poor recruiting?

[anthony_13]

Anyone think our new players would be the future of the club?
Pick 3 Billings hasn't really shown a lot.. his disposal is poor, he seems to light and easily gets pushed around. big mistake for me, overated, could've picked the bont

Rookie Draft Saad - hasn't show enough either.. he doesn't get the ball enough and what was the point in drafting him when we drafted Lonie, our recruiting department seems lazy considering that melbourne got a gun vandenBerg in the rookie draft.. minchington could be playing instead!!

Dunstan - showed a lot last year.. not as good this year, possibly from a limited pre season?

Paddy- should be playing the VFL and developing!! clearly not ready so why force it? hopefully he will be a good player for us, seems like a Josh Kennedy type from WCE to me

Acres - anyone know how he's going?

Sinclair- our first pick in the rookie draft looks to be a great pickup.. seems to have good skills and DISPOSAL which we lack.. seems to be better than his best mate billings as well

Lonie- looks like a great pickup, good skills, smarts

Newnes- should go back to defense

Geary - shouldn't be captain if he can't kick, tough, courageous and a true warrior but can't kick

Melbourne's recruiting has been better in the past 2 years than ours.. their youngsters look a lot better than ours

I hope our recruiting will bring us to a succesful players but the players we've recruited seem to lack PACE and DISPOSAL!! Our midfield is horrible, no talent around.. seems to just be Armo and Steven, tho steven didn't have a great day today

[Kernal75]

Pretty easy to judge kids after less than 20 games. We're a bottom 2 side, there is no silver bullet. Judge them after they've played 100 games

[Old Mate]

Billings has played 19 career games and is averaging 20 touches a game this year.

Dunstan not many more games averaging 19 touches a game.

Paddy along with Hugh Goddard is a work in progress. Big blokes take a while and they've only entered the system. Patience.

Acres has all the tools to be a star. He's been among the best in the two's and was emergency this week.

Lonie, Sinclair and Templeton are others that will forge good careers. Lonie looks something special.

I don't really understand you question this bunch? They are obviously the best bunch of recruits that have come through for over a decade.

[8856brother]

I have my concerns with Billings. Cripps looked a much better prospect today and it's only his 6th game. I stress the word TODAY. Hopefully Jack is just taking a bit longer. Before people mention Jack coming back off injuries, Cripps has come back from a broken leg.

We really need Jack and Paddy to be future stars, or at least A graders for this rebuild to work. Not much pressure. We must nail our top 10 picks.

[MC Gusto]

Ridiculous op and thread in general! Billings has been great and was good today with 22 possessions and a goal..a great goal at that.
Dunstan also kicked a beauty and has been solid this season

[Bluthy]

Jesus Christ about Billings. He tore it up last year as forward. Now he's starting to the learn the midfield and you expect him to what - be able to poll 3 votes with a limited body size and shape. He showed more creativity out there than any other mid in our side. And that's with legs that probably feel like jelly when he's not used to running those sort of distances. He made some bad errors and missed targets but he's actually able to spot the targets and then have the courage to go for it instead of the bobbly to-a-pack kicks others do. As he gets stronger legs and tank he'll be more consistent and accurate and will become extremely damaging. At the moment you can see he's a bit too tentative, used to the more delicate touch needed on a forward line.

I said you can't just flick a switch on Billings and make him a mid-fielder - its a whole other world to learn. The pressure comes from 360 degrees and takes getting used to to find your timing and rhythm. Can people show a little patience please. I'm extremely glad we have him. His goal showed the sort of class that is invaluable. He's still getting pushed off the ball easily but you can actually see him really get in there hunting the footy in there so I think he does have that instinct that. As he keeps building up his body he will become pretty damn effective.

I'm more than happy about Dunstan's development. I knew people would pot him and Billings as second year players which is ridiculous - he's learning what it takes to be a true AFL player. You can see him almost ready to dominate in packs but then can't quite get free or spills it or makes a bad handball. But another couple of seasons, bigger body, bigger tank and more composure and understanding of his teammates, and he'll take that step and become a really great mid.

If you can see already what Paddy Mac delivers then I can't help you. He is already causing headaches for defenders. I think he'll stay in the team. He's doing more for me than Bruce or Membrey and is the absoulute future of this club.

Sinclair has showed a bit but his opponent destroyed us in the second and third qtr. A lot of that could be not having the tank so as that develops hopefully he'll show more and more.

We've still got Goddard, Acres, Templeton, McKenzie to bring in so our recruiting HAS been good. I don't understand this sudden panic about our picks. Its the complete lack of good 100 game players who can use the footy that is killing us, not the young players. Our young players look the most dangerous which says everything.

[gringo]

Ridiculous op and thread in general! Billings has been great and was good today with 22 possessions and a goal..a great goal at that.
Dunstan also kicked a beauty and has been solid this season

No he's responsible for everything that's wrong in the world......I say burn him like a CJ dwarf.

[longtimesaint]

I am happy with the direction of the club and the recruiting.
It is in a similar place as 2002 when we had recruited Roo, Kosi, Joey, Dal and we still had Burke, Harves and Stewie.
We finished last that year but the building blocks were there.
At the present we desperately need our leaders to be playing and be able to rotate the kids.
Roo, Joey , Weller missing on top of Farren Ray and Gilbert is hurting us.

[cwrcyn]

Wait at least until the end of the year before consigning guys to the trash heap after playing less than a season of football.

For most players it takes four pre-seasons to get the tank to run out games, so when you have a heap of youngsters they tend to run out of steam in games.

Based on some of the sentiments on this thread we failed in recruiting Lenny Hayes, Sam Fisher, Sam Gilbert, David Armitage, Jack Steven and a few others. Under 20 games of football, none of those guys were ripping it up.

[Sanctorum]

I don't have a problem with any of the recruits we have brought to the club in the past 2 years, with the possible exception of Saad who doesn't possess the nouse to play anywhere other than close to goals. When our team is down and in rebuild as it is now, it is always frustrating to see other teams such as Footscray and Melbourne appearing to play better than the Saints - fact is that St Kilda had very few experienced players on the field against Carlton, and without Riewoldt and Montagna lacked leadership. So as disappointing as it was to see the 4 goal lead slip after 1/4 time, we should not be surprised - it was bound to happen and they will all learn from this experience. As in last week's game, it was a case of Men v Boys today and there is no quick-fix to turn this around.

So look for the positives as the new look Saints develop in the next 2 years, and above all keep the faith!!!

[longtimesaint]

Re-building after bottoming out was always going to take time.
We are seeing good quarters or a half and we will win the odd upset match.
We can't expect any more this year.

[Con Gorozidis]

I am not going to stick the boots in. But for balance we need to also accept that there are no guarantees the 2000 experience will be repeated.
Some people seem to think it is only a matter of being patient and that history will repeat itself and the 2000-2010 cycle will repeat.
This is not certain. Different players and different circumstances.
I think sides like Carlton have just thought history would repeat and they would be back up the top. It doesnt work like that.

If anything the model is the Pies. They won the flag in 2010. Committed whole heartedly to a re-build. Turned over a lot of players. Gave a lot of payers chances and backed youth. They remain competitive.

So far we have modeled the Blues by seriously over rating our talent and trying to have a bob each way, not backing youth and over rating your soldiers and sticking by gops hoping to somehow pinch some wins..

[longtimesaint]

I don't have a problem with any of the recruits we have brought to the club in the past 2 years, with the possible exception of Saad who doesn't possess the nouse to play anywhere other than close to goals. When our team is down and in rebuild as it is now, it is always frustrating to see other teams such as Footscray and Melbourne appearing to play better than the Saints - fact is that St Kilda had very few experienced players on the field against Carlton, and without Riewoldt and Montagna lacked leadership. So as disappointing as it was to see the 4 goal lead slip after 1/4 time, we should not be surprised - it was bound to happen and they will all learn from this experience. As in last week's game, it was a case of Men v Boys today and there is no quick-fix to turn this around.

So look for the positives as the new look Saints develop in the next 2 years, and above all keep the faith!!!

The Bulldogs are at least a year or two ahead in the re-build .
Melbourne has gone a different way and have recruited more experienced players in Bernie Vincent, Lamumba etc.
Our youth policy in recruiting should end up being better in the long run.

[8856brother]

Ridiculous op and thread in general! Billings has been great and was good today with 22 possessions and a goal..a great goal at that.
Dunstan also kicked a beauty and has been solid this season

No he's responsible for everything that's wrong in the world......I say burn him like a CJ dwarf.

Not quite, but he definitely needs to work on his field kicking.

[Con Gorozidis]

I don't have a problem with any of the recruits we have brought to the club in the past 2 years, with the possible exception of Saad who doesn't possess the nouse to play anywhere other than close to goals. When our team is down and in rebuild as it is now, it is always frustrating to see other teams such as Footscray and Melbourne appearing to play better than the Saints - fact is that St Kilda had very few experienced players on the field against Carlton, and without Riewoldt and Montagna lacked leadership. So as disappointing as it was to see the 4 goal lead slip after 1/4 time, we should not be surprised - it was bound to happen and they will all learn from this experience. As in last week's game, it was a case of Men v Boys today and there is no quick-fix to turn this around.

So look for the positives as the new look Saints develop in the next 2 years, and above all keep the faith!!!

The Bulldogs are at least a year or two ahead in the re-build .
Melbourne has gone a different way and have recruited more experienced players in Bernie Vincent, Lamumba etc.
Our youth policy in recruiting should end up being better in the long run.

I dont like whole 'two years ahead' talk as if there is some 'natural cycle' that all clubs follow.
It doesn't work like that.
Also there is nothing 'youth policy' about Dempster, Saad, Fisher, Gilbert, Schneider and Ray all being on our list.

[dragit]

I think the players will be fine, I am more worried about our supporters…

After years of watching the game, a lot of them appear to still have no f****** idea.

How were Dal Santo & Montagna going in the first 25 games?

How about Nick Riewoldt after 2 games?

There will nearly always be a player taken later in the draft that becomes better than your choice, same every year, for every club. At least the guys we have taken are looking like becoming genuinely good players. Let's wait and see what Billings looks like in a competitive team with 100 games under his belt.

All these dramatic reactionary posts at the moment are making me sick.

[magnifisaint]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

[dragit]

I dont like whole 'two years ahead' talk as if there is some 'natural cycle' that all clubs follow.
It doesn't work like that.
Also there is nothing 'youth policy' about Dempster, Saad, Fisher, Gilbert, Schneider and Ray all being on our list.

The dogs bottomed out about 2 years before us, so have 2 more years into their young guns.

How many young do you want in the side at once? More than half the side today were under 23 with less than 50 games to their name.

Do you want a whole side full of under 25's? regardless that half them would be hacks? We would get belted by 25 goals most weeks.

[longtimesaint]

I don't have a problem with any of the recruits we have brought to the club in the past 2 years, with the possible exception of Saad who doesn't possess the nouse to play anywhere other than close to goals. When our team is down and in rebuild as it is now, it is always frustrating to see other teams such as Footscray and Melbourne appearing to play better than the Saints - fact is that St Kilda had very few experienced players on the field against Carlton, and without Riewoldt and Montagna lacked leadership. So as disappointing as it was to see the 4 goal lead slip after 1/4 time, we should not be surprised - it was bound to happen and they will all learn from this experience. As in last week's game, it was a case of Men v Boys today and there is no quick-fix to turn this around.

So look for the positives as the new look Saints develop in the next 2 years, and above all keep the faith!!!

The Bulldogs are at least a year or two ahead in the re-build .
Melbourne has gone a different way and have recruited more experienced players in Bernie Vincent, Lamumba etc.
Our youth policy in recruiting should end up being better in the long run.

I dont like whole 'two years ahead' talk as if there is some 'natural cycle' that all clubs follow.
It doesn't work like that.
Also there is nothing 'youth policy' about Dempster, Saad, Fisher, Gilbert, Schneider and Ray all being on our list.

The youth policy relates to the recruiting each year and the last 2 or 3 years we have been faithfull to that.
You absolutely need to retain a nucleus of senior experience or else you will be thrashed, like GWS was in its first year or two.(100 plus point losses)
We will see the development of Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Goddard and McKenzie but it will take time.















9

[WinnersOnly]

We have a history (recent & past) of drafting flankers and believing they will become midfielders!

Apart from Dunstan in recent times for some reason we seem to over look natural midfielders. We now have too many small fowards who cant rotate thru the mids, we still have too many back flankers and too many players who are 'straight line' players who are poor in traffic and very one sided.

In short we have by far the worst and most unbalanced list in the comp. Lets hope AR and his team can improve things because I dont know how many years the club and supporters will cope with this?

[Saint wagga]

my only regret is letting BJ and Dal go...i think we could have kept them and still brought in talent. they wouldnt have stopped us bringing in our top 10 picks, (only2) and the rest of our young guns arent even that high a pick. trading out club champions and 'marquee' saints still doesnt sit well with me when talking about culture and legacy. would love to havr seen BJ be there for our next tilt...can someone tell me if any player brought in directly as a result of letting these two go is going to be an out and out gun? and again, i just dont see keeping these two affect our ability to get our top 10's, Big boy macevoy hadnt even played 100 games so much less issue letting him go!!

Thoughts on the above?

[longtimesaint]

We have a history (recent & past) of drafting flankers and believing they will become midfielders!

Apart from Dunstan in recent times for some reason we seem to over look natural midfielders. We now have too many small fowards who cant rotate thru the mids, we still have too many back flankers and too many players who are 'straight line' players who are poor in traffic and very one sided.

In short we have by far the worst and most unbalanced list in the comp. Lets hope AR and his team can improve things because I dont know how many years the club and supporters will cope with this?

We could have taken Petracca, but we held our nerve and went for the strong key forward that we need to replace Roo in the long term.
Next year I think we will draft the best young midfielder or trade for one like Treloar.

[Old Mate]

I don't mind that we chose McCartin, we really needed a quality tall forward and I believe that's what he will become, however we really needed a strong bonafide midfielder like Angus Brayshaw. He's strongly build kid that's only gonna get stronger and he loves the contested stuff. I jus hope we somehow get a priority pick and get two top 5 midfielders in this years draft, one silky outside mid and a contested mid like Brayshaw.

[Con Gorozidis]

I dont like whole 'two years ahead' talk as if there is some 'natural cycle' that all clubs follow.
It doesn't work like that.
Also there is nothing 'youth policy' about Dempster, Saad, Fisher, Gilbert, Schneider and Ray all being on our list.

The dogs bottomed out about 2 years before us, so have 2 more years into their young guns.

How many young do you want in the side at once? More than half the side today were under 23 with less than 50 games to their name.

Do you want a whole side full of under 25's? regardless that half them would be hacks? We would get belted by 25 goals most weeks.

No I think each person should be judged on their individual merits and there should be integrity at the selection table. When there is parity - then go the younger player.

Comparing us to the Dogs isn't helpful as they have completely different individuals.

[The Fireman]

Poor supporters?