Umpires must be reviewed.

[CarlD]

Unfortunately the holding the ball interpretation seems to have moved away from this year's version - the same seemed to apply in the Swans v Hawks game. There was a period of play in that game where the Swans put on a succession of tackles on Hawks players and in most cases the Hawks player just dropped the ball. Luke Darcy applauded the umpiring as letting the game flow. Sorry Luke, you are wrong. I think that the way the holding the ball rule has been applied this year has been much better until this week.

In parts the umpiring in the Saints game was awful and I agree it wouldn't have changed the result but it does make it very frustrating to watch and I can only imagine how the players feel in those circumstances. Throwing the ball was fine as was a 720 degree rotation on one tackle against an Eagles player - not a free in sight.

[plugger66]

Shocked by who started this thread.

[Sobraz]

Shocked by who started this thread.

Great input into a thread clearly many agree with.

Don't like to blame umpires myself, but it was a deplorable display.

The high tackle free kick in the 3rd from memory where if the Saints player went any lower he'd be done for tripping was the most wrong decision of the year. That was the issue, not giving 50/50's WC way, just getting them plain wrong. Making it up as they go along.

Absolutely horrible.

[plugger66]

Shocked by who started this thread.

Great input into a thread clearly many agree with.

Don't like to blame umpires myself, but it was a deplorable display.

The high tackle free kick in the 3rd from memory where if the Saints player went any lower he'd be done for tripping was the most wrong decision of the year. That was the issue, not giving 50/50's WC way, just getting them plain wrong. Making it up as they go along.

Absolutely horrible.

Well its pretty hard to imput when I haven't seen a kick. I could lie I suppose and say they were good or bad. Im still shocked by who started the thread. I do know we clearly didn't lose because the umpires.

[Enrico_Misso]

West Coast are the "best" club in the competition for milking free kicks.
This goes back more than a decade.
Almost every year they are in top three clubs for favourable free kicks differential, and over the decade are miles in front.
(There was a thread on this a couple of years ago and WCE had a cumulative free kick differential of several hundred - miles ahead of second place, whilst we were well in the negative).
Check their free kick tallies - most weeks they get at least 5 more, today it was a lazy 8.

Who could forget our game against them a couple of years ago at Docklands when the umpires got them up with a string a outright dodgy free kicks in the last quarter!!!

http://m.afl.com.au/stats?#sclub

This shows that we are the worst side for frees against. We have given away almost 20 more frees than the next team. Eagles give away the least. Almost 80 frees difference

Exactly

- West Coast have the second most favourable differential with 39 more frees.
- Richmond have the most with 43
- No-one else has more than 20.

As mentioned
- StK has the worst differential with minus 36
- Geel have minus 34
- Syd have minus 28
- no-one else has more than 20.

But you will find West Coast are top three in this table in almost every year over the last decade.
We on the other hand are always well on the negative side of the ledger.

So when we play the Eagles it is like they have an extra "moderate" player on the field.

[falka]

So do we play differently? What is it?

Surely it aint part of a grand conspiracy?

I reckon one reason is that our players aren't that smart and give many clumsy frees also.
Billings (a smart and crafty player) doesn't give frees away.
Maybe we need more smart footballers.

[Darth Vader]

West Coast are the "best" club in the competition for milking free kicks.
This goes back more than a decade.
Almost every year they are in top three clubs for favourable free kicks differential, and over the decade are miles in front.
(There was a thread on this a couple of years ago and WCE had a cumulative free kick differential of several hundred - miles ahead of second place, whilst we were well in the negative).
Check their free kick tallies - most weeks they get at least 5 more, today it was a lazy 8.

Who could forget our game against them a couple of years ago at Docklands when the umpires got them up with a string a outright dodgy free kicks in the last quarter!!!

http://m.afl.com.au/stats?#sclub

This shows that we are the worst side for frees against. We have given away almost 20 more frees than the next team. Eagles give away the least. Almost 80 frees difference

Exactly

- West Coast have the second most favourable differential with 39 more frees.

- Richmond have the most with 43
- No-one else has more than 20.

As mentioned
- StK has the worst differential with minus 36
- Geel have minus 34
- Syd have minus 28
- no-one else has more than 20.

But you will find West Coast are top three in this table in almost every year over the last decade.
We on the other hand are always well on the negative side of the ledger.

So when we play the Eagles it is like they have an extra "moderate" player on the field.

Anyone who says the umpires are cheating or corrupt is obviously an idiot. Incompetent maybe, but forget the conspiracy theories. But these stats definitely show that there's something wrong with how we play the game, and this has been the case for a few years now. 7 frees kicks to zero in the first fifteen minutes confirms this. And it's not just because we were getting beaten and second to the ball etc, it happens when we're winning also. It can't be a fluke, the numbers are too compelling to ignore.

If the club hasn't already done so, they need to spend some time with the umpiring department, analyse the decisions for and against, and work out what we're doing wrong, because it's hurting us.

[ROLS-LEE]

So do we play differently? What is it?

Surely it aint part of a grand conspiracy?

I reckon one reason is that our players aren't that smart and give many clumsy frees also.
Billings (a smart and crafty player) doesn't give frees away.
Maybe we need more smart footballers.

Out list including coaches has changed over the years. Surely they all can't be dumb.

[kosifantutti]

Shocked by who started this thread.

Great input into a thread clearly many agree with.

Don't like to blame umpires myself, but it was a deplorable display.

The high tackle free kick in the 3rd from memory where if the Saints player went any lower he'd be done for tripping was the most wrong decision of the year. That was the issue, not giving 50/50's WC way, just getting them plain wrong. Making it up as they go along.

Absolutely horrible.

Well its pretty hard to imput when I haven't seen a kick. I could lie I suppose and say they were good or bad. Im still shocked by who started the thread. I do know we clearly didn't lose because the umpires.

You haven't seen the game, so you're just baiting?

[SainterK]

It wasn't the umpiring Imo

it was the umpire

#2

very odd performance

[plugger66]

Shocked by who started this thread.

Great input into a thread clearly many agree with.

Don't like to blame umpires myself, but it was a deplorable display.

The high tackle free kick in the 3rd from memory where if the Saints player went any lower he'd be done for tripping was the most wrong decision of the year. That was the issue, not giving 50/50's WC way, just getting them plain wrong. Making it up as they go along.

Absolutely horrible.

Well its pretty hard to imput when I haven't seen a kick. I could lie I suppose and say they were good or bad. Im still shocked by who started the thread. I do know we clearly didn't lose because the umpires.

You haven't seen the game, so you're just baiting?

If you say so. Obviously deserves a warning. Worse than saying a person should be on the sex offenders list

[Jacks Back]

West Coast are the "best" club in the competition for milking free kicks.
This goes back more than a decade.
Almost every year they are in top three clubs for favourable free kicks differential, and over the decade are miles in front.
(There was a thread on this a couple of years ago and WCE had a cumulative free kick differential of several hundred - miles ahead of second place, whilst we were well in the negative).
Check their free kick tallies - most weeks they get at least 5 more, today it was a lazy 8.

Who could forget our game against them a couple of years ago at Docklands when the umpires got them up with a string a outright dodgy free kicks in the last quarter!!!

http://m.afl.com.au/stats?#sclub

This shows that we are the worst side for frees against. We have given away almost 20 more frees than the next team. Eagles give away the least. Almost 80 frees difference

Exactly

- West Coast have the second most favourable differential with 39 more frees.

- Richmond have the most with 43
- No-one else has more than 20.

As mentioned
- StK has the worst differential with minus 36
- Geel have minus 34
- Syd have minus 28
- no-one else has more than 20.

But you will find West Coast are top three in this table in almost every year over the last decade.
We on the other hand are always well on the negative side of the ledger.

So when we play the Eagles it is like they have an extra "moderate" player on the field.

Anyone who says the umpires are cheating or corrupt is obviously an idiot. Incompetent maybe, but forget the conspiracy theories. But these stats definitely show that there's something wrong with how we play the game, and this has been the case for a few years now. 7 frees kicks to zero in the first fifteen minutes confirms this. And it's not just because we were getting beaten and second to the ball etc, it happens when we're winning also. It can't be a fluke, the numbers are too compelling to ignore.

If the club hasn't already done so, they need to spend some time with the umpiring department, analyse the decisions for and against, and work out what we're doing wrong, because it's hurting us.

But they must be corrupt or cheating as anyone who watched the game could plainly see that they got free kicks that we didn't get all day.

[plugger66]

West Coast are the "best" club in the competition for milking free kicks.
This goes back more than a decade.
Almost every year they are in top three clubs for favourable free kicks differential, and over the decade are miles in front.
(There was a thread on this a couple of years ago and WCE had a cumulative free kick differential of several hundred - miles ahead of second place, whilst we were well in the negative).
Check their free kick tallies - most weeks they get at least 5 more, today it was a lazy 8.

Who could forget our game against them a couple of years ago at Docklands when the umpires got them up with a string a outright dodgy free kicks in the last quarter!!!

http://m.afl.com.au/stats?#sclub

This shows that we are the worst side for frees against. We have given away almost 20 more frees than the next team. Eagles give away the least. Almost 80 frees difference

Exactly

- West Coast have the second most favourable differential with 39 more frees.

- Richmond have the most with 43
- No-one else has more than 20.

As mentioned
- StK has the worst differential with minus 36
- Geel have minus 34
- Syd have minus 28
- no-one else has more than 20.

But you will find West Coast are top three in this table in almost every year over the last decade.
We on the other hand are always well on the negative side of the ledger.

So when we play the Eagles it is like they have an extra "moderate" player on the field.

Anyone who says the umpires are cheating or corrupt is obviously an idiot. Incompetent maybe, but forget the conspiracy theories. But these stats definitely show that there's something wrong with how we play the game, and this has been the case for a few years now. 7 frees kicks to zero in the first fifteen minutes confirms this. And it's not just because we were getting beaten and second to the ball etc, it happens when we're winning also. It can't be a fluke, the numbers are too compelling to ignore.

If the club hasn't already done so, they need to spend some time with the umpiring department, analyse the decisions for and against, and work out what we're doing wrong, because it's hurting us.

But they must be corrupt or cheating as anyone who watched the game could plainly see that they got free kicks that we didn't get all day.

Because that makes sense.

[Linton Lodger]

Not suggesting it influenced the result, but that was a disgracefully incompetent display of umpiring. It appeared that at times they just guessed and they were overzealous on petty nonsense.

Even though we ended up heart broken after the 2 grand finals in 2010. Those games were well umpired and not over officiated. I remember thinking why aren't all games umpired like that?

If its a difference in ability between umpires that get the Grand Final and crap umpires, then move along those that aren't up to scratch. Players get moved on if they don't perform, do umpires?

Then there's the 'rule of the week' nonsense, changing interpretations of the Rules on a week by week basis. Imagine if our legal system ran like that!

Then there's the 'No one shall criticise umpires' Commandment. As if that translates to better accountability??? Look at what Malthouse is copping at the moment, look at the sort of microscope Jack Watts has had on him at times. The umpires suffer no such scrutiny. In fact Ray Chamberlain, a complete incompetent and one of the worst, is somewhat of a bizarre cult figure!

The AFL is swimming in money and must make them full time professionals on good coin, a prerequisite should be that they have played senior footy at a minimum level. Then raise the bar on their expected performance, including allowing criticism from clubs, Coaches and players. If they don't perform consistently then drop them or sack them.

And the final no brainer, get the Rules right and don't reinterpret them on a weekly basis.

[plugger66]

Not suggesting it influenced the result, but that was a disgracefully incompetent display of umpiring. It appeared that at times they just guessed and they were overzealous on petty nonsense.

Even though we ended up heart broken after the 2 grand finals in 2010. Those games were well umpired and not over officiated. I remember thinking why aren't all games umpired like that?

If its a difference in ability between umpires that get the Grand Final and crap umpires, then move along those that aren't up to scratch. Players get moved on if they don't perform, do umpires?

Then there's the 'rule of the week' nonsense, changing interpretations of the Rules on a week by week basis. Imagine if our legal system ran like that!

Then there's the 'No one shall criticise umpires' Commandment. As if that translates to better accountability??? Look at what Malthouse is copping at the moment, look at the sort of microscope Jack Watts has had on him at times. The umpires suffer no such scrutiny. In fact Ray Chamberlain, a complete incompetent and one of the worst, is somewhat of a bizarre cult figure!

The AFL is swimming in money and must make them full time professionals on good coin, a prerequisite should be that they have played senior footy at a minimum level. Then raise the bar on their expected performance, including allowing criticism from clubs, Coaches and players. If they don't perform consistently then drop them or sack them.

And the final no brainer, get the Rules right and don't reinterpret them on a weekly basis.

If it was all that simple then it would happen. Umpires do get moved on every year. At lest the same percentage as players. As you say there is huge gap between good and bad and that is the issue. Obviously the ones below that aren't even as good as the bad ones we see. And I don't see how making an umpire full time will help them umpire better. We may actually lose some good ones who don't want to give up their day job.

[kosifantutti]

Shocked by who started this thread.

Great input into a thread clearly many agree with.

Don't like to blame umpires myself, but it was a deplorable display.

The high tackle free kick in the 3rd from memory where if the Saints player went any lower he'd be done for tripping was the most wrong decision of the year. That was the issue, not giving 50/50's WC way, just getting them plain wrong. Making it up as they go along.

Absolutely horrible.

Well its pretty hard to imput when I haven't seen a kick. I could lie I suppose and say they were good or bad. Im still shocked by who started the thread. I do know we clearly didn't lose because the umpires.

You haven't seen the game, so you're just baiting?

If you say so. Obviously deserves a warning. Worse than saying a person should be on the sex offenders list

Because that makes sense.

[ROLS-LEE]

The thing I don't understand is that in close the play was allowed to continue, even if there were 50/50 frees in our favour but as soon as they were infringed it was given to them straight away. Even the frees paid to us the umps took an extended time to pay it.

[Enrico_Misso]

The thing I don't understand is that in close the play was allowed to continue, even if there were 50/50 frees in our favour but as soon as they were infringed it was given to them straight away. Even the frees paid to us the umps took an extended time to pay it.

Yes there was one comical moment when the ball had been pinned for several seconds and players from both sides had effectively stopped and looked at the umpire for a whistle.
But he called play on.
Several seconds later they all stopped again and he was shamed into finally blowing his whistle!

[StPeter]

Every time we have umpire number 2 it is the same.

He used to wear number 25. I still remember the day at the MCG he awarded 9 inside 50 frees to Richmond against us which they scored around 8 goals from. We got zero frees inside 50.

Yesterday WCE had around 8 or 9 frees within about 35 metres of goal. We had none in the forward 50 again.

We have had him several times in recent years and the free kick total, and more importantly the frees inside 50 have always been very much out of balance against us.

He was also the umpire yesterday who didn't award the 50 metre penalty to Webster when he was concussed AFTER marking the ball. He was also the umpire who made the puzzling decision against Bruce
when everyone else at the ground thought it was the other way. He was the umpire who awarded the controversial frees to Nick Nac........and I could go on.

He is blatantly biased against St Kilda and should never get another Saint's game.

[To the top]

Agree re the umpiring.

The efforts on Saturday were right up there with the most blatantly biased I have ever witnessed.

Whilst we finished with 12 to their 20 (so it was pretty even after the 8 to Nil start which locked the ball in their F50 for the first quarter), it was as much what they did not pay as the differential.

I would suggest that the AFL be inundated with complaints - jamming their phone lines.

You could be excused for having the opinion that "Head Office" (why didn't they kick out all of Demitriou's cronies and start again to introduce integrity upon his resignation?) and/or the umpires are among the big punters who are attempting to manipulate match results and margins for personal gain.

F50 frees to West Coast 6.

F50 frees to St Kilda 0.

Then look at the rest of the stats for the game and ask the obvious question.

[saynta]

That was pretty bad.
20 frees to 12 and that was only after the maggots tried to even upin the last.
They also got 6 frees in the forward 50 to our nil

[Bernard Shakey]

Disgusting and embarassing.

My girlfriend grew up in a 3rd world country with 3rd world corruption. She can only put what happens to us as to what happens in South East Asia .

Disgusting and embarassing for a supposed 'professional' comp... They've all got to to go

Obviously she'd know a lot about our game, listening to your great knowledge!

[ROLS-LEE]

That was pretty bad.
20 frees to 12 and that was only after the maggots tried to even upin the last.
They also got 6 frees in the forward 50 to our nil

Agree, awarding free kicks to us even though we took the mark.

[plugger66]

Agree re the umpiring.

The efforts on Saturday were right up there with the most blatantly biased I have ever witnessed.

Whilst we finished with 12 to their 20 (so it was pretty even after the 8 to Nil start which locked the ball in their F50 for the first quarter), it was as much what they did not pay as the differential.

I would suggest that the AFL be inundated with complaints - jamming their phone lines.

You could be excused for having the opinion that "Head Office" (why didn't they kick out all of Demitriou's cronies and start again to introduce integrity upon his resignation?) and/or the umpires are among the big punters who are attempting to manipulate match results and margins for personal gain.

F50 frees to West Coast 6.

F50 frees to St Kilda 0.

Then look at the rest of the stats for the game and ask the obvious question.

Yep the phone lines will be jammed.

[Jacks Back]

Agree re the umpiring.

The efforts on Saturday were right up there with the most blatantly biased I have ever witnessed.

Whilst we finished with 12 to their 20 (so it was pretty even after the 8 to Nil start which locked the ball in their F50 for the first quarter), it was as much what they did not pay as the differential.

I would suggest that the AFL be inundated with complaints - jamming their phone lines.

You could be excused for having the opinion that "Head Office" (why didn't they kick out all of Demitriou's cronies and start again to introduce integrity upon his resignation?) and/or the umpires are among the big punters who are attempting to manipulate match results and margins for personal gain.

F50 frees to West Coast 6.

F50 frees to St Kilda 0.

Then look at the rest of the stats for the game and ask the obvious question.

Yep the phone lines will be jammed.

Please don't comment on this thread as you said you didn't watch the game. The umpiring was the most pathetic adjudicating I think I have ever seen (and I've seen some terrible umpiring). YES, it didn't cost us the game but it's the same old thing over and over again.

The club MUST make an official complaint against the biased umpiring!