Not as much as you. When did I say I only care on day game? And in a previous post you mention me saying somrthing 3 times. How many time can you mention the system? Id say 40. And what about stats. If we say finishing bottom hasn't meant a flag and show stats to say that you don't like them but then you like Berholt stats to prove what I don't know. If im desperate your just plain struggling.

[Teflon]

I'm not torn today. I want St Kilda to play really well and lose by under 20 points.

So you want us to lose. We can quote you on that?

You have all thread so why stop now?

When in doubt...make it up!!

[Teflon]

Just trying to understand. If people misquote you it's more work from me. Just say if you want us to win or lose.

I think hes saying he wants us to win in the long run....

As a comedian your a good mod.

[Teflon]

Interesting the guys who are prepared to accept a loss and just enjoy watching the young players develop are spending the third quarter writing essays.

Its glass half full stuff - should try it.

The guys telling us the sky will fall in if we lose another game or 3 seem to repeat the same thing over again without saying anything at all related to the thread...?

[Teflon]

So there must be some excited Saints supporters who post here tonight. Another 10 goal loss to the team, great for the clubs morale, but wait we will get pick 3 instead of pick 4 which will ensure us a flag.

Wont it guys.

I feel your pain Joff..but not as much.
I have found solace in the equalization system, I guess it's my own type of trauma therapy. Been so disappointed so many times I have turned to top pick medication.

So many times I have had that feeling of embarrassment, gut hurt , depression after losses like tonight but don't think I am a lesser supporter now because these feelings have been dampened .

I see a rosy future not far off....with some nice picks

PS a few drinks may have helped

Well said Firey

Im not upset - Im a realist...what kind of a peanut expected a win today? Hawks are in their prime and are challenging....we are cellar dwellars for a very good reason......and I too see a very rosy future.......if yoire giving me pick 3 over 4 Im seeing more roses....thanks.

Got to laugh at all the wanna be hero 'supporters' who were so choc full of 'here we come' after we beat up on a dud Lions side in full tank mode...

[Teflon]

Who is last at the moment. The Suns and how many low draft picks have they had.?

It's about the potential of high picks. With their picks they should be going better but as stated ( no guarantees ) but hey gimme those high picks so we can start winning games to attract the FA players.

Do you want us to win today? I certainly do even though we will probably lose by 10 goals.

for fear of repeating myself
yes I do...but if we get done it won't hurt us or me as much knowing we are closer to a better pick.

That is the right attitude. I think the same as most people. My point all along is the day of a game you don't start a thread saying it would be better if we lost a game which is how this thread was started.

Oh I see it's ok to say but just not game day??
Desperate now plugs...,

LOL but your FA theory was gonna save us????????/ Berg may have just shot a hole in that one...
Anyway, doesnt matter I know and YOU know deep down we need to top up as much as we can on as high draft picks as we can get cause today we saw how an A Grade side choc full of talent does it.....
Stick fat Pluggs - plenty more losses to come yet..


Not as much as you. When did I say I only care on day game? And in a previous post you mention me saying somrthing 3 times. How many time can you mention the system? Id say 40. And what about stats. If we say finishing bottom hasn't meant a flag and show stats to say that you don't like them but then you like Berholt stats to prove what I don't know. If im desperate your just plain struggling.

[Teflon]

Well, guys, we played some bloody good footy today in patches. I reckon we will win our next four games.

We did but were slaightered in the middle at times........need to find 1, 2 more A grade mid guns from somewhere IMO we still fall away and lack polish with it.

[citywest]

So there must be some excited Saints supporters who post here tonight. Another 10 goal loss to the team, great for the clubs morale, but wait we will get pick 3 instead of pick 4 which will ensure us a flag.

Wont it guys.

This is the type of post that is ruining this site. This is baiting from one of the worst serial offenders. Nobody is happy we lost by 10 goals. What I and others have said is that (especially for this year and next) we want the Saints to play well and be competitive. We want 2 more seasons of the highest picks possible to round out our rebuild. Then from 2017 onwards win as many games as we possibly can.

Q. Why is that too hard for you to understand BUNK and others? A. Because you are smart arses and just want to cause trouble.