Development of Forwards

[plugger66]

Looking at that list it reads like poor recruiting

Exactly. Piss poor recruiting has been a factor for as long as I can remember.

The Saints are too conservative and don't take a chance on many players who i believe showed glimpses of that x factor that champions and game winners possess.

Rioli is a prime example here as is Darling. Both players overlooked by our club.

Another two were on display in the Western Bulldogs v West Coast game. Both have blood relatives who were champions for the Saints, but were overlooked in favour of potential lesser but nevertheless solid players.

Of course I'm talking about Marcus Bontempelli and Tom Lamb.

Some of you will be upset, enraged even by my post. But truth hurts, and I'm entitled to my opinion.

Our other failing I again put down to the conservative elements within the club and the lack of daring. We don't (or in the past ,haven't) give(n) our young players a fair go or developed them properly. Cripps and Lynch are good examples here. Both are doing

exceptionally well at their new clubs, after being starved of opportunities down at the Saints.

I think if you are going to make statements knocking the club then get some facts right. Cripps wasn't starved of opportunities at all. Even Lynch when he went to Adelaide played the same amount of games in his first year as he did in his last year at the Saints. By the way if got lamb we missed Goddard. I thought he was related to a Saint. Cant have it both ways.

I can repeat your statement back to you. Get your facts right. We had already picked Goddard. We could have picked Lamb with our next pick instead of McKenzie.

You need to put your mind into gear before actually hitting the submit button.

Yes you are right and I am wrong. I suppose just like your statement about Cripps and Lynch and the hindsight with Rioli and Darling. By the way I hope McKenzie is better than Lamb but it seems after one whole game it could be a really ordinary pick.

[saynta]

Nice to see you admit to being wrong. I wasn't, by the way. Those two kids were never given a fair go and there's no hindsight involved with either Rioli or Darling. From memory most of the more knowledgeable posters on here would have picked those two before McEvoy or Cripps, players no longer at the club.

Interestingly, Hawthorn now have both McEvoy and Rioli while West Coast have Darling and Cripps.

Don't worry too much Plugger, I don't expect you to every bag the club or agree with any poster who does.

[plugger66]

Nice to see you admit to being wrong. I wasn't, by the way. Those two kids were never given a fair go and there's no hindsight involved with either Rioli or Darling. From memory most of the more knowledgeable posters on here would have picked those two before McEvoy or Cripps, players no longer at the club.

Interestingly, Hawthorn now have both McEvoy and Rioli while West Coast have Darling and Cripps.

Don't worry too much Plugger, I don't expect you to every bag the club or agree with any poster who does.

Can you explain why Cripps wasn't given a chance. That statement is clearly wrong. 100% wrong. And as I said about Lynch he played the same amount of games in his first year at Adelaide as he did in his last year at the Saints. And he was a year older. Funny that you didn't acknowledge that. Actually not funny because I have you pegged for someone who will never admit wrong. As for the other 2 players well they are just words and it cant be proved either way even though you were a member on here and never made a comment on them being recruited. By the way I bagged the club yesterday for not picking Hickey over Longer in yesterdays game. I did it without hindsight to. And it is interesting both clubs have our ex players. They obviously saw something in both of them. Now if are going to discuss this you need to actually answer simple questions. You do realise every single club passed on Darling and most passed on Rioli. Hindsight kings are always right.

[cwrcyn]

If Wright and White both turn out to be fine players then we'll have lost little in decision to draft Tom Lee, as the cost for getting him was dropping 12 places down in the draft order. We did not actually lose a draft pick in securing him.

Cripps was given a chance but wanted to go home. No fault of ours.

Darling had a history of issues, and although not quite in the Dayle Garlett category, most clubs thought he was a major risk. Based on the information available to them at the time, the club made the right call in not selecting him.


Tom Lynch was an obvious mistake. Too much credence given to the opinion and judgement of former players

[FQF]

Too early to write off Spencer. I think he will play a good game for Sandy soon, and then be upgraded. From there, it's his spot to lose and I expect that he won't lose it.

[saynta]

Nice to see you admit to being wrong. I wasn't, by the way. Those two kids were never given a fair go and there's no hindsight involved with either Rioli or Darling. From memory most of the more knowledgeable posters on here would have picked those two before McEvoy or Cripps, players no longer at the club.

Interestingly, Hawthorn now have both McEvoy and Rioli while West Coast have Darling and Cripps.

Don't worry too much Plugger, I don't expect you to every bag the club or agree with any poster who does.

Can you explain why Cripps wasn't given a chance. That statement is clearly wrong. 100% wrong. And as I said about Lynch he played the same amount of games in his first year at Adelaide as he did in his last year at the Saints. And he was a year older. Funny that you didn't acknowledge that. Actually not funny because I have you pegged for someone who will never admit wrong. As for the other 2 players well they are just words and it cant be proved either way even though you were a member on here and never made a comment on them being recruited. By the way I bagged the club yesterday for not picking Hickey over Longer in yesterdays game. I did it without hindsight to. And it is interesting both clubs have our ex players. They obviously saw something in both of them. Now if are going to discuss this you need to actually answer simple questions. You do realise every single club passed on Darling and most passed on Rioli. Hindsight kings are always right.

Not hindsight at all. I remember discussing with other supporters the hope that we would draft Rioli and Darling. I was actually devastated when we passed on him and picked a ruckman who had the ball hit him in the head the first time he went for a mark.

And I think others would agree with me that Cripps and Lynch were never given a fair chance at the saints. Anyway I don't feel the need to justify any of my comments to you. it's actually quite bizarre that you think I should.

Fully agree with you on the Hickey issue though. Must have missed your original comments where you bagged the club.

[saynta]

If Wright and White both turn out to be fine players then we'll have lost little in decision to draft Tom Lee, as the cost for getting him was dropping 12 places down in the draft order. We did not actually lose a draft pick in securing him.

Cripps was given a chance but wanted to go home. No fault of ours.

Darling had a history of issues, and although not quite in the Dayle Garlett category, most clubs thought he was a major risk. Based on the information available to them at the time, the club made the right call in not selecting him.


Tom Lynch was an obvious mistake. Too much credence given to the opinion and judgement of former players

Turns out it was all misinformation put out by a devious West Coast. There was only one minor incident. Anyone who did their homework would have discovered that. It was all refuted on here by a Western Australian supporter anyway. if he knew the truth, so should the club. No excuse for them not drafting him, IMHO. As I said, too conservative.

[plugger66]

Nice to see you admit to being wrong. I wasn't, by the way. Those two kids were never given a fair go and there's no hindsight involved with either Rioli or Darling. From memory most of the more knowledgeable posters on here would have picked those two before McEvoy or Cripps, players no longer at the club.

Interestingly, Hawthorn now have both McEvoy and Rioli while West Coast have Darling and Cripps.

Don't worry too much Plugger, I don't expect you to every bag the club or agree with any poster who does.

Can you explain why Cripps wasn't given a chance. That statement is clearly wrong. 100% wrong. And as I said about Lynch he played the same amount of games in his first year at Adelaide as he did in his last year at the Saints. And he was a year older. Funny that you didn't acknowledge that. Actually not funny because I have you pegged for someone who will never admit wrong. As for the other 2 players well they are just words and it cant be proved either way even though you were a member on here and never made a comment on them being recruited. By the way I bagged the club yesterday for not picking Hickey over Longer in yesterdays game. I did it without hindsight to. And it is interesting both clubs have our ex players. They obviously saw something in both of them. Now if are going to discuss this you need to actually answer simple questions. You do realise every single club passed on Darling and most passed on Rioli. Hindsight kings are always right.

Not hindsight at all. I remember discussing with other supporters the hope that we would draft Rioli and Darling. I was actually devastated when we passed on him and picked a ruckman who had the ball hit him in the head the first time he went for a mark.

And I think others would agree with me that Cripps and Lynch were never given a fair chance at the saints. Anyway I don't feel the need to justify any of my comments to you. it's actually quite bizarre that you think I should.

Fully agree with you on the Hickey issue though. Must have missed your original comments where you bagged the club.

You don't have to justify anything to me but if you are going to bag the club then we as supporters would suggest you get your facts right and they are clearly wrong with Cripps and Lynch no matter how many times you repeat yourself. I would suggest you know you are wrong about both of those so you come out with some silly statement about not having to justify yourself. As for the other 2 players well again its just words that cant be proven and its all hindsight and as you were a member here back then its strange you didn't have your opinion especially going by the posts lately. You aren't shy to have your opinion now even when your opinion is proven wrong by actual facts.

[cwrcyn]

I did an analysis of the draft a while back in relation to key forwards. From 2001 to 2009, there were only about 9 key forwards selected that went on to be top line payers (excluding father/son gifts). Two of them went to one club in a single year. Some of them were later speculative picks or rookie/scholarship players

If you're highly critical of St Kilda regarding the recruitment of tall forwards, you should check out the strike rate of other clubs, too, in that 2002 to 2009 period.

Check out these names

John Anthony
Beau Dowler
Darren Pfeiffer
Scott Gumbleton
Mitch Thorp
Shaun Hampson
Brent Renouf
Cale Morton
Jarrad Grant
Robbie Tarrant
Matthew Westhoff
Jack Watts
Tyrone Vickery
Jayden Post
Shaun McKernan
Tim Walsh
Jason Laycock

[Old Mate]

We should never have picked Tom Lynch at pick 13. Stewie Loewe gave a great reference being Tom's coach at Old Haileybury. I still couldn't believe we burnt such a high pick. Don't care he kicked 10 once....very unique circumstances vs a team of 18 year olds.

Spencer White at 25 was another strange pick as he probably would've been avail at our next pick. I was hoping and expecting us to pick Tom Clurey who we spent a lot of time on, a mad Saints supporter and was still avail. He will be a very good player IMO.

Not picking Darling....that arguments been done to death. Needless to say he was rated a top end talent. But many passed on him.

Tom Lamb apparently had/has a lot of attitude problems but is a clear talent. Could've easily been picked as early as 5. But again, a lot passed on him. He will be a star. I heard we would've picked him at 20 however with the surprise of Goddard avail we chose him instead. We were committed to McKenzie who we rated very highly and wanted his speed and skill.