Some Perspective

[Bunk_Moreland]

I have no problem if we go down fighting by 10 goals if they were the better team. What I can't handle is deliberate lack of effort.

Who said anything about lack of effort? Think you are overreading the OP

We weren't better off getting Billings over the Dogs who won a few more matches in the end and got Bontempelli, I'm not sure if many number 1 picks turn out any better than the other top 5 picks either.

Seemed to have gone off on some strange tangent here but I will respond. A bit early to categorically say Bont is a better player than Billings. I heard the same thing years ago when Hawks took Hodge over Judd.

Judd may well be the "better" player, but would the hawks fans swap him for Hodge?

Anyway this is a supposition that we somehow "tanked".

I would like to know the games where we didn't try. Even getting slaughtered by the hawks, they were trying. They were hopeless and got completely smashed, but I saw effort.

We were a genuine 18th placed team last year. probably as bad a team as I have seen at the Saints. We didn't need to tank.

Tony has mentioned a few times words to the effect of us not really wanting to do well this year.

Words to the effect or your intrepretion to suit your argument?

Have some pride Saints, play hard and get free agents lining up not accept mediocrity in the hope of getting a priority pick. Plenty of coaches say it's very hard to come out of a losing culture.

Classic straw man argument. Where is the lack of pride? All the young players who refused to sign last year? The efforts in the first two games this year, especially after so called experts predicted we wouldn't win a game this year?

Show me this "acceptance of mediocrity? Tell me where the team has not tried or made an effort.

I find your spurious assertions insulting not only to the players and administration, but to the supporters.

Really your post on this thread have been deplorable.

Unless you can show us the lack of effort, lack of pride, and accepting mediocrity, you are just sounding like a shoutey hysteric with nothing but empty platitudes and false assertions.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Let's be honest, Gold Coast were a complete rabble, their pressure on the ball carrier was Melbourne-like crica 2010-2013.

yes they were poor, but our pressure on them was pretty good

[saintspremiers]

Let's be honest, Gold Coast were a complete rabble, their pressure on the ball carrier was Melbourne-like crica 2010-2013.

yes they were poor, but our pressure on them was pretty good

They were worse than poor. Rocket hosed down expectations, tony has, and now Yablett has been put to pasture.

I'm thinking it was more them not trying and/or dysfunctional that allowed us to play so well.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Let's be honest, Gold Coast were a complete rabble, their pressure on the ball carrier was Melbourne-like crica 2010-2013.

yes they were poor, but our pressure on them was pretty good

They were worse than poor. Rocket hosed down expectations, tony has, and now Yablett has been put to pasture.

I'm thinking it was more them not trying and/or dysfunctional that allowed us to play so well.

Made us tackle harass, mark and structure so well did it?

OK then, we are total crap and the only time we will ever win a game is when the opposition plays poorly.

Don't ever let it be said that our team played well

[PJ]

I think 47 years as a saints supporter gives me plenty of perspective and I get what Tony's saying but I don't think going into a winnable game with some enthusiasm is cause for alarm. If we get beat then we get beat as long as the effort is there, but I watch every week with the hope of victory.

I'm not sure that anyone has a real and fully formed understanding of exactly where we are as a team. Over the last 2 years we have had too little time as a group with new players, injuries and changing coaching staff to get a true reading.

I see good signs so far and can appreciate the level of planning that has gone into getting us where we are so I'm intending to watch this Friday with the same excitement that I had when I went to my first saints games.

[plugger66]

I cant believe some of the comments on here from a simple OP. We will be trying this Friday like last Saturday but due to consecutive 6 day breaks some players wont do a lot of training this week and others will just struggle because they are young and inconsistent. The following week we have an 8 day break so some players will train harder and be more ready for that game. That doesn't mean we are taking. It means we are looking after players because of the circumstances and that may mean we are better prepared the following week against Carlton. The players will be trying this week like they did last week. The coaching panel will be trying this week like they did last week. The preparation may not be as good this week as last week because of the heat and 6 day break.

[The Fireman]

Let's be honest, Gold Coast were a complete rabble, their pressure on the ball carrier was Melbourne-like crica 2010-2013.

yes they were poor, but our pressure on them was pretty good

Agree Joff.............the media has only spoken about poor Gablett and haven't given the Saints any credit...good...let's fly under the radar a bit longer.

Our pressure and disposal was impressive and showed some real skill improvement and I am honest about that.

shame as a Saints supporter dragit, you didn't get that.

[cwrcyn]

I don't think anyone is under any illusion over how far we have to travel before we get to our destination

[dragit]

Let's be honest, Gold Coast were a complete rabble, their pressure on the ball carrier was Melbourne-like crica 2010-2013.

yes they were poor, but our pressure on them was pretty good

Agree Joff.............the media has only spoken about poor Gablett and haven't given the Saints any credit...good...let's fly under the radar a bit longer.

Our pressure and disposal was impressive and showed some real skill improvement and I am honest about that.

shame as a Saints supporter dragit, you didn't get that.

In a thread about perspective, most people would understand that with less pressure you are more likely to execute skills better, maybe not the fireman?

Gold Coast have just lost 2 games to last year bottom 2 teams, being a saints supporter has nothing to do with recognising how badly they are playing.

We looked great, but I'm not sure that means a lot against a team clearly out of sorts. I certainly enjoyed it, but I think it means little in the big picture.

[The Fireman]

Let's be honest, Gold Coast were a complete rabble, their pressure on the ball carrier was Melbourne-like crica 2010-2013.

yes they were poor, but our pressure on them was pretty good

Agree Joff.............the media has only spoken about poor Gablett and haven't given the Saints any credit...good...let's fly under the radar a bit longer.

Our pressure and disposal was impressive and showed some real skill improvement and I am honest about that.

shame as a Saints supporter dragit, you didn't get that.

In a thread about perspective, most people would understand that with less pressure you are more likely to execute skills better, maybe not the fireman?

Gold Coast have just lost 2 games to last year bottom 2 teams, being a saints supporter has nothing to do with recognising how badly they are playing.

We looked great, but I'm not sure that means a lot against a team clearly out of sorts. I certainly enjoyed it, but I think it means little in the big picture.

Skills are Skills...over the last year we watched poor skill while not under pressure ...this game showed that we had skill. By Foot and hand, not to mention better marking and tackling, these things are hard to downplay.


The Firemans perspective is a positive one.

[dragit]

The Firemans perspective is a positive one.

I can respect that.

[Bunk_Moreland]

The Firemans perspective is a positive one.

I can respect that.

I understand both arguments.

Sure the pressure was down. we saw a top four team last year let the pressure off by a 5% (Freo that is) and we belted them by 10 goals.

Suns were pretty terrible, thought we had swapped jumpers TBH, because our skills were so good.

The one passage of play that really excited me was the Mav Weller swooping through the centre square, firing out a pin point 20-25 metre handball to Jack Newness in full flight who them kicked across his body 45-50 metres to an unmarked Curran 40 metres out from goal, who duly converted.

That was not lack of pressure, it was great ruckwork, roving, footpassing and converting.

There were plenty of occasions like that on Saturday night.

With more pressure our skills wont be as good. Conversely, if our pressure was less, Gold Coast's skills would have been better.

[Sainternist]

I can't see why we can't give it a good crack against the Filth on Friday night. Certainly not anticipating a win. All I want is more of the same endeavor shown in the opening two rounds. A win certainly would be a massive scalp and would be most joyous, particularly since we haven't beaten them for five years. I also agree that the Anzac Day match in Wellington being crucial. Time to show the Kiwis that the tide is starting to turn.

[saintspremiers]

Last year we were 3-2 after the shock Essendon victory. We then almost beat the Bears in NZ, and then nosedived off a cliff for the rest of 2014.

This is the time of year for us to look our best.

[gringo]

I have no problem if we go down fighting by 10 goals if they were the better team. What I can't handle is deliberate lack of effort.

Who said anything about lack of effort? Think you are overreading the OP

We weren't better off getting Billings over the Dogs who won a few more matches in the end and got Bontempelli, I'm not sure if many number 1 picks turn out any better than the other top 5 picks either.

Seemed to have gone off on some strange tangent here but I will respond. A bit early to categorically say Bont is a better player than Billings. I heard the same thing years ago when Hawks took Hodge over Judd.

Judd may well be the "better" player, but would the hawks fans swap him for Hodge?

Anyway this is a supposition that we somehow "tanked".

I would like to know the games where we didn't try. Even getting slaughtered by the hawks, they were trying. They were hopeless and got completely smashed, but I saw effort.

We were a genuine 18th placed team last year. probably as bad a team as I have seen at the Saints. We didn't need to tank.

Tony has mentioned a few times words to the effect of us not really wanting to do well this year.

Words to the effect or your intrepretion to suit your argument?

Have some pride Saints, play hard and get free agents lining up not accept mediocrity in the hope of getting a priority pick. Plenty of coaches say it's very hard to come out of a losing culture.

Classic straw man argument. Where is the lack of pride? All the young players who refused to sign last year? The efforts in the first two games this year, especially after so called experts predicted we wouldn't win a game this year?

Show me this "acceptance of mediocrity? Tell me where the team has not tried or made an effort.

I find your spurious assertions insulting not only to the players and administration, but to the supporters.

Really your post on this thread have been deplorable.

Unless you can show us the lack of effort, lack of pride, and accepting mediocrity, you are just sounding like a shoutey hysteric with nothing but empty platitudes and false assertions.

Sorry mate, I will try to be positive like you from now on;) Anyway I'm not sure what role Tony plays at the club but he has either accidentally or on purpose positioned himself as a snitch with access from inside the club. I find the insights interesting but i imagine if he gets info he's sanctioned to spread it. If they are suggesting we are picking the games to challenge I'm pissed. He pretty much said we were going for draft picks this year. I want to play hard not pick games to try in. Sorry if you want listless crap and the occasional win so we get great picks in the draft I don't. If the Saints want to tank don't let it out at least, I'm not showing up otherwise.

[dragit]

gringo is on the gear i reckon… he's got that hard-roid-vibe happening... used to be such a nice positive young man, i can remember when he wanted every suburban player in the country on the list, now he wants blood.

[PJ]

I think we should all just stop posting because clearly making comments on a comment based forum makes people as mad as hell...and they're not going to take it!!

What a laugh commenting that others comments are not up to it.....

[dragit]

I think we should all just stop posting because clearly making comments on a comment based forum makes people as mad as hell...and they're not going to take it!!

What a laugh commenting that others comments are not up to it.....

just shut-up pj you low-life, know-nothing, internet anonymanomaly (yes i did just make up a word)

no-one tells me to stop commenting on comments, except the mods (& satchmo)

[Austinnn]

About Tony74:

He pretty much said we were going for draft picks this year.

Quotes? Links? Proof? Please, give us something. That's a pretty serious charge to lay on someone, I think you should back it up really, or take it back.

Call me an optomistic fool, but I believe we may beat the Pies. Especially if their captain doesn't play. I haven't been convinced by them since Mick left, they have some good players coming through but unlike us, they've got the previous generation clogging up selection. They've lost Beams and Harry O and Maxwell and it seems like a good time to play them.

As for us, a team so young gets carried along by momentum quite easily, so a win can do wonders. Can disposal be as effective under more pressure? No, but we still have scoring threat and a tight defence. I'm prepared to back us for an unlikely victory. I'm not scared to say I know very little about football and have been wrong more often than right, but I think we're going to enjoy this game.

[Playon]

Actually Tony, to put it into perspective, To win you need to believe you can win. Every week I see them run out onto the field I believe they "can" win even if I think they might not. It can come down to finding that little extra in yourself to get across the line and that comes from self belief.
If we justify our loses before they even happen we will lose. The only time we should accept a loss is when we've actually lost and then we need to combat that with determination. Win or lose we need to install a winning culture.

[Austinnn]

Actually Tony, to put it into perspective, To win you need to believe you can win. Every week I see them run out onto the field I believe they "can" win even if I think they might not. It can come down to finding that little extra in yourself to get across the line and that comes from self belief.
If we justify our loses before they even happen we will lose. The only time we should accept a loss is when we've actually lost and then we need to combat that with determination. Win or lose we need to install a winning culture.

Agreed. This post helped me understand Gringo's original POV. Still want him to back up his claim that Tony suggested they were playing for picks though.

[tony74]

I find the response to my post extraordinary. For the records......

I think we can win, the club thinks it can win, the players think they can win. But we/ they all realise Collingwood will put us under a great deal more pressure than GC did.
The NZ game is very important to us.
Our great club would never play for draft picks, and I have never suggested it.

Now that I have that off my chest I'll go back to discussing the game plan with Richo.

[saint6709]

I find the response to my post extraordinary. For the records......

I think we can win, the club thinks it can win, the players think they can win. But we/ they all realise Collingwood will put us under a great deal more pressure than GC did.
The NZ game is very important to us.
Our great club would never play for draft picks, and I have never suggested it.

Now that I have that off my chest I'll go back to discussing the game plan with Richo.

[Austinnn]

I find the response to my post extraordinary. For the records......

I think we can win, the club thinks it can win, the players think they can win. But we/ they all realise Collingwood will put us under a great deal more pressure than GC did.
The NZ game is very important to us.
Our great club would never play for draft picks, and I have never suggested it.

Now that I have that off my chest I'll go back to discussing the game plan with Richo.

Is that before or after the meeting with Obama?

[MC Gusto]

What happens to this thread if we win?

Anyways hysteria aside if you read the op it does insinuate one game is more important to us than the other.

Do I have an issue with that if true? I honestly don't know by know to be honest. Half of me thinks of the business side of things and the strategic long term play and the other half thinks it should be the same effort, preparation and desire no matter the match.