Steven

[Devilhead]

Really really disappointing - 11 tackles fair enough but 15 possessions doesnt cut it - needs to step up!!

[8856brother]

Really really disappointing - 11 tackles fair enough but 15 possessions doesnt cut it - needs to step up!!

Needs help. Midfield is getting slaughtered. 11 tackles is significant. Shows he's at least having a crack and not just cruising. Needs to clean up his ball use.

[ralphsmith]

Hayes - Harvey - Dal Santo ..........DAYLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ...............Armitage - Steven...

Sadly, our current crop of midfielders are an absolute shadow of what we have been used to in the past decade.

[Con Gorozidis]

The Newnes in the midfield experiment isnt working.
I'd send Newnes back.
We will need a priority pick to get two new mids.
Maybe Webster on a wing and we might as well get Acres in for a few games.
Weller and Seb need to get back in as well.

[Devilhead]

Saying that Steven needs help is admitting he is nowhere near A-grade as some have purported

At the moment he is C-grade at best and icing on the top with his 11 tackles

At half a mill?? I expect a bit more

[8856brother]

Saying that Steven needs help is admitting he is nowhere near A-grade

How do you come to that conclusion? Our mids, as a group, are getting caned. Steven didn't have his best day. Who's suggesting he's the next Pendulbury?

[Con Gorozidis]

Saying that Steven needs help is admitting he is nowhere near A-grade as some have purported

At the moment he is C-grade at best and icing on the top with his 11 tackles

At half a mill?? I expect a bit more

Every single player on our list is over paid.
When you pay 95% of the salary cap and you are bottom two years in a row then this is a fact.

[perfectionist]

Saying that Steven needs help is admitting he is nowhere near A-grade as some have purported

At the moment he is C-grade at best and icing on the top with his 11 tackles

At half a mill?? I expect a bit more

I don't think we can blame him for not performing to his salary level, that is a function of the system that requires at least 95% of the salary cap to be paid to the players of each team, no matter how good they are relative to their counterparts in other teams. Whilst it's good news for the players concerned, it is one reason that teams (in Melbourne anyway) take so long to recover. Imagine that we only had to pay (say) 60% of the salary cap, and could average payments over three years. We could easily buy four or five high quality players over a three year period. This would allow quality experience from trades to blend with quality youth from the draft.

Jack was pick 42, and he has performed a little above the average, but not much. He is now in his 7th playing year with the club and will not get much better, particularly with his skills. His attack on the ball at stoppages is high class, but that's really where his strengths lie. He would have been handy as the fourth on baller in 2010 (but probably too young then), but he is never going to be in the top three mids of a quality team. The fact that he is the best that we have is indicative of our overall quality. If he remains our best over the next six years we can look forward of 6 years of losses.

[whiskers3614]

Saying that Steven needs help is admitting he is nowhere near A-grade as some have purported

At the moment he is C-grade at best and icing on the top with his 11 tackles

At half a mill?? I expect a bit more

I don't think we can blame him for not performing to his salary level, that is a function of the system that requires at least 95% of the salary cap to be paid to the players of each team, no matter how good they are relative to their counterparts in other teams. Whilst it's good news for the players concerned, it is one reason that teams (in Melbourne anyway) take so long to recover. Imagine that we only had to pay (say) 60% of the salary cap, and could average payments over three years. We could easily buy four or five high quality players over a three year period. This would allow quality experience from trades to blend with quality youth from the draft.

Jack was pick 42, and he has performed a little above the average, but not much. He is now in his 7th playing year with the club and will not get much better, particularly with his skills. His attack on the ball at stoppages is high class, but that's really where his strengths lie. He would have been handy as the fourth on baller in 2010 (but probably too young then), but he is never going to be in the top three mids of a quality team. The fact that he is the best that we have is indicative of our overall quality. If he remains our best over the next six years we can look forward of 6 years of losses.

You've nailed what I was trying to say in the other thread.

[skeptic]

I think this is an insanely harsh assessment

What this clearly shows is that we need at least one or 2 more ready made midfielders NOW to take the pressure off...

I'll wirte more about this later but as of right now we can't:
a) assess the quality of our forwards due to large periods of lack of supply, and periods of crappy supply
b) assess the quality of our defenders due to large periods of the team being overrun and inundated opposition forward movement
c) develop mids properly because our better mids are getting more attention then they should


If this sohws anything it's that Dal Santo was extremely harshly judged on this site

[Teflon]

calm down.

what this tells me is we need picks, high ones and we must make them count.

Guarantee success ?
No
Any other way?
No

I am absoluteky sure of 1 thing this year:

No point at all finishing 14th ish. Waste of time.

Look for the growth/efforts/glimpses of the future - wins will come later.

Be patient.

[The Fireman]

Stevens is a very good footballer in an ordinary side. The team will evolve and Stevens will take full avantage of it. Half way through next season we will see big improvement in the whole team.

This is my prophecy.

[longtimesaint]

Armo and Jack need more help in the midfield.
They need to recruit the best young midfielder in the draft or trade for Treloar or Sheil

[gringo]

calm down.

what this tells me is we need picks, high ones and we must make them count.

Guarantee success ?
No
Any other way?
No

I am absoluteky sure of 1 thing this year:

No point at all finishing 14th ish. Waste of time.

Look for the growth/efforts/glimpses of the future - wins will come later.

Be patient.

I don't think 14th to 18th makes a huge difference. Bontempelli goes okay and he would have been pick 5 or 6

[andrewg]

He would get a game in every other team in AFL. He is a very good player but needs help.

[Teflon]

calm down.

what this tells me is we need picks, high ones and we must make them count.

Guarantee success ?
No
Any other way?
No

I am absoluteky sure of 1 thing this year:

No point at all finishing 14th ish. Waste of time.

Look for the growth/efforts/glimpses of the future - wins will come later.

Be patient.

I don't think 14th to 18th makes a huge difference. Bontempelli goes okay and he would have been pick 5 or 6[/quote

Miss the entire point.

Dogs got Bontempelli cause others over looked him.

IF Chris Judd is in this years draft Im not interested in finishing 14th hoping he gets overlooked. Id like firest choice thanks - thats the benefit of pick 1....its choice with nothing in front of you. Sure, this can be got wrong........but thats another problem isnt it?

[Bluthy]

Stevens kicking lets him down. Pumping those stubby little legs and low centre of gravity give him great manoeuvrability. But those short legs seems to limit his kicking ability. He missed a couple of goals that could have given us a real spur. Likewise some of his passing was very average. Its stopping him going to that elite level. Unless he can turn it around somehow I think he'll only be a good player, not great. Do we have a kicking coach or is it left to Peta Searle as development coach?

I do wonder what will happen to Steven if Billings, Dunstan, Acres and the other genuine mids we draft over the next few years develop well. Will Jack be on the edge on the first unit midfield when he is 28 or will he find himself pushed out because of his poor kicking?

[realdeal]

/quote

Miss the entire point.

Dogs got Bontempelli cause others over looked him.

IF Chris Judd is in this years draft Im not interested in finishing 14th hoping he gets overlooked. Id like firest choice thanks - thats the benefit of pick 1....its choice with nothing in front of you. Sure, this can be got wrong........but thats another problem isnt it?[/quote]

Unfortunately we were one of the teams that overlooked him.

[saintspremiers]

Stevens is a very good footballer in an ordinary side. The team will evolve and Stevens will take full avantage of it. Half way through next season we will see big improvement in the whole team.

This is my prophecy.

Agree

But #jackbashers like perfectionist will not listen

[plugger66]

Amazing thread. Firstly Jack isn't in control of what he receives. If he gets paid big money its because either the club think he is worth it or we just need to get to 95% and he is now our best player so he gets the most. Most would be overpaid at our club anyway but lets just look at the four games this year to see how he is going.

In the first 2 games the coaches gave him votes so they thought he was doing ok. Havent seen the coaches votes last week but he may not have got votes but he was clearly in our best 2 players. Yesterday it is my guess everyone had him best player at quarter time and probably even till half time. How was the club going at that stage. Yep we were winning. He was doing this despite being the only mid to be tagged. Armo who probably ended up being in our best 3 players was struggling at that stage. Yep Jack second half was poor. Im sure he would concede that and as such the side were shocking even though Armo had a great second half. Could be coincidence or could be Jack is vital. Jack is having a very solid year. Probably leading the B&F with Armo. I would suggest he is going well so I think the thread is a little silly. That is all.

[whiskers3614]

Who would Steven and Armitage get a game ahead of at Freo, Port, Hawks or Swans?
Yes they are far and away our best, but that is the problem.
For us to be any good we need at least 3 better midfielders than either of them.

[plugger66]

Who would Steven and Armitage get a game ahead of at Freo, Port, Hawks or Swans?
Yes they are far and away our best, but that is the problem.
For us to be any good we need at least 3 better midfielders than either of them.

Steven would get a game at any club in the AFL and would do a great job. Probably better than he does now because he would be the second, third or fourth mid. Armo im not so sure because of his pace.

[spert]

Midfield is B-, and Steven and Armo are triers but nowhere near elite, so don't expect much more.

[plugger66]

Midfield is B-, and Steven and Armo are triers but nowhere near elite, so don't expect much more.

Steven is an A grader and would play at every side in the AFL. Armo is now a B+ and would play in most sides in the AFL. The rest are young or just not good enough. The very reason we are struggling.

[saintsRrising]

Steven is a very good break away player. Bottom line at present though is that we have a very poor mifield, and that makes it harder fora player like Steven.

Opposition coaches also know that they mainly can focus on curtailing Steven and Armo.

But yes for Steven to be truly elite he needs to use the ball better.