I'm torn...

[asiu]

we could win 4 of that next six if we were redhot

[asiu]

but out on our feet.

Men against boys in reality i'd a thought

[Teflon]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.

But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.

Thats unfair!

Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....

[plugger66]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.

But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.

Thats unfair!

Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....

There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.

[Teflon]

Us poorer clubs MUST make use of the system - the draft has served very well in the past to suggest not using it to our advantage isn't a plank in a long term strategy is ignorant and dumb

... and there endeth the Lesson.

Thank you ball boys and lamingtons.

Well said Wind!

[Teflon]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.

But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.

Thats unfair!

Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....

There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.

Oh I agree there isnt any.
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?
Do we have enough A grade talent now?

[plugger66]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.

But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.

Oh I agree there isnt any.
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?



Thats unfair!

Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....

There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.

The best way to get it is to try every single game and then see where you finish. Hoping to lose or not care if you win just means you should fast forward your life until you hope and want to win every single game we play in.

[Teflon]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

You are being purposely obtuse.

For a start we wont finish 9th, more like 14th or 15th at best.

secondly, as P66 noted it isnt finances but SC.We used 95% of SC this year and with the new rules we can use that extra 5% thereby having 105% of the SC to be used next season.

This means we will 500k more than a 100% SC users of this year to use, and more than a million we used this year.

This means we can target OOC's and FA's with that money and also pick up a top 5 first rounder.

Dont know why this is so hard to understand. Seems crystal clear that this is what the strategy is.

I am but you get the point

Besides, you left off any mention of financial impacts OFF field and the effect this has on development of young talent (do we need to really ask about how long its taken us to scrape enough coins together to field a stand alone VFL team?) and the further impact this could have on developing young talent taken later in a draft who were obviously ranked lower for a reason...

Or is that not impacted by being a 'poor' club?

[plugger66]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

You are being purposely obtuse.

For a start we wont finish 9th, more like 14th or 15th at best.

secondly, as P66 noted it isnt finances but SC.We used 95% of SC this year and with the new rules we can use that extra 5% thereby having 105% of the SC to be used next season.

This means we will 500k more than a 100% SC users of this year to use, and more than a million we used this year.

This means we can target OOC's and FA's with that money and also pick up a top 5 first rounder.

Dont know why this is so hard to understand. Seems crystal clear that this is what the strategy is.

I am but you get the point

Besides, you left off any mention of financial impacts OFF field and the effect this has on development of young talent (do we need to really ask about how long its taken us to scrape enough coins together to field a stand alone VFL team?) and the further impact this could have on developing young talent taken later in a draft who were obviously ranked lower for a reason...

Or is that not impacted by being a 'poor' club?

Hawks and Box Hill.

[Teflon]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.

But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.

Oh I agree there isnt any.
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?



Thats unfair!

Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....

There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.

The best way to get it is to try every single game and then see where you finish. Hoping to lose or not care if you win just means you should fast forward your life until you hope and want to win every single game we play in.

Does the current system reward you for trying very hard weekly to win every game to finish as high as you can in drafting young talent? (this is a y/n type q)

Id have thought a better strategy is to acknowledge where you are right now (forget the fanciful 'we will fight on the beaches and never surrender' hyerbole), maximise an inevitable bottoming out period (which we are in) with a view to using the system to as much advantage as you can get from it by taking the highest available draft selection/choice that you are able to get your hands on for a limited period...

Anyway, genuine question: are priority picks completely finished off the table?

[Teflon]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

You are being purposely obtuse.

For a start we wont finish 9th, more like 14th or 15th at best.

secondly, as P66 noted it isnt finances but SC.We used 95% of SC this year and with the new rules we can use that extra 5% thereby having 105% of the SC to be used next season.

This means we will 500k more than a 100% SC users of this year to use, and more than a million we used this year.

This means we can target OOC's and FA's with that money and also pick up a top 5 first rounder.

Dont know why this is so hard to understand. Seems crystal clear that this is what the strategy is.

I am but you get the point

Besides, you left off any mention of financial impacts OFF field and the effect this has on development of young talent (do we need to really ask about how long its taken us to scrape enough coins together to field a stand alone VFL team?) and the further impact this could have on developing young talent taken later in a draft who were obviously ranked lower for a reason...

Or is that not impacted by being a 'poor' club?

Hawks and Box Hill.

Choice or foisted upon them by financial impacts?
Do you think the Saints are choosing NOT to field a VFL team or is the decision more financial?
You see, a chosen decision/strategy is different to no choice....

[plugger66]

Great post joff you've hit the nail

Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams

I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!

I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.

So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??

I see..

Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.

But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.

Oh I agree there isnt any.
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?



Thats unfair!

Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....

There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.

The best way to get it is to try every single game and then see where you finish. Hoping to lose or not care if you win just means you should fast forward your life until you hope and want to win every single game we play in.

Does the current system reward you for trying very hard weekly to win every game to finish as high as you can in drafting young talent? (this is a y/n type q)

Id have thought a better strategy is to acknowledge where you are right now (forget the fanciful 'we will fight on the beaches and never surrender' hyerbole), maximise an inevitable bottoming out period (which we are in) with a view to using the system to as much advantage as you can get from it by taking the highest available draft selection/choice that you are able to get your hands on for a limited period...

Anyway, genuine question: are priority picks completely finished off the table?

PP are still on the table but it has to be extraordinary circumstances so yes they are basically off the table. And yes the current system slightly helps if you finish lower. I also think winning helps as well but that cant be measured. We aren't going to win 19 games. We may win win 6 so we may finish between 16th and 14th. I would love to finish 14th.

[Teflon]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

I might add too that there is a link here in the strategy and our financial situation and that IMO is we dont have the cash to splash on development others do - it is not guaranteed (nothing in life is) but I would like my chances much better in developing a top 5 draft choice over anything much later, after all there is a reason they have a draft order..

[plugger66]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

[Teflon]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

Is it really fantasy?

If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?

I'll take Buddy thanks.

[plugger66]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

Is it really fantasy?

If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?

I'll take Buddy thanks.

Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.

[Teflon]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

Is it really fantasy?

If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?

I'll take Buddy thanks.

Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.

yes, yes we could but again that would be playing semantics when the REAL point was all about what the AFL draft system is currently designed to do - provide lower finishing sides priority choices. THATS what were talking about in terms of benefit.

But yes we can play 'change the names of the players' but I think youre smart enough to get it.

[SaintPav]

We're top of the bottom rung of teams.

Can anyone realistically see us finishing higher than were we currently are on the ladder?

No risk of us finishing mid table somewhere like 9th which to many is the place of dead roads.

So worse case scenario is pick 5 in the draft.

So the baseline isn't finishing 9th v 18th. It's 14th v 18th and the draft results are reasonably random.

Does anyone really think that the idea of "lets keep losing until we're ready to climb the ladder" really work? I don't think so.

I do agree that we may need to keep manufacturing additional and lower picks but it is getting harder to do this each year. We'll have to give up something for that to happen and I'm not channeling what's his face either.

[plugger66]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

Is it really fantasy?

If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?

I'll take Buddy thanks.

Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.

yes, yes we could but again that would be playing semantics when the REAL point was all about what the AFL draft system is currently designed to do - provide lower finishing sides priority choices. THATS what were talking about in terms of benefit.

But yes we can play 'change the names of the players' but I think youre smart enough to get it.

But it is you that keep using emotive names like Fyffe and Franklin when they aren't the right names to use.

[SaintPav]

How much has the game and recruiting changed since 2004? Richmond had one recruiter back then.

We're a struggling club and we probably have 6 recruiters now. Clubs have pumped more money and resources into recruiting but there are diminishing returns.

How many top GWS and GC top pick are struggling at the moment?

[Teflon]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

Is it really fantasy?

If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?

I'll take Buddy thanks.

Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.

yes, yes we could but again that would be playing semantics when the REAL point was all about what the AFL draft system is currently designed to do - provide lower finishing sides priority choices. THATS what were talking about in terms of benefit.

But yes we can play 'change the names of the players' but I think youre smart enough to get it.

But it is you that keep using emotive names like Fyffe and Franklin when they aren't the right names to use.

Ok lets play.

Remove all names and replace said names with words 'insert higher draft choice'

[Teflon]

How much has the game and recruiting changed since 2004? Richmond had one recruiter back then.

We're a struggling club and we probably have 6 recruiters now. Clubs have pumped more money and resources into recruiting but there are diminishing returns.

How many top GWS and GC top pick are struggling at the moment?

GC /GWS are manufactured environments and as we know so much more in developing talent
That said.....GC have had some injuries (not an excuse for their whole year) but GWS arent going too badly.....

[Teflon]

We're top of the bottom rung of teams.

Can anyone realistically see us finishing higher than were we currently are on the ladder?

No risk of us finishing mid table somewhere like 9th which to many is the place of dead roads.

So worse case scenario is pick 5 in the draft.

So the baseline isn't finishing 9th v 18th. It's 14th v 18th and the draft results are reasonably random.

Does anyone really think that the idea of "lets keep losing until we're ready to climb the ladder" really work? I don't think so.

I do agree that we may need to keep manufacturing additional and lower picks but it is getting harder to do this each year. We'll have to give up something for that to happen and I'm not channeling what's his face either.

So you agree we will continue to need lower picks but would rather we give up something to get them?

I think I'll take my chances with the short term pain now.

Is a rise up the ladder guaranteed for anyone? no.
Can we have pick 1 and stuff it up? yes.
Should we get ourselves the highest choice available while we are losing games? IMHO yes as its the only benefit this current shytty system offers.Take it, choose wisely and cross everything that the draft gods serve up another Judd, Ball, Hodge year.....

[Bunk_Moreland]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

Is it really fantasy?

If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?

I'll take Buddy thanks.

Fiora was a pick 3 and Buddy was a pick 5. Richmond selected Tambling before Buddy

[Teflon]

So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?

You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.

IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...

Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.

Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...

No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.

Is it really fantasy?

If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?

I'll take Buddy thanks.

Fiora was a pick 3 and Buddy was a pick 5. Richmond selected Tambling before Buddy

Hi Bunk

Mighr be worth reading back a few posts.

The point here is about ultimateky what benefit the AFL draft system provides for finishing lower. That benefit is choice.
It doesnt guarantee Buddy or Tambling. It guarantees choice and between first choice and a later choice I'll take first everytime.

Can that be stuffed up at selection? yes.

Not the point though.

Lets put this anotjher way - is 5th pick in the draft better than 1st?, 2nd?....?why?