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The efforts on Saturday were right up there with the most blatantly biased I have ever witnessed.
Whilst we finished with 12 to their 20 (so it was pretty even after the 8 to Nil start which locked the ball in their F50 for the first quarter), it was as much what they did not pay as the differential.
I would suggest that the AFL be inundated with complaints - jamming their phone lines.
You could be excused for having the opinion that "Head Office" (why didn't they kick out all of Demitriou's cronies and start again to introduce integrity upon his resignation?) and/or the umpires are among the big punters who are attempting to manipulate match results and margins for personal gain.
F50 frees to West Coast 6.
F50 frees to St Kilda 0.
Then look at the rest of the stats for the game and ask the obvious question.
Yep the phone lines will be jammed.
Please don't comment on this thread as you said you didn't watch the game. The umpiring was the most pathetic adjudicating I think I have ever seen (and I've seen some terrible umpiring). YES, it didn't cost us the game but it's the same old thing over and over again.
The club MUST make an official complaint against the biased umpiring!
Well that's a weird comment. You have to see the game to suggest no one will ring about the umpiring? Seriously? Wow. And what logical reason would they be biased? I suggest they are just poor umpires but then again someone complained about a reveral against Bruce and it was our runners fault.
The efforts on Saturday were right up there with the most blatantly biased I have ever witnessed.
Whilst we finished with 12 to their 20 (so it was pretty even after the 8 to Nil start which locked the ball in their F50 for the first quarter), it was as much what they did not pay as the differential.
I would suggest that the AFL be inundated with complaints - jamming their phone lines.
You could be excused for having the opinion that "Head Office" (why didn't they kick out all of Demitriou's cronies and start again to introduce integrity upon his resignation?) and/or the umpires are among the big punters who are attempting to manipulate match results and margins for personal gain.
F50 frees to West Coast 6.
F50 frees to St Kilda 0.
Then look at the rest of the stats for the game and ask the obvious question.
Yep the phone lines will be jammed.
Please don't comment on this thread as you said you didn't watch the game. The umpiring was the most pathetic adjudicating I think I have ever seen (and I've seen some terrible umpiring). YES, it didn't cost us the game but it's the same old thing over and over again.
The club MUST make an official complaint against the biased umpiring!
Well that's a weird comment. You have to see the game to suggest no one will ring about the umpiring? Seriously? Wow. And what logical reason would they be biased? I suggest they are just poor umpires but then again someone complained about a reveral against Bruce and it was our runners fault.
But the point is that poor umpires pay stupid (or no) free kicks to both sides while biased umpires pay frees (or no frees) to only one side. Do you get that?
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
Just watched the game for the first time, with an eye on the umpires because of all the commentary. truth be told, the ruck infringements are baffling, but maybe I do not understand the rules. The most egregious errors seemed to have us on the wrong end, but in my view there were not more than a handful. We need to improve with the quick hands in close, stop offloading to a player under pressure and learn the selwwod manouevre.
the invisible and the non existent look very much alike
saint6709 wrote:Anyone know how to find the for and against stat for 2015
All the stats http://afl.allthestats.com/forum/index.php used to be a good site for current and historical stats. Its currently temporarily unavailable. I once did a review of 10 years free kicks paid per club. West Coast Eagles were prominent favourites over that whole time and only 1 year was below the league averages. Several years they had up to 80 more frees than league average. Even their year of wooden spoon they were above league average!!!!
Hawthorn were the worst off averaging 35 less than league average with most years against them.
Saints were the most worst off in the last 2 years of the period chosen (2011-12). West Coast scored something like 15 more frees against the Saints in those 2 years. Dean Cox and Priddis got several goals from frees. Cox in particular could do no wrong even when he gave away blatant frees they weren't called.
I sort of thought he gave away a free against Vickory a year back but he got clocked for his trouble. I almost felt like serve you right for the many times you got away with that but don't condone Vickory's action really. Emotion was ruling my head at the time as he was getting away scott-free until again knocked out. cox was a great ruckman but got lots of help from AFL when they changed ruck rules years ago.
AFL Rule changes cause more problems than benefits in general as they tend to unravel team draft selections and team balance up that helps some but costs others. eg Freo built a big but slow team after Brisbane's GF success only to have many rules change that supported more athltic, faster teams with agile jumping ruckmen. This probably cost Freo nearly 5 years in development along with their poor selection at dafts. Port got back into a GF quicker than expected, it killed of the running jumping rucks and stopped ruck contact at centre bounces. Cox emerged after that last change. Was provent to be easily beaten prior to that with several on this website touting practicing contact when he played the Saints.
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
The efforts on Saturday were right up there with the most blatantly biased I have ever witnessed.
Whilst we finished with 12 to their 20 (so it was pretty even after the 8 to Nil start which locked the ball in their F50 for the first quarter), it was as much what they did not pay as the differential.
I would suggest that the AFL be inundated with complaints - jamming their phone lines.
You could be excused for having the opinion that "Head Office" (why didn't they kick out all of Demitriou's cronies and start again to introduce integrity upon his resignation?) and/or the umpires are among the big punters who are attempting to manipulate match results and margins for personal gain.
F50 frees to West Coast 6.
F50 frees to St Kilda 0.
Then look at the rest of the stats for the game and ask the obvious question.
Yep the phone lines will be jammed.
Please don't comment on this thread as you said you didn't watch the game. The umpiring was the most pathetic adjudicating I think I have ever seen (and I've seen some terrible umpiring). YES, it didn't cost us the game but it's the same old thing over and over again.
The club MUST make an official complaint against the biased umpiring!
Well that's a weird comment. You have to see the game to suggest no one will ring about the umpiring? Seriously? Wow. And what logical reason would they be biased? I suggest they are just poor umpires but then again someone complained about a reveral against Bruce and it was our runners fault.
But the point is that poor umpires pay stupid (or no) free kicks to both sides while biased umpires pay frees (or no frees) to only one side. Do you get that?
No I don't because that is the case then the AFL must have an agenda to make sure we don't get our frees. That doesn't seem logical when they give us nearly 4 million to help us in the AFL.
Watched the game again with the a EFL Div 1 umpire Sunday night just to see if it was bias clouding my impression of the umpiring. Have to say he just laughed at a few calls against us and was floored by the non calls for a lot of our tackling. Number two being involved in a hell of a lot of the s*** calls.
plugger66 wrote:That doesn't seem logical when they give us nearly 4 million to help us in the AFL.
Wrestlers in the WWE that "compete" against the stars and the team that plays against the Harlem Globetrotters would be well looked after too but they never get a look in against the establishment...just sayin'
plugger66 wrote:That doesn't seem logical when they give us nearly 4 million to help us in the AFL.
Wrestlers in the WWE that "compete" against the stars and the team that plays against the Harlem Globetrotters would be well looked after too but they never get a look in against the establishment...just sayin'
plugger66 wrote:That doesn't seem logical when they give us nearly 4 million to help us in the AFL.
Wrestlers in the WWE that "compete" against the stars and the team that plays against the Harlem Globetrotters would be well looked after too but they never get a look in against the establishment...just sayin'
And that is real. Good example.
Thanks! I try to please.
In all seriousness, whilst those sports are 100% manufactured, anyone who thinks the AFL is not partially contrived to suit an agenda is delusional.
Fixtures are compromised at the expense of fairness every season. For a decade Collingwood hardly travelled outside the Melbourne CBD. Some teams have been given massive advantages in salary cap and funds, others in draft concessions.
Whilst I don't think it happens, it's not a monumental leap to entertain the notion that agendas might extend to on field advantages. We have certainly had our fair share of dodgy behaviour go against us. From Sirengate to whispers in the sky, it is easy to see why a Saints supporter might feel there is an agenda at play.
Saturday's umpiring was incompetent at best and biased at worst. People can make up their own mind.
plugger66 wrote:That doesn't seem logical when they give us nearly 4 million to help us in the AFL.
Wrestlers in the WWE that "compete" against the stars and the team that plays against the Harlem Globetrotters would be well looked after too but they never get a look in against the establishment...just sayin'
And that is real. Good example.
Thanks! I try to please.
In all seriousness, whilst those sports are 100% manufactured, anyone who thinks the AFL is not partially contrived to suit an agenda is delusional.
Fixtures are compromised at the expense of fairness every season. For a decade Collingwood hardly travelled outside the Melbourne CBD. Some teams have been given massive advantages in salary cap and funds, others in draft concessions.
Whilst I don't think it happens, it's not a monumental leap to entertain the notion that agendas might extend to on field advantages. We have certainly had our fair share of dodgy behaviour go against us. From Sirengate to whispers in the sky, it is easy to see why a Saints supporter might feel there is an agenda at play.
Saturday's umpiring was incompetent at best and biased at worst. People can make up their own mind.
People on here making up their own mind? yep that will be a fair example. I will love for someone to come up with a logical reason why we would be the side that the AFL said lets be biased against them? Why not North, WB or Melbourne? Why hasn't this been a page one story in the HS. They love a good conspiracy. I reckon some umpires just arent good enough. We may have got one Saturday and whilst we are no good we will continue to get the poorer umpires.
plugger66 wrote:We may have got one Saturday and whilst we are no good we will continue to get the poorer umpires.
If the AFL are sending poorer umpires to our games then that is one of the more stupid things they've done.
The umpires should be assigned to teams as evenly as possible over the course of the season. Any other system is asking for trouble.
plugger66 wrote:We may have got one Saturday and whilst we are no good we will continue to get the poorer umpires.
If the AFL are sending poorer umpires to our games then that is one of the more stupid things they've done.
The umpires should be assigned to teams as evenly as possible over the course of the season. Any other system is asking for trouble.
Well im pretty sure that doesn't happen and I don't think it should. Its unfortunate but the AFL wouldn't want the big games umpire by the poorer umpires. Lets face it we wouldn't give a rats if that was the system and we were a good side.
plugger66 wrote:We may have got one Saturday and whilst we are no good we will continue to get the poorer umpires.
If the AFL are sending poorer umpires to our games then that is one of the more stupid things they've done.
The umpires should be assigned to teams as evenly as possible over the course of the season. Any other system is asking for trouble.
Well im pretty sure that doesn't happen and I don't think it should. Its unfortunate but the AFL wouldn't want the big games umpire by the poorer umpires. Lets face it we wouldn't give a rats if that was the system and we were a good side.
Your guess (and I am sure it is as you wouldn't have any proof) would have implications on potential bias through familiarity and would even extend to Brownlow voting as the same umpires would get the same players too frequently.
The best system the AFL could adopt is to let better the umpires officiate in more than one game on a weekend. That would mean a core group of them would have to be full time.
Failing that, the concept of a team of three umpires working together for a month or so at a time would also help as they'd become familiar with the way that they interpret and position themselves.
plugger66 wrote:We may have got one Saturday and whilst we are no good we will continue to get the poorer umpires.
If the AFL are sending poorer umpires to our games then that is one of the more stupid things they've done.
The umpires should be assigned to teams as evenly as possible over the course of the season. Any other system is asking for trouble.
Well im pretty sure that doesn't happen and I don't think it should. Its unfortunate but the AFL wouldn't want the big games umpire by the poorer umpires. Lets face it we wouldn't give a rats if that was the system and we were a good side.
Your guess (and I am sure it is as you wouldn't have any proof) would have implications on potential bias through familiarity and would even extend to Brownlow voting as the same umpires would get the same players too frequently.
The best system the AFL could adopt is to let better the umpires officiate in more than one game on a weekend. That would mean a core group of them would have to be full time.
Failing that, the concept of a team of three umpires working together for a month or so at a time would also help as they'd become familiar with the way that they interpret and position themselves.
Well the proof is the AFL have said it previously and the fact that we don't get the AFL GF umpires much at all during the year so I will have a go at being right. The brownlow? Why does that matter. Red Herring. And the umpires do work as a team. Well they certainly did 2 years ago. As for 2 games in a weekend well that maybe a bit tough. I think they run something like 15k in a game. I don't see how being FT would help that at all.
plugger66 wrote:We may have got one Saturday and whilst we are no good we will continue to get the poorer umpires.
If the AFL are sending poorer umpires to our games then that is one of the more stupid things they've done.
The umpires should be assigned to teams as evenly as possible over the course of the season. Any other system is asking for trouble.
Well im pretty sure that doesn't happen and I don't think it should. Its unfortunate but the AFL wouldn't want the big games umpire by the poorer umpires. Lets face it we wouldn't give a rats if that was the system and we were a good side.
Your guess (and I am sure it is as you wouldn't have any proof) would have implications on potential bias through familiarity and would even extend to Brownlow voting as the same umpires would get the same players too frequently.
The best system the AFL could adopt is to let better the umpires officiate in more than one game on a weekend. That would mean a core group of them would have to be full time.
Failing that, the concept of a team of three umpires working together for a month or so at a time would also help as they'd become familiar with the way that they interpret and position themselves.[/quote
Well the proof is the AFL have said it previously and the fact that we don't get the AFL GF umpires much at all during the year so I will have a go at being right. The brownlow? Why does that matter. Red Herring. And the umpires do work as a team. Well they certainly did 2 years ago. As for 2 games in a weekend well that maybe a bit tough. I think they run something like 15k in a game. I don't see how being FT would help that at all.
This isn't even debatable. The AFL system is definitely for the better umpires to get the higher profile games, and they like to keep umps in teams. So for now, we get the dud umps. But this doesn't explain the massive disparity in net free kicks for us compared with other teams, because if it was just incompetence, you'd think the errors would go both ways, but we are almost always well down on the free kick count.
That leaves either bias/corruption, or we're doing something wrong in the way we play the game. If it's bias, we must be the unluckiest team of all time to always get the ump that hates us because his mother had a bad experience in St Kilda 30 years ago. If it's corruption, the AFL and the umpires department are the best secret-keepers since the KGB. I suspect it's a combination of us being sloppy, our players haven't learned to do a Selwood head-duck and some umpires dislike Schneider (and Milney in the old days).
Jesus Flaming Christ plugger will you ever just shut the f up about your support of AFL umpires? Or at the very least games in Melbourne that you can't/do not want to attend that a lot us are actually there live?
....just my 2 cents worth
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
saintspremiers wrote:Jesus Flaming Christ plugger will you ever just shut the f up about your support of AFL umpires? Or at the very least games in Melbourne that you can't/do not want to attend that a lot us are actually there live?
....just my 2 cents worth
Well that was worth typing. Can you even tell me what support I have offered them in this thread or as usual are you just making no sense. And don't want to attend? What the hell are you on about? One of your better posts though.
A while back it was explained in the media that the Dogs were having a lot of frees paid against them because they were playing risky, attacking and desperate football. Perhaps we are in the same boat? Unfortunately when you see the game you know this is not really the case.
As for the AFL receiving the blame - I would think it has nothing to do with them that some umpires appear, by the decisions they make, to want our opponents to win.
Plugger, I woulld suggest the Shuey frees did affect us as it did seem to take some of the sting out of our play thereafter.
