poor recruiting?

[samuraisaint]

Maybe not recruiting, but playing and development is an issue, I think. I was surprised last Friday night as to how many of Collingwood's young brigade got hold of us, guys like Grundy.
And today; Carlton had two first gamers! 2! And by the end of the game we were absolutely getting smashed by a team with a heap of outs who had never played in Wellington before.
Wright needs to spend the entire year at Sandy. Dunstan needs to go back for a block of games too. His decision making is extremely questionable at the moment. And Hickey needs to come in for Longer. Now!

[Old Mate]

Hickey in for Longer wtf??? Longer was our best player today. 18 touches and 51 hit outs.

[dragit]

This place is embarrassing, I can't read any more of this mental asylum.

[Old Mate]

This place is embarrassing, I can't read any more of this mental asylum.

No more Internet for me today

[saynta]

I'm sitting in the Qantas lounge at Nirita reading about the game. All seems doom and gloom.

But please somebody,tell me the score.

[saint-stu]

This place is embarrassing, I can't read any more of this mental asylum.

Some totally ridiculous statements about our players in this thread. Really sad to read.

But it's predictable. Every time some idiot commentator (<cough>Dwayne Russell<cough>) makes a stupid statement about our team or one of our players, someone comes on hear and regurgitates it. As if they thought of it themselves.

The commentary today was really painful. Unbelievably negative about the saints who are clearly rebuilding.

Did anyone hear Schneider or Richo speak after the game? They were pretty happy with the way the young guys went today. Of course they're a long way off, but it's an improvement.

[remboy]

Some people need to get a grip. Our club is a work in progress. We're trying to build it from the ground up. The 22 that played today aren't expected to win our next flag. Every year we're bringing in kids. Guess what? Kids take time. I still believe that Billings and Dunstan are going to be rippers too.

[saintbob]

Some people need to get a grip. Our club is a work in progress. We're trying to build it from the ground up. The 22 that played today aren't expected to win our next flag. Every year we're bringing in kids. Guess what? Kids take time. I still believe that Billings and Dunstan are going to be rippers too.

100% correct

[cwrcyn]

And we'll have a chance to get some more talent in at the end of the year.

[Trev from the Bush]

Good to see so many kneejerk comments.

Let's sack all the players and burn our memberships.

[saintsRrising]

Jesus Christ about Billings. He tore it up last year as forward. Now he's starting to the learn the midfield and you expect him to what - be able to poll 3 votes with a limited body size and shape. He showed more creativity out there than any other mid in our side. And that's with legs that probably feel like jelly when he's not used to running those sort of distances. He made some bad errors and missed targets but he's actually able to spot the targets and then have the courage to go for it instead of the bobbly to-a-pack kicks others do. As he gets stronger legs and tank he'll be more consistent and accurate and will become extremely damaging. At the moment you can see he's a bit too tentative, used to the more delicate touch needed on a forward line.

I said you can't just flick a switch on Billings and make him a mid-fielder - its a whole other world to learn. The pressure comes from 360 degrees and takes getting used to to find your timing and rhythm. Can people show a little patience please. I'm extremely glad we have him. His goal showed the sort of class that is invaluable. He's still getting pushed off the ball easily but you can actually see him really get in there hunting the footy in there so I think he does have that instinct that. As he keeps building up his body he will become pretty damn effective.

I'm more than happy about Dunstan's development. I knew people would pot him and Billings as second year players which is ridiculous - he's learning what it takes to be a true AFL player. You can see him almost ready to dominate in packs but then can't quite get free or spills it or makes a bad handball. But another couple of seasons, bigger body, bigger tank and more composure and understanding of his teammates, and he'll take that step and become a really great mid.

If you can see already what Paddy Mac delivers then I can't help you. He is already causing headaches for defenders. I think he'll stay in the team. He's doing more for me than Bruce or Membrey and is the absoulute future of this club.

Sinclair has showed a bit but his opponent destroyed us in the second and third qtr. A lot of that could be not having the tank so as that develops hopefully he'll show more and more.

We've still got Goddard, Acres, Templeton, McKenzie to bring in so our recruiting HAS been good. I don't understand this sudden panic about our picks. Its the complete lack of good 100 game players who can use the footy that is killing us, not the young players. Our young players look the most dangerous which says everything.

Agreed.

The club is being rebuilt, and it is a long-term rebuild.

By and large the picks look to be ok. Yes in hindsight the Bont looks to be a better player than Billings (though Billings will still be good) but bye and large our recruiting has been good.

ie This year Lonie and Sinclair both look already to be "steals"....and Bruce Almaighty is coming along nicely.

Over the ground we have picked up players for most of the positions, but yes to complete the jigsaw we desperately need two genuine elite mids. Hopefully this will be focus of our early picks, and any FA pick-ups, the next two years.

[Saint wagga]

Jesus Christ about Billings. He tore it up last year as forward. Now he's starting to the learn the midfield and you expect him to what - be able to poll 3 votes with a limited body size and shape. He showed more creativity out there than any other mid in our side. And that's with legs that probably feel like jelly when he's not used to running those sort of distances. He made some bad errors and missed targets but he's actually able to spot the targets and then have the courage to go for it instead of the bobbly to-a-pack kicks others do. As he gets stronger legs and tank he'll be more consistent and accurate and will become extremely damaging. At the moment you can see he's a bit too tentative, used to the more delicate touch needed on a forward line.

I said you can't just flick a switch on Billings and make him a mid-fielder - its a whole other world to learn. The pressure comes from 360 degrees and takes getting used to to find your timing and rhythm. Can people show a little patience please. I'm extremely glad we have him. His goal showed the sort of class that is invaluable. He's still getting pushed off the ball easily but you can actually see him really get in there hunting the footy in there so I think he does have that instinct that. As he keeps building up his body he will become pretty damn effective.

I'm more than happy about Dunstan's development. I knew people would pot him and Billings as second year players which is ridiculous - he's learning what it takes to be a true AFL player. You can see him almost ready to dominate in packs but then can't quite get free or spills it or makes a bad handball. But another couple of seasons, bigger body, bigger tank and more composure and understanding of his teammates, and he'll take that step and become a really great mid.

If you can see already what Paddy Mac delivers then I can't help you. He is already causing headaches for defenders. I think he'll stay in the team. He's doing more for me than Bruce or Membrey and is the absoulute future of this club.

Sinclair has showed a bit but his opponent destroyed us in the second and third qtr. A lot of that could be not having the tank so as that develops hopefully he'll show more and more.

We've still got Goddard, Acres, Templeton, McKenzie to bring in so our recruiting HAS been good. I don't understand this sudden panic about our picks. Its the complete lack of good 100 game players who can use the footy that is killing us, not the young players. Our young players look the most dangerous which says everything.

Agreed.

The club is being rebuilt, and it is a long-term rebuild.

By and large the picks look to be ok. Yes in hindsight the Bont looks to be a better player than Billings (though Billings will still be good) but bye and large our recruiting has been good.

ie This year Lonie and Sinclair both look already to be "steals"....and Bruce Almaighty is coming along nicely.

Over the ground we have picked up players for most of the positions, but yes to complete the jigsaw we desperately need two genuine elite mids. Hopefully this will be focus of our early picks, and any FA pick-ups, the next two years.

Here's two elite mids we could really use...Brendan Goddard and NDS...tell me which player we brought into the club directly as a result of offloading these two Saints champions that is vital to our list regeneration. I agree we have brought in plenty of young talent into the club, bruce, Lonie, billings, Sinclair, McCartin...but we also seem to have brought in plenty of probable GOP's too...

[plugger66]

This place is embarrassing, I can't read any more of this mental asylum.

Couldn't have said it better. What another great thread.

[gringo]

This place is embarrassing, I can't read any more of this mental asylum.

Come on Draggers, it's a rich tapestry of crazy ideas. I'm still thinking Riewoldt was the worst player, he didn't register a stat. Send him to Sandy for the year.

[whiskers3614]

What made them think that small forwards who can't play midfield are the way to go?
Why do we keep drafting players with totally obvious deficiencies in key areas such as speed (Ross), two sidedness (Saad) or disposal efficiency(take your pick).Surely with all the TAC and draft combines and all the recruiters and assistant coaches all teams should be getting it a lot better!

[plugger66]

What made them think that small forwards who can't play midfield are the way to go?
Why do we keep drafting players with totally obvious deficiencies in key areas such as speed (Ross), two sidedness (Saad) or disposal efficiency(take your pick).Surely with all the TAC and draft combines and all the recruiters and assistant coaches all teams should be getting it a lot better!

They are 4 years ago though. We have now got some very good kicks and small forwards that will end up as mids like Billings, Lonie and Sinclair.

[gringo]

What made them think that small forwards who can't play midfield are the way to go?
Why do we keep drafting players with totally obvious deficiencies in key areas such as speed (Ross), two sidedness (Saad) or disposal efficiency(take your pick).Surely with all the TAC and draft combines and all the recruiters and assistant coaches all teams should be getting it a lot better!

They are 4 years ago though. We have now got some very good kicks and small forwards that will end up as mids like Billings, Lonie and Sinclair.

As you have said before we need mids, mids and mids. Outside pace and clean skills. We need to have guys at least as good as Steven and Armo who can stretch the opposition. ATM can get a guy like Steven tagged out of the game and we are in trouble. Sloane, Danger and Dylan Shiel would be nice.

[saintspremiers]

If anyone wants to mail me their memberships I'm happy to microwave them for no additional cost.

Offer ends end of April
























2016

[Richter]

I don't mind that we chose McCartin, we really needed a quality tall forward and I believe that's what he will become, however we really needed a strong bonafide midfielder like Angus Brayshaw. He's strongly build kid that's only gonna get stronger and he loves the contested stuff. I jus hope we somehow get a priority pick and get two top 5 midfielders in this years draft, one silky outside mid and a contested mid like Brayshaw.

Disagree, old mate. I think that the fact that we are being highly competitive early in games shows that we have the contested ballwinning ability, but not the endurance, which will come with getting older.

Yesterday, we were also without Weller (probably number 2 inside mid currently), Ross (year 4 inside mid) and Joey (number 1 clearance player of the last decade).

What I believe is really killing us is the lack of outside polish, which led to Carlton beating us on the outside and on the turnover. We have only one young player on the list who is a potential elite ball user, in Billings, and that is nowhere near enough IMO

[saintsRrising]

Here's two elite mids we could really use...Brendan Goddard and NDS...tell me which player we brought into the club directly as a result of offloading these two Saints champions that is vital to our list regeneration. I agree we have brought in plenty of young talent into the club, bruce, Lonie, billings, Sinclair, McCartin...but we also seem to have brought in plenty of probable GOP's too...

1/ Letting them go is not about now, it is about 2017 and beyond
2/ By 2017 Dal will probably be finished, and BJ almost finished

And letting them go was not just for the pick (and then multi-player deals) we gained directly but as I understand it as part of the plan, it is intended to free up salary cap so that we can chase quality YOUNG Free Agents from the end of this year.

BJ will be 30 next year and Dal 32. Both if at the club would have been on big $$$ and would have restricted what $$$ we therefore had to chase Free Agents.

The Club made the strategic decison to sacrifice wins , and aldder position now for a better chance at makinga GF later. Whether this was the right call or not we will have to wait and see. But that was/ is the plan.

If the Club does not actually land a couple of very good Free Agents, then we will be able to say that letting BJ and Dal go was for naught.



Also given the form of Longer and Bruce Almighty this season the Dal compensation is now looking pretty good for us.

LOST
Dal, picks 41 and 77
(Note: looking at that draft now, pick 30 and above is looking very thin, and so trading awy 41 was a good move)

GAINED

Longer (from the 25 for Dal), Bruce Almighty and Delaney.

So losing Dal could well deliver a No 1 ruck, CHF and FB!!! If we do gain a gun FA mid too..............then that will be wet-dream material.


PS: I am not sure longterm we can sustain both Hickey and Longer. But if not one will possibly go fora good trade.

[Old Mate]

I don't mind that we chose McCartin, we really needed a quality tall forward and I believe that's what he will become, however we really needed a strong bonafide midfielder like Angus Brayshaw. He's strongly build kid that's only gonna get stronger and he loves the contested stuff. I jus hope we somehow get a priority pick and get two top 5 midfielders in this years draft, one silky outside mid and a contested mid like Brayshaw.

Disagree, old mate. I think that the fact that we are being highly competitive early in games shows that we have the contested ballwinning ability, but not the endurance, which will come with getting older.

Yesterday, we were also without Weller (probably number 2 inside mid currently), Ross (year 4 inside mid) and Joey (number 1 clearance player of the last decade).

What I believe is really killing us is the lack of outside polish, which led to Carlton beating us on the outside and on the turnover. We have only one young player on the list who is a potential elite ball user, in Billings, and that is nowhere near enough IMO

Even when we were up on the scoreboard yesterday the Blues were stripping the ball away from the middle far too easily. Cripps, a 19 yo absolutely killed us.

I certainly acknowledge we missed Weller, he's very good on the defensive spread and his tackling is obviously a feature. But I'm not sure outside of Armitage we have any clearance kings. Dunstan I'm not sold on. While he's a smart player he's not the ball winner some think. He actually played a lot of his junior footy as a medium half forward being a very mature kid.

Acres is the player I see bring a clearance specialist and I really want to see him given games in the centre because he's not s flanker far from it. His best work is done in the middle. He's got extremely clean hands, awareness and a big body. Seb Ross I'm not sold on but he does tick a few boxes.

Outside skill is definitely a need. Brayshaw is a very good outside player, duel sided and also wins the hard ball and tackles extremely hard. I think many underrated Brayshaw last year, including myself. I've seen enough to believe he will be the best mid from the draft. Better than Heeney as well.

[Saint wagga]

Here's two elite mids we could really use...Brendan Goddard and NDS...tell me which player we brought into the club directly as a result of offloading these two Saints champions that is vital to our list regeneration. I agree we have brought in plenty of young talent into the club, bruce, Lonie, billings, Sinclair, McCartin...but we also seem to have brought in plenty of probable GOP's too...

1/ Letting them go is not about now, it is about 2017 and beyond
2/ By 2017 Dal will probably be finished, and BJ almost finished

And letting them go was not just for the pick (and then multi-player deals) we gained directly but as I understand it as part of the plan, it is intended to free up salary cap so that we can chase quality YOUNG Free Agents from the end of this year.

BJ will be 30 next year and Dal 32. Both if at the club would have been on big $$$ and would have restricted what $$$ we therefore had to chase Free Agents.

The Club made the strategic decison to sacrifice wins , and aldder position now for a better chance at makinga GF later. Whether this was the right call or not we will have to wait and see. But that was/ is the plan.

If the Club does not actually land a couple of very good Free Agents, then we will be able to say that letting BJ and Dal go was for naught.



Also given the form of Longer and Bruce Almighty this season the Dal compensation is now looking pretty good for us.

LOST
Dal, picks 41 and 77
(Note: looking at that draft now, pick 30 and above is looking very thin, and so trading awy 41 was a good move)

GAINED

Longer (from the 25 for Dal), Bruce Almighty and Delaney.

So losing Dal could well deliver a No 1 ruck, CHF and FB!!! If we do gain a gun FA mid too..............then that will be wet-dream material.


PS: I am not sure longterm we can sustain both Hickey and Longer. But if not one will possibly go fora good trade.

Good reply, you made a really well constructed response to my slightly frustrated rant re: losing two of my favs after yesterdays loss!! With regards to the original thread, im just not sold on us recruiting 'that' well, especially with our higher picks...i agree we have nabbed some good looking young players for not much, ie Eli and Bruce and Lonie and SInclair, but we seem to have also picked up a lot of possible, and i repeat possible GOP's; Wright, Webster, Ross, White, Saunders, Markworth (unlucky injuries)...we dont seemed to have absolutely smoked our recruiting...only time will tell and i hope to be proven wrong so very much It hurts to think that we offloaded our heart and soul players for not much 'yet'...still raw.
if they wanted to stay, i dont think they would have affected our ladder position and potential to bring in high end talent...like roo and fisher, they wont help us make the eight...but i hate to see 25-28yo GOP's in our side...think we could have kept our absolute gems if they were willing to stay for reasonable money, and had them surround our kids. I know who id rather have surrounding my young guns, and it aint Delaney, its chips.

[The Disch]

We have a history (recent & past) of drafting flankers and believing they will become midfielders!

Apart from Dunstan in recent times for some reason we seem to over look natural midfielders. We now have too many small fowards who cant rotate thru the mids, we still have too many back flankers and too many players who are 'straight line' players who are poor in traffic and very one sided.

In short we have by far the worst and most unbalanced list in the comp. Lets hope AR and his team can improve things because I dont know how many years the club and supporters will cope with this?

We could have taken Petracca, but we held our nerve and went for the strong key forward that we need to replace Roo in the long term.
Next year I think we will draft the best young midfielder or trade for one like Treloar.

I don't understand this obsession of replacing Roo.
We need mid fielders above anything else { read Petracca }
to me the CHF position is in the dark ages like FF.
Gone are the days of the " go to man " in the forward line.

[The Disch]

We have a history (recent & past) of drafting flankers and believing they will become midfielders!

Apart from Dunstan in recent times for some reason we seem to over look natural midfielders. We now have too many small fowards who cant rotate thru the mids, we still have too many back flankers and too many players who are 'straight line' players who are poor in traffic and very one sided.

In short we have by far the worst and most unbalanced list in the comp. Lets hope AR and his team can improve things because I dont know how many years the club and supporters will cope with this?

We could have taken Petracca, but we held our nerve and went for the strong key forward that we need to replace Roo in the long term.
Next year I think we will draft the best young midfielder or trade for one like Treloar.

I don't understand this obsession of replacing Roo.
We need mid fielders above anything else { read Petracca }
to me the CHF position is in the dark ages like FF.
Gone are the days of the " go to man " in the forward line.

[Con Gorozidis]

We have a history (recent & past) of drafting flankers and believing they will become midfielders!

Apart from Dunstan in recent times for some reason we seem to over look natural midfielders. We now have too many small fowards who cant rotate thru the mids, we still have too many back flankers and too many players who are 'straight line' players who are poor in traffic and very one sided.

In short we have by far the worst and most unbalanced list in the comp. Lets hope AR and his team can improve things because I dont know how many years the club and supporters will cope with this?

We could have taken Petracca, but we held our nerve and went for the strong key forward that we need to replace Roo in the long term.
Next year I think we will draft the best young midfielder or trade for one like Treloar.

I don't understand this obsession of replacing Roo.
We need mid fielders above anything else { read Petracca }
to me the CHF position is in the dark ages like FF.
Gone are the days of the " go to man " in the forward line.

Good point.
You could have Carey And Dunstall down there but if your midfield is getting carved up it wont help you win a game.

For now Bruce is adequate and fingers crossed on Paddy - so I dont see replacing Roo as an issue in the medium term.